* [9fans] An excerpt from Syllable's description @ 2009-08-03 9:13 Balwinder S Dheeman 2009-08-03 15:28 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-03 16:09 ` John Floren 0 siblings, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Balwinder S Dheeman @ 2009-08-03 9:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans Computer scientists will tell you that their operating systems and tools are fine, because they like them to be complex. Companies will tell you that their machines or devices are fine, because they like to control them by hiding requisite device specifications and, or applications notes, even though you own them. Yet, some people remember a few machines from decades ago that were different. They got run over in the gold rush, but they proved that it is possible to build much more helpful machines. And if it was possible then, it is certainly possible now, because the hardware that computers are built from has become much more powerful. It's the software that is often not working in the interest of the owner. In the /Syllable/ project, we are using this power to help the owner instead of the scientists and the big companies. Please comment the above in a Plan 9 context. -- Balwinder S "bdheeman" Dheeman Registered Linux User: #229709 Anu'z Linux@HOME (Unix Shoppe) Machines: #168573, 170593, 259192 Chandigarh, UT, 160062, India Plan9, T2, Arch/Debian/FreeBSD/XP Home: http://werc.homelinux.net/ Visit: http://counter.li.org/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] An excerpt from Syllable's description 2009-08-03 9:13 [9fans] An excerpt from Syllable's description Balwinder S Dheeman @ 2009-08-03 15:28 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-03 16:09 ` John Floren 1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: David Leimbach @ 2009-08-03 15:28 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1565 bytes --] ,s/Syllable/Plan 9/g See that was easy. But seriously what are you after? Flamewar? Trolling? If you read 9fans you'll get more information than this little marketing excerpt about yet another obscure operating system. Dave On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:13 AM, Balwinder S Dheeman < bsd.SANSPAM@cto.homelinux.net> wrote: > Computer scientists will tell you that their operating systems and tools > are fine, because they like them to be complex. Companies will tell you > that their machines or devices are fine, because they like to control > them by hiding requisite device specifications and, or applications > notes, even though you own them. Yet, some people remember a few > machines from decades ago that were different. They got run over in the > gold rush, but they proved that it is possible to build much more > helpful machines. And if it was possible then, it is certainly possible > now, because the hardware that computers are built from has become much > more powerful. It's the software that is often not working in the > interest of the owner. In the /Syllable/ project, we are using this > power to help the owner instead of the scientists and the big companies. > > Please comment the above in a Plan 9 context. > -- > Balwinder S "bdheeman" Dheeman Registered Linux User: #229709 > Anu'z Linux@HOME (Unix Shoppe) Machines: #168573, 170593, 259192 > Chandigarh, UT, 160062, India Plan9, T2, Arch/Debian/FreeBSD/XP > Home: http://werc.homelinux.net/ Visit: http://counter.li.org/ > > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2077 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] An excerpt from Syllable's description 2009-08-03 9:13 [9fans] An excerpt from Syllable's description Balwinder S Dheeman 2009-08-03 15:28 ` David Leimbach @ 2009-08-03 16:09 ` John Floren 2009-08-03 19:29 ` pmarin 2009-08-04 1:29 ` LiteStar numnums 1 sibling, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: John Floren @ 2009-08-03 16:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Why do we have to care about every self-righteous pronouncement from every minor project out there? Why should we have to put everything into a "Plan 9 context"? If you want to relate Plan 9 to Syllable, look at their forums--it seems to have the same sort of problems as Plan 9. Lacking in drivers (a quick look showed that they don't have PCMCIA, WLAN, or PPP support), new users coming in expecting it to be like other operating systems (I'm looking at you, Balwinder) or trolls calling it dead, and in general an apparent lack of people writing programs for it. Syllable looks to be POSIX-compliant (I think) which is probably how they have Quake most of the other ported programs. John On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:13 AM, Balwinder S Dheeman<bsd.SANSPAM@cto.homelinux.net> wrote: > Computer scientists will tell you that their operating systems and tools > are fine, because they like them to be complex. Companies will tell you > that their machines or devices are fine, because they like to control > them by hiding requisite device specifications and, or applications > notes, even though you own them. Yet, some people remember a few > machines from decades ago that were different. They got run over in the > gold rush, but they proved that it is possible to build much more > helpful machines. And if it was possible then, it is certainly possible > now, because the hardware that computers are built from has become much > more powerful. It's the software that is often not working in the > interest of the owner. In the /Syllable/ project, we are using this > power to help the owner instead of the scientists and the big companies. > > Please comment the above in a Plan 9 context. > -- > Balwinder S "bdheeman" Dheeman Registered Linux User: #229709 > Anu'z Linux@HOME (Unix Shoppe) Machines: #168573, 170593, 259192 > Chandigarh, UT, 160062, India Plan9, T2, Arch/Debian/FreeBSD/XP > Home: http://werc.homelinux.net/ Visit: http://counter.li.org/ > > -- "Object-oriented design is the roman numerals of computing" -- Rob Pike ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] An excerpt from Syllable's description 2009-08-03 16:09 ` John Floren @ 2009-08-03 19:29 ` pmarin 2009-08-03 22:10 ` J.R. Mauro 2009-08-03 22:15 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-04 1:29 ` LiteStar numnums 1 sibling, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: pmarin @ 2009-08-03 19:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs I wonder if is possible that underground operating systems like Haiku, Aros or Plan9 should share some kind of knowledge database (not only the source code) about drivers implementation and don't try to reinvent the wheel. Haiku seems to do a great job, for example their network drivers are taken from Freebsd, the sound drivers from OSS4, etc. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 6:09 PM, John Floren<slawmaster@gmail.com> wrote: > Why do we have to care about every self-righteous pronouncement from > every minor project out there? Why should we have to put everything > into a "Plan 9 context"? > > If you want to relate Plan 9 to Syllable, look at their forums--it > seems to have the same sort of problems as Plan 9. Lacking in drivers > (a quick look showed that they don't have PCMCIA, WLAN, or PPP > support), new users coming in expecting it to be like other operating > systems (I'm looking at you, Balwinder) or trolls calling it dead, and > in general an apparent lack of people writing programs for it. > Syllable looks to be POSIX-compliant (I think) which is probably how > they have Quake most of the other ported programs. > > John > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:13 AM, Balwinder S > Dheeman<bsd.SANSPAM@cto.homelinux.net> wrote: >> Computer scientists will tell you that their operating systems and tools >> are fine, because they like them to be complex. Companies will tell you >> that their machines or devices are fine, because they like to control >> them by hiding requisite device specifications and, or applications >> notes, even though you own them. Yet, some people remember a few >> machines from decades ago that were different. They got run over in the >> gold rush, but they proved that it is possible to build much more >> helpful machines. And if it was possible then, it is certainly possible >> now, because the hardware that computers are built from has become much >> more powerful. It's the software that is often not working in the >> interest of the owner. In the /Syllable/ project, we are using this >> power to help the owner instead of the scientists and the big companies. >> >> Please comment the above in a Plan 9 context. >> -- >> Balwinder S "bdheeman" Dheeman Registered Linux User: #229709 >> Anu'z Linux@HOME (Unix Shoppe) Machines: #168573, 170593, 259192 >> Chandigarh, UT, 160062, India Plan9, T2, Arch/Debian/FreeBSD/XP >> Home: http://werc.homelinux.net/ Visit: http://counter.li.org/ >> >> > > > > -- > "Object-oriented design is the roman numerals of computing" -- Rob Pike > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] An excerpt from Syllable's description 2009-08-03 19:29 ` pmarin @ 2009-08-03 22:10 ` J.R. Mauro 2009-08-03 22:15 ` David Leimbach 1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: J.R. Mauro @ 2009-08-03 22:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 3:29 PM, pmarin<pacogeek@gmail.com> wrote: > I wonder if is possible that underground operating systems like Haiku, > Aros or Plan9 should share some kind of knowledge database (not only > the source code) about drivers implementation and don't try to > reinvent the wheel. Haiku seems to do a great job, for example their > network drivers are taken from Freebsd, the sound drivers from OSS4, > etc. I have wondered this, too. I think it would be especially hard for Plan 9 to benefit given the way it handles controlling devices. > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 6:09 PM, John Floren<slawmaster@gmail.com> wrote: >> Why do we have to care about every self-righteous pronouncement from >> every minor project out there? Why should we have to put everything >> into a "Plan 9 context"? >> >> If you want to relate Plan 9 to Syllable, look at their forums--it >> seems to have the same sort of problems as Plan 9. Lacking in drivers >> (a quick look showed that they don't have PCMCIA, WLAN, or PPP >> support), new users coming in expecting it to be like other operating >> systems (I'm looking at you, Balwinder) or trolls calling it dead, and >> in general an apparent lack of people writing programs for it. >> Syllable looks to be POSIX-compliant (I think) which is probably how >> they have Quake most of the other ported programs. >> >> John >> >> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:13 AM, Balwinder S >> Dheeman<bsd.SANSPAM@cto.homelinux.net> wrote: >>> Computer scientists will tell you that their operating systems and tools >>> are fine, because they like them to be complex. Companies will tell you >>> that their machines or devices are fine, because they like to control >>> them by hiding requisite device specifications and, or applications >>> notes, even though you own them. Yet, some people remember a few >>> machines from decades ago that were different. They got run over in the >>> gold rush, but they proved that it is possible to build much more >>> helpful machines. And if it was possible then, it is certainly possible >>> now, because the hardware that computers are built from has become much >>> more powerful. It's the software that is often not working in the >>> interest of the owner. In the /Syllable/ project, we are using this >>> power to help the owner instead of the scientists and the big companies. >>> >>> Please comment the above in a Plan 9 context. >>> -- >>> Balwinder S "bdheeman" Dheeman Registered Linux User: #229709 >>> Anu'z Linux@HOME (Unix Shoppe) Machines: #168573, 170593, 259192 >>> Chandigarh, UT, 160062, India Plan9, T2, Arch/Debian/FreeBSD/XP >>> Home: http://werc.homelinux.net/ Visit: http://counter.li.org/ >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> "Object-oriented design is the roman numerals of computing" -- Rob Pike >> >> > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] An excerpt from Syllable's description 2009-08-03 19:29 ` pmarin 2009-08-03 22:10 ` J.R. Mauro @ 2009-08-03 22:15 ` David Leimbach 1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: David Leimbach @ 2009-08-03 22:15 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3238 bytes --] Is that not still based on NewOS? http://newos.org/ At least I think that's the kernel they were using for a while (I ran newOS briefly a long time ago "raw". It had enough stuff to get you to a shell and an irc client from a boot floppy IIRC) That was done by Travis Geiselbrecht who worked at Danger on the Sidekick phone for T-Mobile, helped get the iPhone bootstrapped at apple, and is now at Palm working on the Pre :-) Dave On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 12:29 PM, pmarin <pacogeek@gmail.com> wrote: > I wonder if is possible that underground operating systems like Haiku, > Aros or Plan9 should share some kind of knowledge database (not only > the source code) about drivers implementation and don't try to > reinvent the wheel. Haiku seems to do a great job, for example their > network drivers are taken from Freebsd, the sound drivers from OSS4, > etc. > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 6:09 PM, John Floren<slawmaster@gmail.com> wrote: > > Why do we have to care about every self-righteous pronouncement from > > every minor project out there? Why should we have to put everything > > into a "Plan 9 context"? > > > > If you want to relate Plan 9 to Syllable, look at their forums--it > > seems to have the same sort of problems as Plan 9. Lacking in drivers > > (a quick look showed that they don't have PCMCIA, WLAN, or PPP > > support), new users coming in expecting it to be like other operating > > systems (I'm looking at you, Balwinder) or trolls calling it dead, and > > in general an apparent lack of people writing programs for it. > > Syllable looks to be POSIX-compliant (I think) which is probably how > > they have Quake most of the other ported programs. > > > > John > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:13 AM, Balwinder S > > Dheeman<bsd.SANSPAM@cto.homelinux.net> wrote: > >> Computer scientists will tell you that their operating systems and tools > >> are fine, because they like them to be complex. Companies will tell you > >> that their machines or devices are fine, because they like to control > >> them by hiding requisite device specifications and, or applications > >> notes, even though you own them. Yet, some people remember a few > >> machines from decades ago that were different. They got run over in the > >> gold rush, but they proved that it is possible to build much more > >> helpful machines. And if it was possible then, it is certainly possible > >> now, because the hardware that computers are built from has become much > >> more powerful. It's the software that is often not working in the > >> interest of the owner. In the /Syllable/ project, we are using this > >> power to help the owner instead of the scientists and the big companies. > >> > >> Please comment the above in a Plan 9 context. > >> -- > >> Balwinder S "bdheeman" Dheeman Registered Linux User: #229709 > >> Anu'z Linux@HOME (Unix Shoppe) Machines: #168573, 170593, 259192 > >> Chandigarh, UT, 160062, India Plan9, T2, Arch/Debian/FreeBSD/XP > >> Home: http://werc.homelinux.net/ Visit: http://counter.li.org/ > >> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > "Object-oriented design is the roman numerals of computing" -- Rob Pike > > > > > > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 4217 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] An excerpt from Syllable's description 2009-08-03 16:09 ` John Floren 2009-08-03 19:29 ` pmarin @ 2009-08-04 1:29 ` LiteStar numnums 1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: LiteStar numnums @ 2009-08-04 1:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3430 bytes --] They also have REBOL as a scripting language... It's an interesting project, forked from an interesting project (Atheos), but Gospodin Floren is correct: they have exactly the same problems with Syllable as 9fans have with Plan9, namely drivers & user expectations. Haiku, ReactOS, Hurd, &c &c have these problems as well. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 12:09 PM, John Floren <slawmaster@gmail.com> wrote: > Why do we have to care about every self-righteous pronouncement from > every minor project out there? Why should we have to put everything > into a "Plan 9 context"? > > If you want to relate Plan 9 to Syllable, look at their forums--it > seems to have the same sort of problems as Plan 9. Lacking in drivers > (a quick look showed that they don't have PCMCIA, WLAN, or PPP > support), new users coming in expecting it to be like other operating > systems (I'm looking at you, Balwinder) or trolls calling it dead, and > in general an apparent lack of people writing programs for it. > Syllable looks to be POSIX-compliant (I think) which is probably how > they have Quake most of the other ported programs. > > John > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:13 AM, Balwinder S > Dheeman<bsd.SANSPAM@cto.homelinux.net> wrote: > > Computer scientists will tell you that their operating systems and tools > > are fine, because they like them to be complex. Companies will tell you > > that their machines or devices are fine, because they like to control > > them by hiding requisite device specifications and, or applications > > notes, even though you own them. Yet, some people remember a few > > machines from decades ago that were different. They got run over in the > > gold rush, but they proved that it is possible to build much more > > helpful machines. And if it was possible then, it is certainly possible > > now, because the hardware that computers are built from has become much > > more powerful. It's the software that is often not working in the > > interest of the owner. In the /Syllable/ project, we are using this > > power to help the owner instead of the scientists and the big companies. > > > > Please comment the above in a Plan 9 context. > > -- > > Balwinder S "bdheeman" Dheeman Registered Linux User: #229709 > > Anu'z Linux@HOME (Unix Shoppe) Machines: #168573, 170593, 259192 > > Chandigarh, UT, 160062, India Plan9, T2, Arch/Debian/FreeBSD/XP > > Home: http://werc.homelinux.net/ Visit: http://counter.li.org/ > > > > > > > > -- > "Object-oriented design is the roman numerals of computing" -- Rob Pike > > -- And in the "Only Prolog programmers will find this funny" department: Q: How many Prolog programmers does it take to change a lightbulb? A: No. -- Ovid "By cosmic rule, as day yields night, so winter summer, war peace, plenty famine. All things change. Air penetrates the lump of myrrh, until the joining bodies die and rise again in smoke called incense." "Men do not know how that which is drawn in different directions harmonises with itself. The harmonious structure of the world depends upon opposite tension like that of the bow and the lyre." "This universe, which is the same for all, has not been made by any god or man, but it always has been, is, and will be an ever-living fire, kindling itself by regular measures and going out by regular measures" -- Heraclitus [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 4265 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2009-08-04 1:29 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 7+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2009-08-03 9:13 [9fans] An excerpt from Syllable's description Balwinder S Dheeman 2009-08-03 15:28 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-03 16:09 ` John Floren 2009-08-03 19:29 ` pmarin 2009-08-03 22:10 ` J.R. Mauro 2009-08-03 22:15 ` David Leimbach 2009-08-04 1:29 ` LiteStar numnums
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