[9fans] 8c "out of fixed registers"

[9fans] 8c "out of fixed registers"

[Federico G. Benavento]

hola,

I just did yet another python port, this one using APE,
because I wanted to see if I could get HG working
and for that I needed openssl (which I had just reported,
/n/sources/contrib/fgb/openssl.tgz)
It worked, but I had to hack /sys/lib/python/hashlib.py
to not try to import the sha512 module.

I can't build that module because 8c abort()s in
/sys/src/cmd/8c/txt.c:309

this is the file:
http://tinyurl.com/2zsjp9

Anyways, hg seems to work fine.


Federico G. Benavento

---
/bin/fortune:
After the paunch comes the dance.

[9fans] Fwd: 8c "out of fixed registers"

[Federico Benavento]

New attempt


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Federico G. Benavento <benavento@gmail.com>
Date: Nov 19, 2007 1:12 AM
Subject: 8c "out of fixed registers"
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu


hola,

I just did yet another python port, this one using APE,
because I wanted to see if I could get HG working
and for that I needed openssl (which I had just reported,
/n/sources/contrib/fgb/openssl.tgz)
It worked, but I had to hack /sys/lib/python/hashlib.py
to not try to import the sha512 module.

I can't build that module because 8c abort()s in
/sys/src/cmd/8c/txt.c:309

this is the file:
http://tinyurl.com/2zsjp9

Anyways, hg seems to work fine.


Federico G. Benavento

---
/bin/fortune:
After the paunch comes the dance.




-- 
Federico G. Benavento

Re: [9fans] 8c "out of fixed registers"

[erik quanstrom]

i get "server error" on the url you gave.

does the function that causes 8c to quit declare a large
number of "register int" variables?

- erik

On Mon Nov 19 11:47:17 EST 2007, benavento@gmail.com wrote:
> hola,
> 
> I just did yet another python port, this one using APE,
> because I wanted to see if I could get HG working
> and for that I needed openssl (which I had just reported,
> /n/sources/contrib/fgb/openssl.tgz)
> It worked, but I had to hack /sys/lib/python/hashlib.py
> to not try to import the sha512 module.
> 
> I can't build that module because 8c abort()s in
> /sys/src/cmd/8c/txt.c:309
> 
> this is the file:
> http://tinyurl.com/2zsjp9
> 
> Anyways, hg seems to work fine.

Re: [9fans] 8c "out of fixed registers"

[Federico G. Benavento]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 147 bytes --]

hola,

attached is the offending file

thanks


Federico G. Benavento

---
/bin/fortune:
Please log off, the computer is out to lunch.

[-- Attachment #2: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 3157 bytes --]

From: Charles Forsyth <forsyth@terzarima.net>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: [9fans] 8c "out of fixed registers"
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:14:53 +0000
Message-ID: <d89c8a7db4cdae5651a1384daea3dbf8@terzarima.net>

>does the function that causes 8c to quit declare a large
>number of "register int" variables?

it ignores you, and works that out itself.

usually the troublesome expression really does use
so many registers it needs to spill to memory, but doesn't.

[-- Attachment #3: sha512module.c --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 28921 bytes --]

/* SHA512 module */

/* This module provides an interface to NIST's SHA-512 and SHA-384 Algorithms */

/* See below for information about the original code this module was
   based upon. Additional work performed by:

   Andrew Kuchling (amk@amk.ca)
   Greg Stein (gstein@lyra.org)
   Trevor Perrin (trevp@trevp.net)

   Copyright (C) 2005   Gregory P. Smith (greg@electricrain.com)
   Licensed to PSF under a Contributor Agreement.

*/

/* SHA objects */

#include "Python.h"
#include "structmember.h"

#ifdef PY_LONG_LONG /* If no PY_LONG_LONG, don't compile anything! */

/* Endianness testing and definitions */
#define TestEndianness(variable) {int i=1; variable=PCT_BIG_ENDIAN;\
	if (*((char*)&i)==1) variable=PCT_LITTLE_ENDIAN;}

#define PCT_LITTLE_ENDIAN 1
#define PCT_BIG_ENDIAN 0

/* Some useful types */

typedef unsigned char SHA_BYTE;

#if SIZEOF_INT == 4
typedef unsigned int SHA_INT32;	/* 32-bit integer */
typedef unsigned PY_LONG_LONG SHA_INT64;	/* 64-bit integer */
#else
/* not defined. compilation will die. */
#endif

/* The SHA block size and message digest sizes, in bytes */

#define SHA_BLOCKSIZE   128
#define SHA_DIGESTSIZE  64

/* The structure for storing SHA info */

typedef struct {
    PyObject_HEAD
    SHA_INT64 digest[8];		/* Message digest */
    SHA_INT32 count_lo, count_hi;	/* 64-bit bit count */
    SHA_BYTE data[SHA_BLOCKSIZE];	/* SHA data buffer */
    int Endianness;
    int local;				/* unprocessed amount in data */
    int digestsize;
} SHAobject;

/* When run on a little-endian CPU we need to perform byte reversal on an
   array of longwords. */

static void longReverse(SHA_INT64 *buffer, int byteCount, int Endianness)
{
    SHA_INT64 value;

    if ( Endianness == PCT_BIG_ENDIAN )
	return;

    byteCount /= sizeof(*buffer);
    while (byteCount--) {
        value = *buffer;

		((unsigned char*)buffer)[0] = (unsigned char)(value >> 56) & 0xff;
		((unsigned char*)buffer)[1] = (unsigned char)(value >> 48) & 0xff;
		((unsigned char*)buffer)[2] = (unsigned char)(value >> 40) & 0xff;
		((unsigned char*)buffer)[3] = (unsigned char)(value >> 32) & 0xff;
		((unsigned char*)buffer)[4] = (unsigned char)(value >> 24) & 0xff;
		((unsigned char*)buffer)[5] = (unsigned char)(value >> 16) & 0xff;
		((unsigned char*)buffer)[6] = (unsigned char)(value >>  8) & 0xff;
		((unsigned char*)buffer)[7] = (unsigned char)(value      ) & 0xff;
        
		buffer++;
    }
}

static void SHAcopy(SHAobject *src, SHAobject *dest)
{
    dest->Endianness = src->Endianness;
    dest->local = src->local;
    dest->digestsize = src->digestsize;
    dest->count_lo = src->count_lo;
    dest->count_hi = src->count_hi;
    memcpy(dest->digest, src->digest, sizeof(src->digest));
    memcpy(dest->data, src->data, sizeof(src->data));
}


/* ------------------------------------------------------------------------
 *
 * This code for the SHA-512 algorithm was noted as public domain. The
 * original headers are pasted below.
 *
 * Several changes have been made to make it more compatible with the
 * Python environment and desired interface.
 *
 */

/* LibTomCrypt, modular cryptographic library -- Tom St Denis
 *
 * LibTomCrypt is a library that provides various cryptographic
 * algorithms in a highly modular and flexible manner.
 *
 * The library is free for all purposes without any express
 * gurantee it works.
 *
 * Tom St Denis, tomstdenis@iahu.ca, http://libtomcrypt.org
 */


/* SHA512 by Tom St Denis */

/* Various logical functions */
#define ROR64(x, y) \
    ( ((((x) & Py_ULL(0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF))>>((unsigned PY_LONG_LONG)(y) & 63)) | \
      ((x)<<((unsigned PY_LONG_LONG)(64-((y) & 63))))) & Py_ULL(0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF))
#define Ch(x,y,z)       (z ^ (x & (y ^ z)))
#define Maj(x,y,z)      (((x | y) & z) | (x & y)) 
#define S(x, n)         ROR64((x),(n))
#define R(x, n)         (((x) & Py_ULL(0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF)) >> ((unsigned PY_LONG_LONG)n))
#define Sigma0(x)       (S(x, 28) ^ S(x, 34) ^ S(x, 39))
#define Sigma1(x)       (S(x, 14) ^ S(x, 18) ^ S(x, 41))
#define Gamma0(x)       (S(x, 1) ^ S(x, 8) ^ R(x, 7))
#define Gamma1(x)       (S(x, 19) ^ S(x, 61) ^ R(x, 6))


static void
sha512_transform(SHAobject *sha_info)
{
    int i;
    SHA_INT64 S[8], W[80], t0, t1;

    memcpy(W, sha_info->data, sizeof(sha_info->data));
    longReverse(W, (int)sizeof(sha_info->data), sha_info->Endianness);

    for (i = 16; i < 80; ++i) {
		W[i] = Gamma1(W[i - 2]) + W[i - 7] + Gamma0(W[i - 15]) + W[i - 16];
    }
    for (i = 0; i < 8; ++i) {
        S[i] = sha_info->digest[i];
    }

    /* Compress */
#define RND(a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,ki)                    \
     t0 = h + Sigma1(e) + Ch(e, f, g) + ki + W[i];   \
     t1 = Sigma0(a) + Maj(a, b, c);                  \
     d += t0;                                        \
     h  = t0 + t1;

    RND(S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],0,Py_ULL(0x428a2f98d728ae22));
    RND(S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],1,Py_ULL(0x7137449123ef65cd));
    RND(S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],2,Py_ULL(0xb5c0fbcfec4d3b2f));
    RND(S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],3,Py_ULL(0xe9b5dba58189dbbc));
    RND(S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],4,Py_ULL(0x3956c25bf348b538));
    RND(S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],5,Py_ULL(0x59f111f1b605d019));
    RND(S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],6,Py_ULL(0x923f82a4af194f9b));
    RND(S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],7,Py_ULL(0xab1c5ed5da6d8118));
    RND(S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],8,Py_ULL(0xd807aa98a3030242));
    RND(S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],9,Py_ULL(0x12835b0145706fbe));
    RND(S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],10,Py_ULL(0x243185be4ee4b28c));
    RND(S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],11,Py_ULL(0x550c7dc3d5ffb4e2));
    RND(S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],12,Py_ULL(0x72be5d74f27b896f));
    RND(S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],13,Py_ULL(0x80deb1fe3b1696b1));
    RND(S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],14,Py_ULL(0x9bdc06a725c71235));
    RND(S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],15,Py_ULL(0xc19bf174cf692694));
    RND(S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],16,Py_ULL(0xe49b69c19ef14ad2));
    RND(S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],17,Py_ULL(0xefbe4786384f25e3));
    RND(S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],18,Py_ULL(0x0fc19dc68b8cd5b5));
    RND(S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],19,Py_ULL(0x240ca1cc77ac9c65));
    RND(S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],20,Py_ULL(0x2de92c6f592b0275));
    RND(S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],21,Py_ULL(0x4a7484aa6ea6e483));
    RND(S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],22,Py_ULL(0x5cb0a9dcbd41fbd4));
    RND(S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],23,Py_ULL(0x76f988da831153b5));
    RND(S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],24,Py_ULL(0x983e5152ee66dfab));
    RND(S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],25,Py_ULL(0xa831c66d2db43210));
    RND(S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],26,Py_ULL(0xb00327c898fb213f));
    RND(S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],27,Py_ULL(0xbf597fc7beef0ee4));
    RND(S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],28,Py_ULL(0xc6e00bf33da88fc2));
    RND(S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],29,Py_ULL(0xd5a79147930aa725));
    RND(S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],30,Py_ULL(0x06ca6351e003826f));
    RND(S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],31,Py_ULL(0x142929670a0e6e70));
    RND(S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],32,Py_ULL(0x27b70a8546d22ffc));
    RND(S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],33,Py_ULL(0x2e1b21385c26c926));
    RND(S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],34,Py_ULL(0x4d2c6dfc5ac42aed));
    RND(S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],35,Py_ULL(0x53380d139d95b3df));
    RND(S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],36,Py_ULL(0x650a73548baf63de));
    RND(S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],37,Py_ULL(0x766a0abb3c77b2a8));
    RND(S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],38,Py_ULL(0x81c2c92e47edaee6));
    RND(S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],39,Py_ULL(0x92722c851482353b));
    RND(S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],40,Py_ULL(0xa2bfe8a14cf10364));
    RND(S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],41,Py_ULL(0xa81a664bbc423001));
    RND(S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],42,Py_ULL(0xc24b8b70d0f89791));
    RND(S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],43,Py_ULL(0xc76c51a30654be30));
    RND(S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],44,Py_ULL(0xd192e819d6ef5218));
    RND(S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],45,Py_ULL(0xd69906245565a910));
    RND(S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],46,Py_ULL(0xf40e35855771202a));
    RND(S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],47,Py_ULL(0x106aa07032bbd1b8));
    RND(S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],48,Py_ULL(0x19a4c116b8d2d0c8));
    RND(S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],49,Py_ULL(0x1e376c085141ab53));
    RND(S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],50,Py_ULL(0x2748774cdf8eeb99));
    RND(S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],51,Py_ULL(0x34b0bcb5e19b48a8));
    RND(S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],52,Py_ULL(0x391c0cb3c5c95a63));
    RND(S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],53,Py_ULL(0x4ed8aa4ae3418acb));
    RND(S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],54,Py_ULL(0x5b9cca4f7763e373));
    RND(S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],55,Py_ULL(0x682e6ff3d6b2b8a3));
    RND(S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],56,Py_ULL(0x748f82ee5defb2fc));
    RND(S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],57,Py_ULL(0x78a5636f43172f60));
    RND(S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],58,Py_ULL(0x84c87814a1f0ab72));
    RND(S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],59,Py_ULL(0x8cc702081a6439ec));
    RND(S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],60,Py_ULL(0x90befffa23631e28));
    RND(S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],61,Py_ULL(0xa4506cebde82bde9));
    RND(S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],62,Py_ULL(0xbef9a3f7b2c67915));
    RND(S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],63,Py_ULL(0xc67178f2e372532b));
    RND(S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],64,Py_ULL(0xca273eceea26619c));
    RND(S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],65,Py_ULL(0xd186b8c721c0c207));
    RND(S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],66,Py_ULL(0xeada7dd6cde0eb1e));
    RND(S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],67,Py_ULL(0xf57d4f7fee6ed178));
    RND(S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],68,Py_ULL(0x06f067aa72176fba));
    RND(S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],69,Py_ULL(0x0a637dc5a2c898a6));
    RND(S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],70,Py_ULL(0x113f9804bef90dae));
    RND(S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],71,Py_ULL(0x1b710b35131c471b));
    RND(S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],72,Py_ULL(0x28db77f523047d84));
    RND(S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],73,Py_ULL(0x32caab7b40c72493));
    RND(S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],74,Py_ULL(0x3c9ebe0a15c9bebc));
    RND(S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],75,Py_ULL(0x431d67c49c100d4c));
    RND(S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],S[3],76,Py_ULL(0x4cc5d4becb3e42b6));
    RND(S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],S[2],77,Py_ULL(0x597f299cfc657e2a));
    RND(S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],S[1],78,Py_ULL(0x5fcb6fab3ad6faec));
    RND(S[1],S[2],S[3],S[4],S[5],S[6],S[7],S[0],79,Py_ULL(0x6c44198c4a475817));

#undef RND     
    
    /* feedback */
    for (i = 0; i < 8; i++) {
        sha_info->digest[i] = sha_info->digest[i] + S[i];
    }

}



/* initialize the SHA digest */

static void
sha512_init(SHAobject *sha_info)
{
    TestEndianness(sha_info->Endianness)
    sha_info->digest[0] = Py_ULL(0x6a09e667f3bcc908);
    sha_info->digest[1] = Py_ULL(0xbb67ae8584caa73b);
    sha_info->digest[2] = Py_ULL(0x3c6ef372fe94f82b);
    sha_info->digest[3] = Py_ULL(0xa54ff53a5f1d36f1);
    sha_info->digest[4] = Py_ULL(0x510e527fade682d1);
    sha_info->digest[5] = Py_ULL(0x9b05688c2b3e6c1f);
    sha_info->digest[6] = Py_ULL(0x1f83d9abfb41bd6b);
    sha_info->digest[7] = Py_ULL(0x5be0cd19137e2179);
    sha_info->count_lo = 0L;
    sha_info->count_hi = 0L;
    sha_info->local = 0;
    sha_info->digestsize = 64;
}

static void
sha384_init(SHAobject *sha_info)
{
    TestEndianness(sha_info->Endianness)
    sha_info->digest[0] = Py_ULL(0xcbbb9d5dc1059ed8);
    sha_info->digest[1] = Py_ULL(0x629a292a367cd507);
    sha_info->digest[2] = Py_ULL(0x9159015a3070dd17);
    sha_info->digest[3] = Py_ULL(0x152fecd8f70e5939);
    sha_info->digest[4] = Py_ULL(0x67332667ffc00b31);
    sha_info->digest[5] = Py_ULL(0x8eb44a8768581511);
    sha_info->digest[6] = Py_ULL(0xdb0c2e0d64f98fa7);
    sha_info->digest[7] = Py_ULL(0x47b5481dbefa4fa4);
    sha_info->count_lo = 0L;
    sha_info->count_hi = 0L;
    sha_info->local = 0;
    sha_info->digestsize = 48;
}


/* update the SHA digest */

static void
sha512_update(SHAobject *sha_info, SHA_BYTE *buffer, int count)
{
    int i;
    SHA_INT32 clo;

    clo = sha_info->count_lo + ((SHA_INT32) count << 3);
    if (clo < sha_info->count_lo) {
        ++sha_info->count_hi;
    }
    sha_info->count_lo = clo;
    sha_info->count_hi += (SHA_INT32) count >> 29;
    if (sha_info->local) {
        i = SHA_BLOCKSIZE - sha_info->local;
        if (i > count) {
            i = count;
        }
        memcpy(((SHA_BYTE *) sha_info->data) + sha_info->local, buffer, i);
        count -= i;
        buffer += i;
        sha_info->local += i;
        if (sha_info->local == SHA_BLOCKSIZE) {
            sha512_transform(sha_info);
        }
        else {
            return;
        }
    }
    while (count >= SHA_BLOCKSIZE) {
        memcpy(sha_info->data, buffer, SHA_BLOCKSIZE);
        buffer += SHA_BLOCKSIZE;
        count -= SHA_BLOCKSIZE;
        sha512_transform(sha_info);
    }
    memcpy(sha_info->data, buffer, count);
    sha_info->local = count;
}

/* finish computing the SHA digest */

static void
sha512_final(unsigned char digest[SHA_DIGESTSIZE], SHAobject *sha_info)
{
    int count;
    SHA_INT32 lo_bit_count, hi_bit_count;

    lo_bit_count = sha_info->count_lo;
    hi_bit_count = sha_info->count_hi;
    count = (int) ((lo_bit_count >> 3) & 0x7f);
    ((SHA_BYTE *) sha_info->data)[count++] = 0x80;
    if (count > SHA_BLOCKSIZE - 16) {
	memset(((SHA_BYTE *) sha_info->data) + count, 0,
	       SHA_BLOCKSIZE - count);
	sha512_transform(sha_info);
	memset((SHA_BYTE *) sha_info->data, 0, SHA_BLOCKSIZE - 16);
    }
    else {
	memset(((SHA_BYTE *) sha_info->data) + count, 0,
	       SHA_BLOCKSIZE - 16 - count);
    }

    /* GJS: note that we add the hi/lo in big-endian. sha512_transform will
       swap these values into host-order. */
    sha_info->data[112] = 0;
    sha_info->data[113] = 0;
    sha_info->data[114] = 0;
    sha_info->data[115] = 0;
    sha_info->data[116] = 0;
    sha_info->data[117] = 0;
    sha_info->data[118] = 0;
    sha_info->data[119] = 0;
    sha_info->data[120] = (hi_bit_count >> 24) & 0xff;
    sha_info->data[121] = (hi_bit_count >> 16) & 0xff;
    sha_info->data[122] = (hi_bit_count >>  8) & 0xff;
    sha_info->data[123] = (hi_bit_count >>  0) & 0xff;
    sha_info->data[124] = (lo_bit_count >> 24) & 0xff;
    sha_info->data[125] = (lo_bit_count >> 16) & 0xff;
    sha_info->data[126] = (lo_bit_count >>  8) & 0xff;
    sha_info->data[127] = (lo_bit_count >>  0) & 0xff;
    sha512_transform(sha_info);
    digest[ 0] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[0] >> 56) & 0xff);
    digest[ 1] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[0] >> 48) & 0xff);
    digest[ 2] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[0] >> 40) & 0xff);
    digest[ 3] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[0] >> 32) & 0xff);
    digest[ 4] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[0] >> 24) & 0xff);
    digest[ 5] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[0] >> 16) & 0xff);
    digest[ 6] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[0] >>  8) & 0xff);
    digest[ 7] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[0]      ) & 0xff);
    digest[ 8] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[1] >> 56) & 0xff);
    digest[ 9] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[1] >> 48) & 0xff);
    digest[10] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[1] >> 40) & 0xff);
    digest[11] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[1] >> 32) & 0xff);
    digest[12] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[1] >> 24) & 0xff);
    digest[13] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[1] >> 16) & 0xff);
    digest[14] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[1] >>  8) & 0xff);
    digest[15] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[1]      ) & 0xff);
    digest[16] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[2] >> 56) & 0xff);
    digest[17] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[2] >> 48) & 0xff);
    digest[18] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[2] >> 40) & 0xff);
    digest[19] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[2] >> 32) & 0xff);
    digest[20] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[2] >> 24) & 0xff);
    digest[21] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[2] >> 16) & 0xff);
    digest[22] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[2] >>  8) & 0xff);
    digest[23] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[2]      ) & 0xff);
    digest[24] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[3] >> 56) & 0xff);
    digest[25] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[3] >> 48) & 0xff);
    digest[26] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[3] >> 40) & 0xff);
    digest[27] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[3] >> 32) & 0xff);
    digest[28] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[3] >> 24) & 0xff);
    digest[29] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[3] >> 16) & 0xff);
    digest[30] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[3] >>  8) & 0xff);
    digest[31] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[3]      ) & 0xff);
    digest[32] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[4] >> 56) & 0xff);
    digest[33] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[4] >> 48) & 0xff);
    digest[34] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[4] >> 40) & 0xff);
    digest[35] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[4] >> 32) & 0xff);
    digest[36] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[4] >> 24) & 0xff);
    digest[37] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[4] >> 16) & 0xff);
    digest[38] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[4] >>  8) & 0xff);
    digest[39] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[4]      ) & 0xff);
    digest[40] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[5] >> 56) & 0xff);
    digest[41] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[5] >> 48) & 0xff);
    digest[42] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[5] >> 40) & 0xff);
    digest[43] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[5] >> 32) & 0xff);
    digest[44] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[5] >> 24) & 0xff);
    digest[45] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[5] >> 16) & 0xff);
    digest[46] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[5] >>  8) & 0xff);
    digest[47] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[5]      ) & 0xff);
    digest[48] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[6] >> 56) & 0xff);
    digest[49] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[6] >> 48) & 0xff);
    digest[50] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[6] >> 40) & 0xff);
    digest[51] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[6] >> 32) & 0xff);
    digest[52] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[6] >> 24) & 0xff);
    digest[53] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[6] >> 16) & 0xff);
    digest[54] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[6] >>  8) & 0xff);
    digest[55] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[6]      ) & 0xff);
    digest[56] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[7] >> 56) & 0xff);
    digest[57] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[7] >> 48) & 0xff);
    digest[58] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[7] >> 40) & 0xff);
    digest[59] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[7] >> 32) & 0xff);
    digest[60] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[7] >> 24) & 0xff);
    digest[61] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[7] >> 16) & 0xff);
    digest[62] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[7] >>  8) & 0xff);
    digest[63] = (unsigned char) ((sha_info->digest[7]      ) & 0xff);
}

/*
 * End of copied SHA code.
 *
 * ------------------------------------------------------------------------
 */

static PyTypeObject SHA384type;
static PyTypeObject SHA512type;


static SHAobject *
newSHA384object(void)
{
    return (SHAobject *)PyObject_New(SHAobject, &SHA384type);
}

static SHAobject *
newSHA512object(void)
{
    return (SHAobject *)PyObject_New(SHAobject, &SHA512type);
}

/* Internal methods for a hash object */

static void
SHA512_dealloc(PyObject *ptr)
{
    PyObject_Del(ptr);
}


/* External methods for a hash object */

PyDoc_STRVAR(SHA512_copy__doc__, "Return a copy of the hash object.");

static PyObject *
SHA512_copy(SHAobject *self, PyObject *unused)
{
    SHAobject *newobj;

    if (((PyObject*)self)->ob_type == &SHA512type) {
        if ( (newobj = newSHA512object())==NULL)
            return NULL;
    } else {
        if ( (newobj = newSHA384object())==NULL)
            return NULL;
    }

    SHAcopy(self, newobj);
    return (PyObject *)newobj;
}

PyDoc_STRVAR(SHA512_digest__doc__,
"Return the digest value as a string of binary data.");

static PyObject *
SHA512_digest(SHAobject *self, PyObject *unused)
{
    unsigned char digest[SHA_DIGESTSIZE];
    SHAobject temp;

    SHAcopy(self, &temp);
    sha512_final(digest, &temp);
    return PyString_FromStringAndSize((const char *)digest, self->digestsize);
}

PyDoc_STRVAR(SHA512_hexdigest__doc__,
"Return the digest value as a string of hexadecimal digits.");

static PyObject *
SHA512_hexdigest(SHAobject *self, PyObject *unused)
{
    unsigned char digest[SHA_DIGESTSIZE];
    SHAobject temp;
    PyObject *retval;
    char *hex_digest;
    int i, j;

    /* Get the raw (binary) digest value */
    SHAcopy(self, &temp);
    sha512_final(digest, &temp);

    /* Create a new string */
    retval = PyString_FromStringAndSize(NULL, self->digestsize * 2);
    if (!retval)
	    return NULL;
    hex_digest = PyString_AsString(retval);
    if (!hex_digest) {
	    Py_DECREF(retval);
	    return NULL;
    }

    /* Make hex version of the digest */
    for (i=j=0; i<self->digestsize; i++) {
        char c;
        c = (digest[i] >> 4) & 0xf;
	c = (c>9) ? c+'a'-10 : c + '0';
        hex_digest[j++] = c;
        c = (digest[i] & 0xf);
	c = (c>9) ? c+'a'-10 : c + '0';
        hex_digest[j++] = c;
    }
    return retval;
}

PyDoc_STRVAR(SHA512_update__doc__,
"Update this hash object's state with the provided string.");

static PyObject *
SHA512_update(SHAobject *self, PyObject *args)
{
    unsigned char *cp;
    int len;

    if (!PyArg_ParseTuple(args, "s#:update", &cp, &len))
        return NULL;

    sha512_update(self, cp, len);

    Py_INCREF(Py_None);
    return Py_None;
}

static PyMethodDef SHA_methods[] = {
    {"copy",	  (PyCFunction)SHA512_copy,      METH_NOARGS, SHA512_copy__doc__},
    {"digest",	  (PyCFunction)SHA512_digest,    METH_NOARGS, SHA512_digest__doc__},
    {"hexdigest", (PyCFunction)SHA512_hexdigest, METH_NOARGS, SHA512_hexdigest__doc__},
    {"update",	  (PyCFunction)SHA512_update,    METH_VARARGS, SHA512_update__doc__},
    {NULL,	  NULL}		/* sentinel */
};

static PyObject *
SHA512_get_block_size(PyObject *self, void *closure)
{
    return PyInt_FromLong(SHA_BLOCKSIZE);
}

static PyObject *
SHA512_get_name(PyObject *self, void *closure)
{
    if (((SHAobject *)self)->digestsize == 64)
        return PyString_FromStringAndSize("SHA512", 6);
    else
        return PyString_FromStringAndSize("SHA384", 6);
}

static PyGetSetDef SHA_getseters[] = {
    {"block_size",
     (getter)SHA512_get_block_size, NULL,
     NULL,
     NULL},
    {"name",
     (getter)SHA512_get_name, NULL,
     NULL,
     NULL},
    {NULL}  /* Sentinel */
};

static PyMemberDef SHA_members[] = {
    {"digest_size", T_INT, offsetof(SHAobject, digestsize), READONLY, NULL},
    /* the old md5 and sha modules support 'digest_size' as in PEP 247.
     * the old sha module also supported 'digestsize'.  ugh. */
    {"digestsize", T_INT, offsetof(SHAobject, digestsize), READONLY, NULL},
    {NULL}  /* Sentinel */
};

static PyTypeObject SHA384type = {
    PyObject_HEAD_INIT(NULL)
    0,			/*ob_size*/
    "_sha512.sha384",	/*tp_name*/
    sizeof(SHAobject),	/*tp_size*/
    0,			/*tp_itemsize*/
    /* methods */
    SHA512_dealloc,	/*tp_dealloc*/
    0,			/*tp_print*/
    0,          	/*tp_getattr*/
    0,                  /*tp_setattr*/
    0,                  /*tp_compare*/
    0,                  /*tp_repr*/
    0,                  /*tp_as_number*/
    0,                  /*tp_as_sequence*/
    0,                  /*tp_as_mapping*/
    0,                  /*tp_hash*/
    0,                  /*tp_call*/
    0,                  /*tp_str*/
    0,                  /*tp_getattro*/
    0,                  /*tp_setattro*/
    0,                  /*tp_as_buffer*/
    Py_TPFLAGS_DEFAULT, /*tp_flags*/
    0,                  /*tp_doc*/
    0,                  /*tp_traverse*/
    0,			/*tp_clear*/
    0,			/*tp_richcompare*/
    0,			/*tp_weaklistoffset*/
    0,			/*tp_iter*/
    0,			/*tp_iternext*/
    SHA_methods,	/* tp_methods */
    SHA_members,	/* tp_members */
    SHA_getseters,      /* tp_getset */
};

static PyTypeObject SHA512type = {
    PyObject_HEAD_INIT(NULL)
    0,			/*ob_size*/
    "_sha512.sha512",	/*tp_name*/
    sizeof(SHAobject),	/*tp_size*/
    0,			/*tp_itemsize*/
    /* methods */
    SHA512_dealloc,	/*tp_dealloc*/
    0,			/*tp_print*/
    0,          	/*tp_getattr*/
    0,                  /*tp_setattr*/
    0,                  /*tp_compare*/
    0,                  /*tp_repr*/
    0,                  /*tp_as_number*/
    0,                  /*tp_as_sequence*/
    0,                  /*tp_as_mapping*/
    0,                  /*tp_hash*/
    0,                  /*tp_call*/
    0,                  /*tp_str*/
    0,                  /*tp_getattro*/
    0,                  /*tp_setattro*/
    0,                  /*tp_as_buffer*/
    Py_TPFLAGS_DEFAULT, /*tp_flags*/
    0,                  /*tp_doc*/
    0,                  /*tp_traverse*/
    0,			/*tp_clear*/
    0,			/*tp_richcompare*/
    0,			/*tp_weaklistoffset*/
    0,			/*tp_iter*/
    0,			/*tp_iternext*/
    SHA_methods,	/* tp_methods */
    SHA_members,	/* tp_members */
    SHA_getseters,      /* tp_getset */
};


/* The single module-level function: new() */

PyDoc_STRVAR(SHA512_new__doc__,
"Return a new SHA-512 hash object; optionally initialized with a string.");

static PyObject *
SHA512_new(PyObject *self, PyObject *args, PyObject *kwdict)
{
    static char *kwlist[] = {"string", NULL};
    SHAobject *new;
    unsigned char *cp = NULL;
    int len;

    if (!PyArg_ParseTupleAndKeywords(args, kwdict, "|s#:new", kwlist,
                                     &cp, &len)) {
        return NULL;
    }

    if ((new = newSHA512object()) == NULL)
        return NULL;

    sha512_init(new);

    if (PyErr_Occurred()) {
        Py_DECREF(new);
        return NULL;
    }
    if (cp)
        sha512_update(new, cp, len);

    return (PyObject *)new;
}

PyDoc_STRVAR(SHA384_new__doc__,
"Return a new SHA-384 hash object; optionally initialized with a string.");

static PyObject *
SHA384_new(PyObject *self, PyObject *args, PyObject *kwdict)
{
    static char *kwlist[] = {"string", NULL};
    SHAobject *new;
    unsigned char *cp = NULL;
    int len;

    if (!PyArg_ParseTupleAndKeywords(args, kwdict, "|s#:new", kwlist,
                                     &cp, &len)) {
        return NULL;
    }

    if ((new = newSHA384object()) == NULL)
        return NULL;

    sha384_init(new);

    if (PyErr_Occurred()) {
        Py_DECREF(new);
        return NULL;
    }
    if (cp)
        sha512_update(new, cp, len);

    return (PyObject *)new;
}


/* List of functions exported by this module */

static struct PyMethodDef SHA_functions[] = {
    {"sha512", (PyCFunction)SHA512_new, METH_VARARGS|METH_KEYWORDS, SHA512_new__doc__},
    {"sha384", (PyCFunction)SHA384_new, METH_VARARGS|METH_KEYWORDS, SHA384_new__doc__},
    {NULL,	NULL}		 /* Sentinel */
};


/* Initialize this module. */

#define insint(n,v) { PyModule_AddIntConstant(m,n,v); }

PyMODINIT_FUNC
init_sha512(void)
{
    PyObject *m;

    SHA384type.ob_type = &PyType_Type;
    if (PyType_Ready(&SHA384type) < 0)
        return;
    SHA512type.ob_type = &PyType_Type;
    if (PyType_Ready(&SHA512type) < 0)
        return;
    m = Py_InitModule("_sha512", SHA_functions);
    if (m == NULL)
	return;
}

#endif

Re: [9fans] 8c "out of fixed registers"

[Charles Forsyth]

>does the function that causes 8c to quit declare a large
>number of "register int" variables?

it ignores you, and works that out itself.

usually the troublesome expression really does use
so many registers it needs to spill to memory, but doesn't.

Re: [9fans] 8c "out of fixed registers"

[Charles Forsyth]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 189 bytes --]

i'm intending to maintain python ports based on APE,
so i'll merge in your changes and see what can be done
to have as much of that as possible included in the
basic python distribution.

[-- Attachment #2: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 3820 bytes --]

From: "Federico G. Benavento" <benavento@gmail.com>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: [9fans] 8c "out of fixed registers"
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 01:12:55 -0300
Message-ID: <01d0e13bc88b63d5c9e1f47b15f41a9b@yourdomain.dom>

hola,

I just did yet another python port, this one using APE,
because I wanted to see if I could get HG working
and for that I needed openssl (which I had just reported,
/n/sources/contrib/fgb/openssl.tgz)
It worked, but I had to hack /sys/lib/python/hashlib.py
to not try to import the sha512 module.

I can't build that module because 8c abort()s in
/sys/src/cmd/8c/txt.c:309

this is the file:
http://tinyurl.com/2zsjp9

Anyways, hg seems to work fine.


Federico G. Benavento

---
/bin/fortune:
After the paunch comes the dance.

Re: [9fans] 8c "out of fixed registers"

[Federico G. Benavento]

> i'm intending to maintain python ports based on APE,
> so i'll merge in your changes and see what can be done
> to have as much of that as possible included in the
> basic python distribution.

sounds fine.

thanks

Federico G. Benavento

---
/bin/fortune:
There is a world in which this sentence ends with a different word.

Re: [9fans] 8c "out of fixed registers"

[Charles Forsyth]

yes, that's the sort of thing that will do it.
the resulting expressions are pointlessly big,
with lots of parentheses to reduce ordering options.

Re: [9fans] 8c "out of fixed registers"

[Robert William Fuller]

Charles Forsyth wrote:
> yes, that's the sort of thing that will do it.
> the resulting expressions are pointlessly big,
> with lots of parentheses to reduce ordering options.

And yet, other "inferior" compilers like gcc can build it.  Sorry, I'm a
bit jaded by all the gcc/linux bashing on this list.  This isn't
necessarily aimed at Charles, more at the list.

Re: [9fans] 8c "out of fixed registers"

[Charles Forsyth]

but gcc and linux should be bashed.
Fortran H could probably build it too.
i didn't even say that the compiler shouldn't
bother, just that the approach that sha implementation is trying
to use is probably counterproductive (even with gcc)

Re: [9fans] 8c "out of fixed registers"

[Charles Forsyth]

>i didn't even say that the compiler shouldn't bother

i'll say a bit more once i'm on a network with reasonable speed...

Re: [9fans] 8c "out of fixed registers"

[Bruce Ellis]

it's my fault.  8c is designed not to run out of registers and when
i added the division by constant optimization i thought i could
get away with a temporary.  it works nearly all the time :-)
a simple fix is to check for register squeeze and bypass the
optimization if it's going to fail.  there are other smarter, and
not too complex, alternatives.

brucee

On Nov 20, 2007 5:14 AM, Charles Forsyth <forsyth@terzarima.net> wrote:
> >does the function that causes 8c to quit declare a large
> >number of "register int" variables?
>
> it ignores you, and works that out itself.
>
> usually the troublesome expression really does use
> so many registers it needs to spill to memory, but doesn't.

Re: [9fans] 8c "out of fixed registers"

[Uriel]

If you think there is much linux/gcc/gnu bashing around here you must
be new, read the archives from years ago if you want some real
bashing. Hell, you could start with 'cat -v considered harmful' some
25 years ago: http://harmful.cat-v.org/cat-v/

Unfortunately over the years it seems that the people with best taste
have either left or died (of course there are some exceptions, like
charles and  brucee who still make it worth reading 9fans).

I'm rather sad at all the linux/OS X apologists in this list lately. I
guess that the last oasis of sanity is starting to be drowned in the
ever growing dunes of gratuitous  complexity. *sigh*

uriel

P.S.: I miss boyd... "if you want lunix you know where to find it".

On Nov 19, 2007 7:48 PM, Robert William Fuller
<hydrologiccycle@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Charles Forsyth wrote:
> > yes, that's the sort of thing that will do it.
> > the resulting expressions are pointlessly big,
> > with lots of parentheses to reduce ordering options.
>
> And yet, other "inferior" compilers like gcc can build it.  Sorry, I'm a
> bit jaded by all the gcc/linux bashing on this list.  This isn't
> necessarily aimed at Charles, more at the list.
>
>

Re: [9fans] 8c "out of fixed registers"

[Iruata Souza]

On Nov 19, 2007 6:38 PM, Uriel <uriel99@gmail.com> wrote:
> If you think there is much linux/gcc/gnu bashing around here you must
> be new, read the archives from years ago if you want some real
> bashing. Hell, you could start with 'cat -v considered harmful' some
> 25 years ago: http://harmful.cat-v.org/cat-v/
>
> Unfortunately over the years it seems that the people with best taste
> have either left or died (of course there are some exceptions, like
> charles and  brucee who still make it worth reading 9fans).
>
> I'm rather sad at all the linux/OS X apologists in this list lately. I
> guess that the last oasis of sanity is starting to be drowned in the
> ever growing dunes of gratuitous  complexity. *sigh*
>
> uriel
>
> P.S.: I miss boyd... "if you want lunix you know where to find it".
>

fortunately, there are still some people trying to port Plan 9 sanity
back to lunix and complex but still needed stuff to Plan 9.

iru

Re: [9fans] 8c "out of fixed registers"

[erik quanstrom]

> Charles Forsyth wrote:
> > yes, that's the sort of thing that will do it.
> > the resulting expressions are pointlessly big,
> > with lots of parentheses to reduce ordering options.
> 
> And yet, other "inferior" compilers like gcc can build it.  Sorry, I'm a
> bit jaded by all the gcc/linux bashing on this list.  This isn't
> necessarily aimed at Charles, more at the list.

not sure how one bug that only manifests on code that
deserves to loose (have you read it?) makes 8c worse than gcc.

- erik

Re: [9fans] 8c "out of fixed registers"

[Charles Forsyth]

>it's my fault. 
> [brucee]

not really: the compilers made an assumption that would
have been reasonable if the world had not bizarrely plumped
for an architecture full of anomalies, that's hard to get to go fast,
that doesn't extend well to 16 bits let alone 32 or 64
and ... most to the point, has few registers and those are not general purpose.

Re: [9fans] 8c "out of fixed registers"

[dave.l]

>> P.S.: I miss boyd... "if you want lunix you know where to find it".
>>
>>
>
> fortunately, there are still some people trying to port Plan 9 sanity
> back to lunix and complex but still needed stuff to Plan 9.

Complexity is never needed.

Lock and load.

D

Re: [9fans] 8c "out of fixed registers"

[Bruce Ellis]

exactly.  last time i stayed with him i ended up with a machine pistol
in my bed, which i must have taken for self protection.  some dumb-ass
pigeon woke me up and i shot him, dead.  back to sleep.
no!  all of his mates were attacking my window and i cursed them
in french and they went away briefly but kept up the window bashing.
so i flicked to 30 burst and ... on the way to lunch boyd asked ...
"do you know anything about all the dead pigeons in the courtyard?".
"that's not important right now."

brucee

On Nov 20, 2007 11:20 AM,  <dave.l@mac.com> wrote:
> >> P.S.: I miss boyd... "if you want lunix you know where to find it".
> >>
> >>
> >
> > fortunately, there are still some people trying to port Plan 9 sanity
> > back to lunix and complex but still needed stuff to Plan 9.
>
> Complexity is never needed.
>
> Lock and load.
>
> D

Re: [9fans] 8c "out of fixed registers"

[Iruata Souza]

On Nov 19, 2007 10:20 PM,  <dave.l@mac.com> wrote:
> Complexity is never needed.
>

may I suppose you use a web browser?
if yes, is this complexity needed or not?

iru

Re: [9fans] 8c "out of fixed registers"

[David Leimbach]

On Nov 20, 2007 7:28 AM, Iruata Souza <iru.muzgo@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 19, 2007 10:20 PM,  <dave.l@mac.com> wrote:
> > Complexity is never needed.
> >
>
> may I suppose you use a web browser?
> if yes, is this complexity needed or not?
>
> iru
>

It's not needed in the sense that no one needs to add more complexity
to their lives or their work flow.  It is needed in the sense that the
way people decide to do their work involves having to use things like
Windows and Outlook and Word, and web pages.

Sometimes I miss gopher... a lot.

Dave

Re: [9fans] 8c "out of fixed registers"

[Iruata Souza]

On Nov 20, 2007 2:39 PM, David Leimbach <leimy2k@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's not needed in the sense that no one needs to add more complexity
> to their lives or their work flow.  It is needed in the sense that the
> way people decide to do their work involves having to use things like
> Windows and Outlook and Word, and web pages.
>
> Sometimes I miss gopher... a lot.
>
> Dave
>

exactly. if you need to use something, complex or not, you can't say
it's not needed.
so if you need to use some tool and it's complex AND you want to use
it under Plan 9, them that complexity is still needed.
I myself see a big difference between wanting and needing.

iru

Re: [9fans] 8c "out of fixed registers"

[David Leimbach]

On Nov 20, 2007 8:48 AM, Iruata Souza <iru.muzgo@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 20, 2007 2:39 PM, David Leimbach <leimy2k@gmail.com> wrote:
> > It's not needed in the sense that no one needs to add more complexity
> > to their lives or their work flow.  It is needed in the sense that the
> > way people decide to do their work involves having to use things like
> > Windows and Outlook and Word, and web pages.
> >
> > Sometimes I miss gopher... a lot.
> >
> > Dave
> >
>
> exactly. if you need to use something, complex or not, you can't say
> it's not needed.
> so if you need to use some tool and it's complex AND you want to use
> it under Plan 9, them that complexity is still needed.
> I myself see a big difference between wanting and needing.
>
> iru
>

Sure, I think it's just that we all feel we're better off without
complexity and that no one really needs it, we're just working in a
world where complexity is the de-facto standard and we must conform to
be able to function.

Dave

Re: [9fans] 8c "out of fixed registers"

[Anthony Sorace]

Not conform. Adapt. Perhaps accommodate.

Re: [9fans] 8c "out of fixed registers"

[dave.l]

> may I suppose you use a web browser?

You may.

> if yes, is this complexity needed or not?

No it is not, because the browser is not "needed".
Neither is OS X or the MacBook upon which they run.

AFAIK the only things we _need_ are:
air, food, water, shelter and reproduction (have I missed any?):
all the rest is choice.

Just because someone choses to use some piece of unnecessarily  
complex technology
does not make it a "need", it makes it a "want".

We don't need web browsers, video players etc.:
we just like having them.

If you then say "I need it to do my job",
then I say that the job is your choice (as is mine using linux etc.),
and so ad infinitum.

If the government mandates use of a web browser,
well, we voted for them, right?
If you don't fight tooth and nail against them then it's your choice.

In other words, I use the shit, reluctantly,
I don't increase the size of the pile.
While I'm not happy with the situation,
as least I'm not exacerbating it.

Plan9 with a usable web browser would be a fine idea.
Unfortunately, the pain and complexity that goes
with making that fine idea into a reality would drive people away  
from plan9.

D.

Re: [9fans] 8c "out of fixed registers"

[dave.l]

> exactly. if you need to use something, complex or not, you can't say
> it's not needed.
> so if you need to use some tool and it's complex AND you want to use
> it under Plan 9, them that complexity is still needed.
> I myself see a big difference between wanting and needing.

I don't understand:
why do you "need" the complexity caused by something that you "want"?
You "need" to use some tool: fine,
but you _want_ to use it under plan9, not _need_ to use it under plan9,
so the complexity is _wanted_ not _needed_.

D

Re: [9fans] 8c "out of fixed registers"

[Iruata Souza]

On Nov 20, 2007 8:58 PM,  <dave.l@mac.com> wrote:
> I don't understand:
> why do you "need" the complexity caused by something that you "want"?
> You "need" to use some tool: fine,
> but you _want_ to use it under plan9, not _need_ to use it under plan9,
> so the complexity is _wanted_ not _needed_.
>
> D
>

what if your employer say you need to use Plan 9 or whatever other thing?
unless you plan on living alone in the woods or something, that
becomes a need since you have to work.
but this is going OT, so I'll stop by saying that, in ideal
conditions, I agree with you.

iru

Re: [9fans] 8c "out of fixed registers"

[Uriel]

> [...] usable web browser would be a fine idea.

No, a 'usable web browser' would be an oxymoron.

uriel

Re: [9fans] 8c "out of fixed registers"

[Douglas A. Gwyn]

David Leimbach wrote:
> Sure, I think it's just that we all feel we're better off without
> complexity and that no one really needs it, we're just working in a
> world where complexity is the de-facto standard and we must conform to
> be able to function.

The difference between theory and practice is that in theory,
the real world is pretty simple, whereas in practice, it is not.

Or as Einstein said, things should be made as simple as possible,
but no simpler.

Practically *every* application that has to do a significant
job of interfacing with the real world ends up being relatively
complex by the time it has been made to do everything well
(i.e. to handle every situation that could possibly arise).

It's always nice to find simpler solutions to real-world
problems than have previously been employed, but it's not nice
to find simplistic solutions.

Re: [9fans] 8c "out of fixed registers"

[erik quanstrom]

> It's always nice to find simpler solutions to real-world
> problems than have previously been employed, but it's not nice
> to find simplistic solutions.

the labs have excelled in that.  especially in the early days of unix
and plan 9.

- erik

Re: [9fans] 8c "out of fixed registers"

[Douglas A. Gwyn]

Uriel wrote:
> No, a 'usable web browser' would be an oxymoron.

The latest versions of Firefox and IE seem to be rather usable
(on Windows XP at any rate).  At least I use them a lot...