From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 References: <201104290319.23556.errno@cox.net> <201104292105.39780.errno@cox.net> From: Anthony Sorace Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-12--579951016" In-Reply-To: <201104292105.39780.errno@cox.net> Message-Id: <33F21281-6959-49EB-91E6-2906EC606483@9srv.net> Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2011 02:26:03 -0400 To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [9fans] Compiling 9atom kernel WAS: Re: spaces in filenames Topicbox-Message-UUID: d979b02c-ead6-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-12--579951016 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-11--579951124 --Apple-Mail-11--579951124 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Apr 30, 2011, at 12:05 AM, errno wrote: > But APE has c++ (old version of gcc though). APE has no c++. there is a very old version of gcc floating around on sources that can, with some effort, sometimes be made to compile things. > I expect that a webkit (or gecko) port would need to rely on APE, = right? it'd need to rely on whatever provided the c++ compiler and libraries. = getting some useful set of those is itself a sizable effort. > I guess I'd have to start with the build dependencies first, some of > them might already be on contrib somewhere. if you really want to do it, start with the c++ compiler. then look at = webkit's own dependencies (about half of which we have APE versions for, although i'm skeptical of mixing that and g++-compiled code). > I operated on the understanding that Plan 9 gets developed according > to peoples' desire to scratch particular itches. I was also operating=20= > under the impression that the clean and well-designed nature of plan = 9's > abstractions and architecture would facilitate making hard problems = easier. i think those are valid assumptions. however: > If it is accepted that people do in fact want a fully functional = native (or > "native-ish") web experience on Plan 9, what is the logical = explanation for it > still not existing after so many years? because it's a huge amount of work. there's a whole pile of standards = and pseudo-standards to deal with, the set is ever-growing, the components = are ever-growing, and there isn't really a good definition of "correct". = think about the hours that've gone into making webkit (or worse, gecko) what it is. = and all that work is ongoing. making an infinitely difficult problem significantly easier still yields = an infinitely difficult problem. it's all just a hideous mess. it'd be nice to have a good, plan9-ish = solution, but it's awful tempting to just run opera under linuxemu or go buy a tablet = to treat as a web browser in hardware.= --Apple-Mail-11--579951124 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

But = APE has c++ (old version of gcc = though).

APE has no c++. there is = a very old version of gcc floating around on

sources that = can, with some effort, sometimes be made to compile = things.

I expect that = a webkit (or gecko) port would need to rely on APE, = right?

it'd need to rely on = whatever provided the c++ compiler and libraries. getting

some = useful set of those is itself a sizable = effort.

I guess I'd = have to start with the build dependencies first, some of
them might = already be on contrib somewhere.

if = you really want to do it, start with the c++ compiler. then look at = webkit's

own dependencies (about half of which we have APE = versions for, although

i'm skeptical of mixing that and = g++-compiled code).

I = operated on the understanding that Plan 9 gets developed according
to = peoples' desire to scratch particular itches. I was also operating =
under the impression that the clean and well-designed nature of plan = 9's
abstractions and architecture would facilitate making hard = problems easier.

i think those = are valid assumptions. however:

If it is accepted that people do in fact want a fully = functional native (or
"native-ish") web experience on Plan 9, what is = the logical explanation for it
still not existing after so many = years?

because it's a huge = amount of work. there's a whole pile of standards = and

pseudo-standards to deal with, the set is ever-growing, = the components are

ever-growing, and there isn't really a good = definition of "correct". think about

the hours that've gone = into making webkit (or worse, gecko) what it is. and

all that = work is ongoing.

making an infinitely difficult = problem significantly easier still yields = an

infinitely difficult = problem.

it's all just a hideous mess. it'd be = nice to have a good, plan9-ish solution, but

it's awful = tempting to just run opera under linuxemu or go buy a tablet = to

treat as a web browser in = hardware.

= --Apple-Mail-11--579951124-- --Apple-Mail-12--579951016 content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: This is a digitally signed message part content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.16 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAk27q4IACgkQyrb52b5lrs7gxACfa9sHuPbZjor8/7DcXk0oZwCg sFMAnj8UhEkJmQ7LQ8TnC8HxreB2KERV =/jQz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-12--579951016--