Re: [9fans] compact form server

Re: [9fans] compact form server

[jmk]

There are several micro-ATX boards which take an
AMD64/Sempron/Turion (socket 754) if you are not
tied to the P4.

There are usually other considerations than simply
small-footprint. If that's what you want then you
probably also want it to be queit and cool because
you're not sticking it in the basement out of sight.
And will you have discs in it, will you run it with
a monitor, etc.

--jim

Re: [9fans] compact form server

[Skip Tavakkolian]

equivalent AMD process is just fine. it's mainly
the processing power.

it's to allow me to carry around a cpu+auth+fossil.
40G disks found in inexpensive laptops are plenty big;
1GB RAM, although either 256 or 512 MB would work.

if i could rip the display and keyboard out of an inexpensive laptop
and put it in a very thin case, i'd be satisfied.

> There are several micro-ATX boards which take an
> AMD64/Sempron/Turion (socket 754) if you are not
> tied to the P4.
>
> There are usually other considerations than simply
> small-footprint. If that's what you want then you
> probably also want it to be queit and cool because
> you're not sticking it in the basement out of sight.
> And will you have discs in it, will you run it with
> a monitor, etc.

Re: [9fans] compact form server

[LiteStar numnums]

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With everything that you're going through, wouldn't it be enough to simply
buy a laptop?

On 3/18/06, Skip Tavakkolian <9nut@9netics.com> wrote:
>
> equivalent AMD process is just fine. it's mainly
> the processing power.
>
> it's to allow me to carry around a cpu+auth+fossil.
> 40G disks found in inexpensive laptops are plenty big;
> 1GB RAM, although either 256 or 512 MB would work.
>
> if i could rip the display and keyboard out of an inexpensive laptop
> and put it in a very thin case, i'd be satisfied.
>
> > There are several micro-ATX boards which take an
> > AMD64/Sempron/Turion (socket 754) if you are not
> > tied to the P4.
> >
> > There are usually other considerations than simply
> > small-footprint. If that's what you want then you
> > probably also want it to be queit and cool because
> > you're not sticking it in the basement out of sight.
> > And will you have discs in it, will you run it with
> > a monitor, etc.
>
>


--
Nietzsche's first step is to accept what he knows. Atheism for him goes
without saying and is "contructive and
radical". Nietzsche's supreme vocation, so he says, is to provoke a kind of
crisis and a final decision about the
problem of atheism. The world continues on its course at random and there is
nothing final about it. Thus God
is useless, since He wants nothing in particular. If he wanted something --
and here we recognize the traditional
forumlation of the problem of evil -- He would have to assume responsiblity
for "a sum total of pain and inconsistency
which would debase the entire value of being born."
-- Albert Camus, L'Homme révolté

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Re: [9fans] compact form server

[Ronald G Minnich]

LiteStar numnums wrote:
> With everything that you're going through, wouldn't it be enough to
> simply buy a laptop?

The amd rumba is small, has enet, runs off 5V. We're going development
here on them. They're quite nice.

ron

Re: [9fans] compact form server

[LiteStar numnums]

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But still, with this:
>if i could rip the display and keyboard out of an inexpensive laptop
>and put it in a very thin case, i'd be satisfied.
If you're going to rip apart an inexpensive laptop to utilise the display &
keyboard, to attatch it
to an inexpensive server... wouldn't it be easier to start with an
inexpensive laptop. I presume that
we're not setting this up for great lengths of time at any given location.
Since AMD laptops can be
had (relatively) cheap, I think it would be easier to use than all the work
that he was thinking
(especially given the connections that most laptops use for lcd...).
On 3/20/06, Ronald G Minnich <rminnich@lanl.gov> wrote:
>
> LiteStar numnums wrote:
> > With everything that you're going through, wouldn't it be enough to
> > simply buy a laptop?
>
> The amd rumba is small, has enet, runs off 5V. We're going development
> here on them. They're quite nice.
>
> ron
>



--
Nietzsche's first step is to accept what he knows. Atheism for him goes
without saying and is "contructive and
radical". Nietzsche's supreme vocation, so he says, is to provoke a kind of
crisis and a final decision about the
problem of atheism. The world continues on its course at random and there is
nothing final about it. Thus God
is useless, since He wants nothing in particular. If he wanted something --
and here we recognize the traditional
forumlation of the problem of evil -- He would have to assume responsiblity
for "a sum total of pain and inconsistency
which would debase the entire value of being born."
-- Albert Camus, L'Homme révolté

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Re: [9fans] compact form server

[Skip Tavakkolian]

>>if i could rip the display and keyboard out of an inexpensive laptop
>>and put it in a very thin case, i'd be satisfied.
> If you're going to rip apart an inexpensive laptop to utilise the display &
> keyboard, to attatch it
> to an inexpensive server... wouldn't it be easier to start with an
> inexpensive laptop. I presume that
> we're not setting this up for great lengths of time at any given location.
> Since AMD laptops can be
> had (relatively) cheap, I think it would be easier to use than all the work
> that he was thinking
> (especially given the connections that most laptops use for lcd...).

no, it's the other way round.  i want a very small server.  it needs
to have the same cpu/storage/memory config as the typical laptop, but
doesn't need the display or the keyboard.  it would be sufficiently
small to have a black box the size of a laptop but smaller thickness
(because no display or keyboard)

Re: [9fans] compact form server

[jmk]

On Mon Mar 20 13:05:30 EST 2006, 9nut@9netics.com wrote:
> ...
> no, it's the other way round.  i want a very small server.  it needs
> to have the same cpu/storage/memory config as the typical laptop, but
> doesn't need the display or the keyboard.  it would be sufficiently
> small to have a black box the size of a laptop but smaller thickness
> (because no display or keyboard)

Ron knows more about the very small space then I do, but it sounds like
you want more processing power than that. I doubt you will find a box
that is thinner than a laptop, there's no market for that I can think of.
The smallest you are likely to find is something that takes a Mini-ITX
form-factor board (or even Nano-ITX) and they will be more 'box' shaped
than 'slab' shaped. In those form factors your processor options range
from the Via Eden chips (slower but can be run fanless) up to the Intel
Pentium-M (laptop chip) and the equivalent AMD (Sempron/Turion). You'll
also have to consider the peripheral mix and power supply you want (some
of these boards can be run off an external laptop-style power supply).

mini-itx.com and mini-box.com (used to be ituner.com) should give you
something to go on.

--jim

Re: [9fans] compact form server

[Ronald G Minnich]

jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote:
> On Mon Mar 20 13:05:30 EST 2006, 9nut@9netics.com wrote:
>
>>...
>>no, it's the other way round.  i want a very small server.  it needs
>>to have the same cpu/storage/memory config as the typical laptop, but
>>doesn't need the display or the keyboard.  it would be sufficiently
>>small to have a black box the size of a laptop but smaller thickness
>>(because no display or keyboard)
>
>
> Ron knows more about the very small space then I do, but it sounds like
> you want more processing power than that. I doubt you will find a box
> that is thinner than a laptop, there's no market for that I can think of.
> The smallest you are likely to find is something that takes a Mini-ITX
> form-factor board (or even Nano-ITX) and they will be more 'box' shaped
> than 'slab' shaped. In those form factors your processor options range
> from the Via Eden chips (slower but can be run fanless) up to the Intel
> Pentium-M (laptop chip) and the equivalent AMD (Sempron/Turion). You'll
> also have to consider the peripheral mix and power supply you want (some
> of these boards can be run off an external laptop-style power supply).


As Jim points out, when all is said and done, it is very hard to beat
the power of a laptop with the lid closed. It's economics. The darn
things even have reasonable power. By the time you build an equivalent
box up out of equivalent parts, e.g. Digital Logic adl855pc, you've
spent 2x as much as the laptop ...

ron

Re: [9fans] compact form server

[Jack Johnson]

On 3/20/06, jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com <jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com> wrote:
> The smallest you are likely to find is something that takes a Mini-ITX
> form-factor board (or even Nano-ITX) and they will be more 'box' shaped
> than 'slab' shaped.

Yeah, without butchering a laptop or going to something designed for
embedded devices, you're probably stuck with something that's going to
be roughly 1U (if it were a rackmount device).  Figure just over the
height of a standard ATX faceplate.

Not cheap, but something like this might fit the bill:

http://www.hushtechnologies.net/ (see the medical systems)

AOpen also has a Mac Mini ripoff that would probably work, too.

-Jack

Re: [9fans] compact form server

[Dave Eckhardt]

SolarPC.com sells some reasonably thin Mini-ITX machines
(which run off of laptop-style 12V bricks).

Dave Eckhardt

Re: [9fans] compact form server

[LiteStar numnums]

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Ah, I took this too far because of the comment about destroy poor,
inexpensive laptops. HushPCs, SolarPCs, & the like might be a bit under
powered, but definitely
worth a look.

On 3/20/06, Skip Tavakkolian <9nut@9netics.com> wrote:
>
> >>if i could rip the display and keyboard out of an inexpensive laptop
> >>and put it in a very thin case, i'd be satisfied.
> > If you're going to rip apart an inexpensive laptop to utilise the
> display &
> > keyboard, to attatch it
> > to an inexpensive server... wouldn't it be easier to start with an
> > inexpensive laptop. I presume that
> > we're not setting this up for great lengths of time at any given
> location.
> > Since AMD laptops can be
> > had (relatively) cheap, I think it would be easier to use than all the
> work
> > that he was thinking
> > (especially given the connections that most laptops use for lcd...).
>
> no, it's the other way round.  i want a very small server.  it needs
> to have the same cpu/storage/memory config as the typical laptop, but
> doesn't need the display or the keyboard.  it would be sufficiently
> small to have a black box the size of a laptop but smaller thickness
> (because no display or keyboard)
>
>


--
Nietzsche's first step is to accept what he knows. Atheism for him goes
without saying and is "contructive and
radical". Nietzsche's supreme vocation, so he says, is to provoke a kind of
crisis and a final decision about the
problem of atheism. The world continues on its course at random and there is
nothing final about it. Thus God
is useless, since He wants nothing in particular. If he wanted something --
and here we recognize the traditional
forumlation of the problem of evil -- He would have to assume responsiblity
for "a sum total of pain and inconsistency
which would debase the entire value of being born."
-- Albert Camus, L'Homme révolté

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Re: [9fans] compact form server

[ems]

http://www.lippert-at.com/index.php?id=362 Seems like what you want. Its
EPIC size.

-- ems
On Mon, 2006-03-20 at 10:05 -0800, Skip Tavakkolian wrote:
> >>if i could rip the display and keyboard out of an inexpensive laptop
> >>and put it in a very thin case, i'd be satisfied.
> > If you're going to rip apart an inexpensive laptop to utilise the display &
> > keyboard, to attatch it
> > to an inexpensive server... wouldn't it be easier to start with an
> > inexpensive laptop. I presume that
> > we're not setting this up for great lengths of time at any given location.
> > Since AMD laptops can be
> > had (relatively) cheap, I think it would be easier to use than all the work
> > that he was thinking
> > (especially given the connections that most laptops use for lcd...).
>
> no, it's the other way round.  i want a very small server.  it needs
> to have the same cpu/storage/memory config as the typical laptop, but
> doesn't need the display or the keyboard.  it would be sufficiently
> small to have a black box the size of a laptop but smaller thickness
> (because no display or keyboard)

Re: [9fans] compact form server

[Wes Kussmaul]

Ronald G Minnich wrote:

> The amd rumba is small, has enet, runs off 5V. We're going development 
> here on them. They're quite nice.

Ron, I can't find anything on a rumba product on AMD's site (also tried 
rhumba), and googling rumba only gets messages from one Ron Minnich 
posted to the linuxbios list. And lots of robotic vacuum cleaners.

Can you give us a better vector?

-- 
Wes Kussmaul
CIO
The Village Group
738 Main Street
Waltham, MA 02451

781-647-7178


My uncle likes to say that the world’s biggest troubles started when the serpent said, “Try this fruit, and by the way if a bunch of people collectively calling themselves Arthur Andersen signs something it’s the same as if a person named Arthur Andersen signed it.” I don’t get the serpent and fruit part. Must be some Swiss mythology thing. He can be a bit obscure. 

                         P.K. Iggy
                         _How I Like Fixed The Internet_
                           (Tales from the Great Infodepression of 2009
                           and the prosperity that followed)

Re: [9fans] compact form server

[Ronald G Minnich]

Wes Kussmaul wrote:
> Ronald G Minnich wrote:
>
>> The amd rumba is small, has enet, runs off 5V. We're going development
>> here on them. They're quite nice.
>
>
> Ron, I can't find anything on a rumba product on AMD's site (also tried
> rhumba), and googling rumba only gets messages from one Ron Minnich
> posted to the linuxbios list. And lots of robotic vacuum cleaners.

sorry folks.

Go to the gx2 development site, which I don't have a good URl for right
now, and look at the development system. If i get a better URL I will
post it.

oops.

ron

Re: [9fans] compact form server

[erik quanstrom]

does it have to be a p4?

On Fri Mar 17 14:36:31 CST 2006, 9nut@9netics.com wrote:
> anyone has any recommendations for a server box (p4 @ 2+ GHz) with a
> small footprint, that can run plan9 cpu+auth?
>
> i'm looking for something smaller than a laptop, which is the current option.
>

[9fans] compact form server

[Skip Tavakkolian]

anyone has any recommendations for a server box (p4 @ 2+ GHz) with a
small footprint, that can run plan9 cpu+auth?

i'm looking for something smaller than a laptop, which is the current option.

Re: [9fans] compact form server

[LiteStar numnums]

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What about the Shuttle PCs? I use one here for NFS, FTP, CIFS & remote
backups. It's a P4 with 512MO RAM, &c. It's not running Plan9, but you could
definitely try one of the various ones.

On 3/17/06, Skip Tavakkolian <9nut@9netics.com> wrote:
>
> anyone has any recommendations for a server box (p4 @ 2+ GHz) with a
> small footprint, that can run plan9 cpu+auth?
>
> i'm looking for something smaller than a laptop, which is the current
> option.
>
>


--
Nietzsche's first step is to accept what he knows. Atheism for him goes
without saying and is "contructive and
radical". Nietzsche's supreme vocation, so he says, is to provoke a kind of
crisis and a final decision about the
problem of atheism. The world continues on its course at random and there is
nothing final about it. Thus God
is useless, since He wants nothing in particular. If he wanted something --
and here we recognize the traditional
forumlation of the problem of evil -- He would have to assume responsiblity
for "a sum total of pain and inconsistency
which would debase the entire value of being born."
-- Albert Camus, L'Homme révolté

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Re: [9fans] compact form server

[Jack Johnson]

On 3/17/06, Skip Tavakkolian <9nut@9netics.com> wrote:
> anyone has any recommendations for a server box (p4 @ 2+ GHz) with a
> small footprint, that can run plan9 cpu+auth?

Down the road, is there any hope of booting on an x86 Mac Mini?

-Jack

Re: [9fans] compact form server

[veritosproject]

On 3/17/06, Jack Johnson <knapjack@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 3/17/06, Skip Tavakkolian <9nut@9netics.com> wrote:
> > anyone has any recommendations for a server box (p4 @ 2+ GHz) with a
> > small footprint, that can run plan9 cpu+auth?
>
> Down the road, is there any hope of booting on an x86 Mac Mini?
>
> -Jack
>

Probably, just hack some code from the solution used to do that for
Windows (which means emulating a few BIOS calls).  An alternate
approach would be to rewrite the bootloader so that it would work in
EFI.

Re: [9fans] compact form server

[David Leimbach]

On 3/17/06, veritosproject@gmail.com <veritosproject@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 3/17/06, Jack Johnson <knapjack@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 3/17/06, Skip Tavakkolian <9nut@9netics.com> wrote:
> > > anyone has any recommendations for a server box (p4 @ 2+ GHz) with a
> > > small footprint, that can run plan9 cpu+auth?
> >
> > Down the road, is there any hope of booting on an x86 Mac Mini?
> >
> > -Jack
> >
>
> Probably, just hack some code from the solution used to do that for
> Windows (which means emulating a few BIOS calls).  An alternate
> approach would be to rewrite the bootloader so that it would work in
> EFI.
>
And support non MBR partitions (GPT).  Also likely needs either a VGA
BIOS or to use whatever it's got UGA instead.

I've got a hunch there's not much "just" about it.

Re: [9fans] compact form server

[Jack Johnson]

On 3/17/06, Skip Tavakkolian <9nut@9netics.com> wrote:
> i'm looking for something smaller than a laptop, which is the current option.

I suppose I can pass on Google's target marketing, too:

http://www.simplifiedinnovation.com/

-Jack

Re: [9fans] compact form server

[John Barham]

The new (shipping?) VIA boards
(http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/mainboards/mini_itx/epia_en/index.jsp)
include their x86 C7 chip with hardware SHA1 and AES acceleration
which would be useful for venti.  I don't know how compatible their
chip sets would be though.

  John


On 3/18/06, Skip Tavakkolian <9nut@9netics.com> wrote:
> anyone has any recommendations for a server box (p4 @ 2+ GHz) with a
> small footprint, that can run plan9 cpu+auth?
>
> i'm looking for something smaller than a laptop, which is the current option.
>
>