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Thu, 25 Jan 2024 13:29:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([2600:382:411:a1b8:c0aa:a48e:d1b5:59a0]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x23-20020a25acd7000000b00dbed7110107sm3731970ybd.12.2024.01.25.13.29.36 for <9fans@9fans.net> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 25 Jan 2024 13:29:36 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: "Don A. Bailey" Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: Charting the Future: Envisioning Plan 9 Release 5 for the 9fans Community. [Was:Re: [9fans] Supported Notebooks] Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2024 16:29:25 -0500 Message-Id: <29326B71-DA4C-44CC-AE10-D6F633AC2F37@gmail.com> References: <611B016F9637C60CA0AE66FDAA35D0D0@eigenstate.org> In-Reply-To: <611B016F9637C60CA0AE66FDAA35D0D0@eigenstate.org> To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (21C66) Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: da0d975c-bbc8-11ee-a0d9-d47e2e5d66b7 Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UNDJmMTFlMDI2NWJjZmExOC1NNTYzODUwOTg5NTNmZTY0Yjg5MjM0?= =?UTF-8?B?ODQ1Pg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:M56385098953fe64b89234845:1:ckQPkfkfg1mjUv9gKF_HoC1zRNTA7QKIKNZb6jvBV3o That=E2=80=99s why I use quotes around mainline.=20 And what you stated is also a big reason I=E2=80=99m not interested in 9fro= nt. No idea what your direction is or what your interests are. I like a lot= of the things done by the core team, and the direction set by them. I=E2= =80=99m not interested in 9front.=20 Seeing a stable legacy release is imperative, in my opinion. That=E2=80=99s= all. I=E2=80=99d rather it wasn=E2=80=99t merged.=20 > On Jan 25, 2024, at 4:23=E2=80=AFPM, ori@eigenstate.org wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFQuoth Don Bailey : >> Direction comes from people writing code... but you write code for 9fron= t, >> yes? What does that have to do with mainline Plan 9? And what does that >> have to do with the direction set forth by the people that actually >> designed it? >>=20 >=20 > I'm not sure I understand the point of your question; I work on > 9front. There's nothing that qualifies as a mainline Plan 9 > since the lights turned off at Bell Labs almost a decade ago; > there are just forks like 9legacy and 9front. >=20 > The people that actually designed it stopped setting direction > years before Bell Labs shut down. >=20 > As a member of the Plan 9 Foundation, I would like to see other > people pick up other Plan 9 distributions, and take them in > other directions. >=20 > As far as I can tell, that involves code being written and > shared. >=20 >>> On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 7:20=E2=80=AFAM wrote: >>>=20 >>> This email suffers from a lack of semicolons; >>>=20 >>> Bell labs is extremely dead at this point, and >>> direction comes from people writing code; once >>> the work begins, people are sometimes willing to >>> help -- but only once work begins. >>>=20 >>> Quoth vic.thacker@fastmail.fm: >>>> Dear 9fans, as enthusiasts and experts of Plan 9, you are undoubtedly >>> aware of the unique position this operating system holds in the world of >>> distributed computing. Its influence on modern computing paradigms is >>> undeniable. In the spirit of continuing this legacy, the prospect of Pl= an 9 >>> Release 5 beckons, offering a pathway to not just preserve but also enh= ance >>> our beloved system. This essay aims to articulate the rationale for Pla= n 9 >>> Release 5, focusing on the need for modernization, the potential for >>> innovation, and the practical considerations that align with our shared >>> passions and expertise. >>>>=20 >>>> The Need for Modernization >>>>=20 >>>> Technological Evolution: >>>> We've all witnessed the dramatic shifts in technology since Plan 9's >>> last iteration. To keep Plan 9 at the forefront of utility and innovati= on, >>> it's essential to adapt and update our system in line with the latest >>> advancements in hardware, networking, and programming languages. This >>> evolution is crucial to ensure that Plan 9 remains an indispensable too= l in >>> our modern tech toolkit. >>>>=20 >>>> Security Enhancements: >>>> In our ever-connected world, the sophistication of cyber threats is a >>> reality we cannot ignore. It is imperative that Plan 9 evolves to inclu= de >>> cutting-edge security protocols, safeguarding our systems and the unique >>> work we do from emerging cyber risks. >>>>=20 >>>> Hardware Compatibility: >>>> The advent of new hardware architectures is an exciting challenge for >>> us. Updating Plan 9 to support these new platforms means not only >>> preserving its usability but also expanding our horizons to new forms of >>> computing, something we, as 9fans, have always embraced. >>>>=20 >>>> Fostering Innovation >>>>=20 >>>> Research and Education: >>>> Plan 9=E2=80=99s novel approach to system design and distributed compu= ting has >>> always been a beacon for academic research and education. A new release >>> would re-energize our academic endeavors, offering a modern platform for >>> continued exploration and learning, pushing the boundaries of what we c= an >>> achieve with Plan 9. >>>>=20 >>>> Community Engagement: >>>> A new version of Plan 9 stands to reinvigorate our community. This is = an >>> opportunity to deepen our engagement, attract new talent, and foster a >>> richer ecosystem around our shared passion. The development of Plan 9 >>> Release 5 could be a rallying point for our community, sparking new >>> collaborations and innovations. >>>>=20 >>>> Showcasing Plan 9=E2=80=99s Potential: >>>> Plan 9 Release 5 would be a powerful statement of our system's >>> capabilities, especially in burgeoning fields like cloud computing, IoT, >>> and distributed systems. This is our chance to demonstrate the adaptabi= lity >>> and forward-thinking design of Plan 9 to the wider world. >>>>=20 >>>> Practical Considerations >>>>=20 >>>> Resource Allocation: >>>> We understand the importance of efficient resource management in >>> bringing Plan 9 Release 5 to fruition. This means tapping into our >>> collective knowledge, drawing on community contributions, and possibly >>> exploring new partnerships or funding avenues. >>>>=20 >>>> Backward Compatibility: >>>> Maintaining backward compatibility is essential to honor our past work >>> and ensure a smooth transition. We must respect the legacy of Plan 9 wh= ile >>> charting a course for its future. >>>>=20 >>>> Documentation and Support: >>>> Enhanced documentation and support are crucial for the success of this >>> new release. As a community, we can collaborate to create resources that >>> will aid in adoption and usability, ensuring Plan 9 Release 5 becomes a >>> tool we can all be proud of. >>>>=20 >>>> Conclusion >>>>=20 >>>> The creation of Plan 9 Release 5 is more than a technological update; >>> it=E2=80=99s a reaffirmation of our commitment to a system that has lon= g been at >>> the vanguard of computing innovation. This initiative is a step towards >>> ensuring Plan 9's continued relevance, security, and functionality in t= he >>> modern era. It's an opportunity to broaden its impact in the realms of >>> research, education, and beyond. As 9fans, we have the passion, the >>> knowledge, and the community to make this a reality, honoring the legac= y of >>> Plan 9 while shaping its future. Let's embark on this journey together, >>> shaping the next chapter in the Plan 9 story. >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Thank you for dedicating your time and attention. >>>> --vic >>>>=20 >>>> On Thu, Jan 25, 2024, at 05:48, Jacob Moody wrote: >>>>> On 1/24/24 14:28, Michael Grunditz wrote: >>>>>> I have looked at the reform code and I like how it is done. I think >>> that it would be easy to use for porting 9legacy or in fact any system.= But >>> it is more work than a recompile. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Michael >>>>>=20 >>>>> It is certainly not drag and drop. Getting the arm64 compiler and >>>>> linker working on >>>>> 9legacy is already not what I would consider trivial due to drift in >>>>> /sys/src/cmd/cc. >>>>> So yes if you have enough understanding on how to work with and debug >>>>> the compiler, the linker, and >>>>> the kernel then perhaps you could call it "easy". I'll believe it when >>>>> I see it. >>>>>=20 ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T42f11e0265bcfa18-M56385= 098953fe64b89234845 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription