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From: "Frank D. Engel, Jr." <fde101@fjrhome.net>
To: Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>
Subject: Re: [9fans] licence question
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2022 19:08:42 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <2a8d4fc1-12a7-2149-1c1b-ec02e3ceae40@fjrhome.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Yf1nAs3+7BnyjJcp@wopr>

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Students who rely on that will never really learn.

 From my perspective, most supposedly modern systems have been a bigger 
waste of time than some of the older ones.

Windoze, Linux, etc. in some ways still have not caught up to features 
that Multics and Plan 9, among other systems, had to offer decades ago - 
and they are bolting things on that came naturally to the older systems, 
so they don't work very well in contrast.  They build complexity on 
complexity instead of leveraging a simple consistent approach that can 
actually be understood.

Multics was in some ways a conceptual precursor to today's "cloud 
computing" (in the sense that it was engineered to be a multi-tenant 
system with separate projects being billed for the resources they used), 
while also introducing the world to concepts such as access control 
lists (ACLs).

Plan 9 offers a level of network transparency and process 
interoperability that most of our "modern" systems don't seem to be able 
to get right, not to mention having been well-designed for working 
transparently across systems with differing architectures (SPARC, MIPS, 
etc.) out of a common file system.

If a student just wants to write business logic for some big company 
doing batch processing or wants to create web sites or some such then 
sure, let them stick with what is out there at the moment.  If they 
really want to understand computers and computer programming, they 
should try to learn from the ground up.  Being limited to "modern" 
systems won't get them nearly as far as being exposed to a range of 
ideas and different approaches that have been taken over time.


  “Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.”

―Edmund Burke


On 2/4/22 12:48 PM, Kurt H Maier via 9fans wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 04, 2022 at 09:30:26AM -0600, Kent R. Spillner wrote:
>> In your experience do students appreciate being told what's best for them?  ;)
>>
> In my experience needing to be told what's best for them is the defining
> characteristic of a student
>
> khm
>
>
> ------------------------------------------
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  reply	other threads:[~2022-02-05  0:09 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 61+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-01-27 22:43 ibrahim via 9fans
2022-01-27 22:48 ` hiro
2022-01-27 23:33   ` ibrahim via 9fans
2022-01-28  0:05     ` hiro
2022-01-28  0:42       ` ibrahim via 9fans
2022-01-28  0:46         ` ori
2022-01-28  1:14           ` ibrahim via 9fans
2022-01-28  3:23             ` Kurt H Maier via 9fans
2022-01-28 12:01               ` ibrahim via 9fans
2022-01-28 21:59                 ` hiro
2022-01-29 13:03                   ` ibrahim via 9fans
2022-01-29 13:24                     ` hiro
2022-01-29 14:08                       ` ibrahim via 9fans
2022-01-29 14:59                         ` sirjofri
2022-01-29 18:11                         ` Grant Defayette
2022-01-29 19:00                           ` ibrahim via 9fans
2022-01-29 20:43                         ` hiro
2022-01-29 21:32                           ` ibrahim via 9fans
2022-01-29 21:42                             ` hiro
2022-01-29 22:23                               ` ibrahim via 9fans
2022-01-29 23:14                                 ` sirjofri
2022-01-29 23:27                                   ` hiro
2022-01-29 23:36                                   ` ibrahim via 9fans
2022-01-30  0:08                                     ` hiro
2022-01-30  1:45                                       ` ron minnich
2022-01-30  2:18                                         ` ibrahim via 9fans
2022-01-30 21:00                                           ` ron minnich
2022-02-01 15:08                                             ` ibrahim via 9fans
2022-02-01 17:06                                               ` Dan Cross
2022-01-29 22:14                         ` Bakul Shah
2022-01-29 22:40                           ` ibrahim via 9fans
2022-02-04 15:30                         ` Kent R. Spillner
2022-02-04 16:17                           ` Grant Defayette
2022-02-04 16:29                           ` ibrahim via 9fans
2022-02-04 21:12                             ` sirjofri
2022-02-04 17:48                           ` Kurt H Maier via 9fans
2022-02-05  0:08                             ` Frank D. Engel, Jr. [this message]
2022-02-05 16:47                               ` hiro
2022-01-29 14:26                     ` David Leimbach via 9fans
2022-02-01 14:12                       ` Dan Cross
2022-02-01 22:47                         ` hiro
2022-02-02 13:22                           ` Wes Kussmaul
2022-02-02 16:25                             ` ori
2022-02-02 18:22                               ` ron minnich
2022-02-02 19:00                                 ` ibrahim via 9fans
2022-01-29 16:15                     ` Wes Kussmaul
2022-01-29 16:56                     ` Bakul Shah
2022-01-29 17:17                       ` ori
2022-01-29 18:14                       ` ibrahim via 9fans
2022-01-29 18:58                     ` cinap_lenrek
2022-01-29 19:23                       ` ibrahim via 9fans
2022-01-29 20:48                         ` hiro
2022-01-29 21:18                           ` Steve Simon
2022-01-29 21:34                             ` hiro
2022-01-29 21:43                             ` ibrahim via 9fans
2022-01-29 22:44                               ` hiro
2022-01-29 23:26                                 ` ibrahim via 9fans
2022-01-30  7:55                           ` tlaronde
2022-01-30 13:44                             ` ibrahim via 9fans
2022-01-30 13:56                               ` tlaronde
2022-01-28  3:14 ` Lucio De Re

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