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* [9fans] sources/contrib
@ 2021-01-26 22:01 Pouya Tafti
  2021-01-26 22:23 ` sirjofri
  2021-01-26 22:33 ` David du Colombier
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Pouya Tafti @ 2021-01-26 22:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

I'm coming back to Plan 9 after something of a 15 year break.  It looks
like 9p.io has replaced plan9.bell-labs.com.  Is it still possible to
have a contrib directory (and should I have one / do I deserve one)?
The old instructions were to request one by e-mailing a--presumably--now
defunct address at the Bell Labs (which I, being too much of an amateur
and with nothing to contribute, didn't do back then).

Many thanks,
Pouya

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
  2021-01-26 22:01 [9fans] sources/contrib Pouya Tafti
@ 2021-01-26 22:23 ` sirjofri
  2021-01-26 23:10   ` Pouya Tafti
  2021-01-26 23:28   ` Pouya Tafti
  2021-01-26 22:33 ` David du Colombier
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: sirjofri @ 2021-01-26 22:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Hello and welcome back,

26.01.2021 23:01:35 Pouya Tafti <pouya+lists.9fans@nohup.io>:
> I'm coming back to Plan 9 after something of a 15 year break.

Wow, that's a very long time. Indeed, welcome back. I hope you feel well 
in the new community. I'm sure it changes quite a bit.

> It looks
> like 9p.io has replaced plan9.bell-labs.com.  Is it still possible to
> have a contrib directory (and should I have one / do I deserve one)?

As far as I know there is a mirror or remake of the original contrib at 
9p.io, but I'm not sure.

Since you were away for 15 years you might want to check out other Plan 9 
forks. The most active one is probably 9front[1], which contains lots of 
new software as well as hardware support. It also has its own 
infrastructure (source repo, contrib).

I know there's (or was?) 9atom, but I don't know the details. Also 
there's lots of new software for 9 in general made by other developers 
outside the contribs. It's worth mentioning that many new software is in 
git repos since we now have a native git software[2]. Lots of older 
software is archived on github[3].

There's also a 9fans discord server that's bridged to ##9fans on 
freenode, if you want some more synchronous communication.

Don't hesitate to ask questions. Welcome back 🙂

sirjofri

[1] http://9front.org
[2] https://github.com/oridb/git9
[3] https://github.com/Plan9-Archive

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
  2021-01-26 22:01 [9fans] sources/contrib Pouya Tafti
  2021-01-26 22:23 ` sirjofri
@ 2021-01-26 22:33 ` David du Colombier
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: David du Colombier @ 2021-01-26 22:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> I'm coming back to Plan 9 after something of a 15 year break.  It looks
> like 9p.io has replaced plan9.bell-labs.com.  Is it still possible to
> have a contrib directory (and should I have one / do I deserve one)?
> The old instructions were to request one by e-mailing a--presumably--now
> defunct address at the Bell Labs (which I, being too much of an amateur
> and with nothing to contribute, didn't do back then).

I am the maintainer of 9p.io. You can contact me with your desired
username so I can can create you a contrib directory.

-- 
David du Colombier

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
  2021-01-26 22:23 ` sirjofri
@ 2021-01-26 23:10   ` Pouya Tafti
  2021-01-26 23:28   ` Pouya Tafti
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Pouya Tafti @ 2021-01-26 23:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 10:23:44PM +0000, sirjofri wrote:
> As far as I know there is a mirror or remake of the original contrib at
> 9p.io, but I'm not sure.
> 
> Since you were away for 15 years you might want to check out other Plan 9
> forks. The most active one is probably 9front[1], which contains lots of new
> software as well as hardware support. It also has its own infrastructure
> (source repo, contrib).

Thank you for the kind welcome and the helpful pointers, which I will
check out.  I have also been lurking around this list for a short while,
to get somewhat up to speed.

David also kindly responded regarding the original contrib in a separate
subthread.

Pouya

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
  2021-01-26 22:23 ` sirjofri
  2021-01-26 23:10   ` Pouya Tafti
@ 2021-01-26 23:28   ` Pouya Tafti
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Pouya Tafti @ 2021-01-26 23:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 10:23:44PM +0000, sirjofri wrote:
> As far as I know there is a mirror or remake of the original contrib at
> 9p.io, but I'm not sure.
> 
> Since you were away for 15 years you might want to check out other Plan 9
> forks. The most active one is probably 9front[1], which contains lots of new
> software as well as hardware support. It also has its own infrastructure
> (source repo, contrib).

Thank you for the kind welcome and the helpful pointers, which I will
check out.  I have also been lurking around this list for a short while,
to get somewhat up to speed.

David du Colombier also kindly responded regarding the original contrib
mirror in a separate subthread.

Pouya

------------------------------------------
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
  2007-11-22 15:44                 ` Russ Cox
@ 2007-11-22 19:48                   ` Uriel
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Uriel @ 2007-11-22 19:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs

After plan9dev was killed (I still don't know why, I think it
performed exactly the function you want), somebody else created this:

http://groups.google.com/group/plan9-tech

uriel

P.S.: I got bashed for even mentioning this list exists some months
ago, so I guess it is not what you want.

On Nov 22, 2007 4:44 PM, Russ Cox <rsc@swtch.com> wrote:
> > Does anyone see any merit in having a stacked mailing list? For
>
> what i'd like is to have a mailing list i can subscribe to
> that is 9fans with just the technical content and none of
> the whining.  (so this message wouldn't make it through.)
>
> russ
>
>


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
  2007-11-21 20:55               ` Navin Johnson
@ 2007-11-22 15:44                 ` Russ Cox
  2007-11-22 19:48                   ` Uriel
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Russ Cox @ 2007-11-22 15:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> Does anyone see any merit in having a stacked mailing list? For

what i'd like is to have a mailing list i can subscribe to
that is 9fans with just the technical content and none of
the whining.  (so this message wouldn't make it through.)

russ


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
  2007-11-21 21:08                   ` Navin Johnson
@ 2007-11-21 22:59                     ` Uriel
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Uriel @ 2007-11-21 22:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs

http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/FAQ/

And if it looks like a 'brochure' now, maybe you should check how it
looked like a few months ago before somebody
decided to 'fix it' (nothing against the efforts of that individual,
I'm just not convinced of their usefulness).

In any case, what needs work in the wiki is the content, reorganizing
it might help, but please, if you do so make sure to finish
rather than leave the whole thing in some random state of flush which
is how the wiki has spent most of its life.

uriel

On Nov 21, 2007 10:08 PM, Navin Johnson <navin.r.j@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 21, 2007 11:30 PM, David Leimbach <leimy2k@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > That was what I was going to suggest.... Even a well structured wiki
> > page might be better than nothing at this point.
>
> I'd like to lend a hand with the wiki. Just let me know what you need.
> I've thought about changing the wiki to read more like a FAQ than a
> Plan 9 marketing brochure.
>
> Navin
>


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
  2007-11-21 14:30                 ` David Leimbach
  2007-11-21 15:33                   ` Uriel
@ 2007-11-21 21:08                   ` Navin Johnson
  2007-11-21 22:59                     ` Uriel
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Navin Johnson @ 2007-11-21 21:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs

On Nov 21, 2007 11:30 PM, David Leimbach <leimy2k@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> That was what I was going to suggest.... Even a well structured wiki
> page might be better than nothing at this point.

I'd like to lend a hand with the wiki. Just let me know what you need.
I've thought about changing the wiki to read more like a FAQ than a
Plan 9 marketing brochure.

Navin


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
  2007-11-21  8:23             ` Uriel
  2007-11-21 10:06               ` Robert Raschke
@ 2007-11-21 20:55               ` Navin Johnson
  2007-11-22 15:44                 ` Russ Cox
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Navin Johnson @ 2007-11-21 20:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs

On Nov 21, 2007 5:23 PM, Uriel <uriel99@gmail.com> wrote:

> please ignore anything I might ever say. (I even asked for the
> archives of 9trouble to
> be made public, but I guess even that was too radical an idea)
>
> But really, maybe asking for an issue tracking system is really
> crazy... specially when
> we can't even answer the most basic questions in 9fans, like 'what is
> the status of the
> amd64 port?'.

Does anyone see any merit in having a stacked mailing list? For
instance if you subscribe to 9-issues you'd receive 9trouble, 9fans
and plan9-announce mailing lists.

plan9-announce
9fans  (for general discussions)
9trouble (for troubleshooting problems)
9-issues (for issue tracking ml)

It's just a thought.

Navin


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
  2007-11-21 14:30                 ` David Leimbach
@ 2007-11-21 15:33                   ` Uriel
  2007-11-21 21:08                   ` Navin Johnson
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Uriel @ 2007-11-21 15:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs

> > Set one up, people might surprise you and use it.
> >
> > Robby
> >
> >
> >
> That was what I was going to suggest.... Even a well structured wiki
> page might be better than nothing at this point.

I did just that years ago: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/errata/

I'm pleased to see Geoff actually updated that page some months ago
(to point out ms2html is deprecated).

uriel


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
  2007-11-21 10:06               ` Robert Raschke
@ 2007-11-21 14:30                 ` David Leimbach
  2007-11-21 15:33                   ` Uriel
  2007-11-21 21:08                   ` Navin Johnson
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: David Leimbach @ 2007-11-21 14:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs

On Nov 21, 2007 2:06 AM, Robert Raschke <rrplan9@tombob.com> wrote:
> Uriel wrote around Wed 21 Nov 08:27:
> > On Nov 20, 2007 11:42 PM, David Leimbach <leimy2k@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Nov 20, 2007 1:36 PM, Uriel <uriel99@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > Read 9fans archives, replica/pull has wiped out more than a handful of systems,
> >> > if you run venti you can recover, but it is not fun.
> >> >
> >>
> >> I think I just realized I don't have time for Plan 9 anymore.  At
> >> least not until it gets a real issue tracking system.
> >>
> >
> > You are by far not the first one to have this 'crazy' realization, I
> > (and others) have been
> > clamoring for an issue tracking system for many years, but hey, I'm
> > just a clown, so
> > please ignore anything I might ever say. (I even asked for the
> > archives of 9trouble to
> > be made public, but I guess even that was too radical an idea)
> >
>
>
> Set one up, people might surprise you and use it.
>
> Robby
>
>
>
That was what I was going to suggest.... Even a well structured wiki
page might be better than nothing at this point.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
  2007-11-21  8:23             ` Uriel
@ 2007-11-21 10:06               ` Robert Raschke
  2007-11-21 14:30                 ` David Leimbach
  2007-11-21 20:55               ` Navin Johnson
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Robert Raschke @ 2007-11-21 10:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Uriel wrote around Wed 21 Nov 08:27:
> On Nov 20, 2007 11:42 PM, David Leimbach <leimy2k@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Nov 20, 2007 1:36 PM, Uriel <uriel99@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Read 9fans archives, replica/pull has wiped out more than a handful of systems,
>> > if you run venti you can recover, but it is not fun.
>> >
>>
>> I think I just realized I don't have time for Plan 9 anymore.  At
>> least not until it gets a real issue tracking system.
>>
> 
> You are by far not the first one to have this 'crazy' realization, I
> (and others) have been
> clamoring for an issue tracking system for many years, but hey, I'm
> just a clown, so
> please ignore anything I might ever say. (I even asked for the
> archives of 9trouble to
> be made public, but I guess even that was too radical an idea)
> 


Set one up, people might surprise you and use it.

Robby



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
  2007-11-20 22:42           ` David Leimbach
  2007-11-20 23:09             ` dave.l
@ 2007-11-21  8:23             ` Uriel
  2007-11-21 10:06               ` Robert Raschke
  2007-11-21 20:55               ` Navin Johnson
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Uriel @ 2007-11-21  8:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs

On Nov 20, 2007 11:42 PM, David Leimbach <leimy2k@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 20, 2007 1:36 PM, Uriel <uriel99@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Read 9fans archives, replica/pull has wiped out more than a handful of systems,
> > if you run venti you can recover, but it is not fun.
> >
>
> I think I just realized I don't have time for Plan 9 anymore.  At
> least not until it gets a real issue tracking system.
>

You are by far not the first one to have this 'crazy' realization, I
(and others) have been
clamoring for an issue tracking system for many years, but hey, I'm
just a clown, so
please ignore anything I might ever say. (I even asked for the
archives of 9trouble to
be made public, but I guess even that was too radical an idea)

But really, maybe asking for an issue tracking system is really
crazy... specially when
we can't even answer the most basic questions in 9fans, like 'what is
the status of the
amd64 port?'.

uriel


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
  2007-11-20 18:58       ` erik quanstrom
@ 2007-11-21  3:08         ` lucio
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: lucio @ 2007-11-21  3:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

>> (Now that we have python we could use hg... although I fail to quite
>> see the issue with plain tarballs)
> 
> might depend on what you're doing.

When you're at the end of a 64kbps Internet link, a tarball is
suboptimal.

++L


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
  2007-11-20 15:46 Federico Benavento
  2007-11-20 15:53 ` erik quanstrom
@ 2007-11-21  0:04 ` Steve Simon
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Steve Simon @ 2007-11-21  0:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> I'm going to start using replica for the stuff I have
> in my contrib

Perhaps its just me, I guess it is.

replica has never trashed any on my machines
and has always worked flawlessly (occasionally it
has gone chatty but this has never lasted).

The only problem I have had with replica is my
own in-ability to configure it to sync two
machines (I must try again/harder).

I plan to do the same with my contrib stuff.

-Steve


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
  2007-11-20 23:57             ` Federico Benavento
@ 2007-11-21  0:01               ` erik quanstrom
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: erik quanstrom @ 2007-11-21  0:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Tue Nov 20 18:59:51 EST 2007, benavento@gmail.com wrote:
> > i have seen the case where applychanges was very slow.  but using cphist
> > instead solved the problem.  i can't explain why applychanges can be very
> > slow for me.
> 
> I if I'm not mistaken, applychanges uses a single proc, where applylog has
> more workers.
> 

you're right.  i ment applylog.

- erik


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
  2007-11-20 23:09             ` dave.l
@ 2007-11-20 23:59               ` David Leimbach
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: David Leimbach @ 2007-11-20 23:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs

On Nov 20, 2007 3:09 PM,  <dave.l@mac.com> wrote:
> > I think I just realized I don't have time for Plan 9 anymore.  At
> > least not until it gets a real issue tracking system.
>
> By the time you've got your head around the issue tracking system,
> you'll have even less time for plan9:-).

I don't know about that... When I have Plan 9 problems, I don't like
having to troll mail archives to figure out what's a current problem
or a closed and old issue.

At least Inferno has something and it's seemingly very useful for
those participating.

Dave


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
  2007-11-20 21:46           ` erik quanstrom
  2007-11-20 22:04             ` anyrhine
@ 2007-11-20 23:57             ` Federico Benavento
  2007-11-21  0:01               ` erik quanstrom
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Federico Benavento @ 2007-11-20 23:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs

> i have seen the case where applychanges was very slow.  but using cphist
> instead solved the problem.  i can't explain why applychanges can be very
> slow for me.

I if I'm not mistaken, applychanges uses a single proc, where applylog has
more workers.

-- 
Federico G. Benavento


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
  2007-11-20 22:42           ` David Leimbach
@ 2007-11-20 23:09             ` dave.l
  2007-11-20 23:59               ` David Leimbach
  2007-11-21  8:23             ` Uriel
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: dave.l @ 2007-11-20 23:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs

> I think I just realized I don't have time for Plan 9 anymore.  At
> least not until it gets a real issue tracking system.

By the time you've got your head around the issue tracking system,
you'll have even less time for plan9:-).

The problem is that unless it's easy and compelling,
no-one will use it.

Also, having worked in support rôles for many years,
I have yet to see an issue tracking system that didn't make me puke  
on sight.
(Well, OK, Redmine isn't completely bletcherous, but it's written in  
RoR:-).

D


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
  2007-11-20 21:36         ` Uriel
  2007-11-20 21:46           ` erik quanstrom
@ 2007-11-20 22:42           ` David Leimbach
  2007-11-20 23:09             ` dave.l
  2007-11-21  8:23             ` Uriel
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: David Leimbach @ 2007-11-20 22:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs

On Nov 20, 2007 1:36 PM, Uriel <uriel99@gmail.com> wrote:
> Read 9fans archives, replica/pull has wiped out more than a handful of systems,
> if you run venti you can recover, but it is not fun.
>

I think I just realized I don't have time for Plan 9 anymore.  At
least not until it gets a real issue tracking system.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
  2007-11-20 21:46           ` erik quanstrom
@ 2007-11-20 22:04             ` anyrhine
  2007-11-20 23:57             ` Federico Benavento
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: anyrhine @ 2007-11-20 22:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 638 bytes --]

the latency problem does not show up before you
have actual propagation delay. if you're next
door with a 34k modem, all your latency is bare
transmission time (time spent stuffing bits along
the wire), and you are prefectly happy because
your link gets full utilization.

now, if you are physically 200ms away and have a 
the fastest link on the planet, you might be less
than happy using 1 second [Twalk Topen, Tread, Tread,
Tclunk] to read a file of any size, because your
fast and fancy link isn't used, so you're paying for
nothing.

the problem really does exist, but there are bigger
ones that are easier to solve.

[-- Attachment #2: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 3515 bytes --]

From: erik quanstrom <quanstro@coraid.com>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 16:46:22 -0500
Message-ID: <333c3d5c4dfff180853969bcfdf2b867@coraid.com>

> Read 9fans archives, replica/pull has wiped out more than a handful of systems,
> if you run venti you can recover, but it is not fun.

i think a few well-choosen hurestics could solve most of these cases.

> And as erik points out, replica also has trouble with many corner cases.
> 
> And finally, it is incredibly slow, but that is probably mostly due to
> 9p's latency sensitivity.

i just don't see the latency problem.  even when i was using a 34k modem,
updates were pretty quick, 

i have seen the case where applychanges was very slow.  but using cphist
instead solved the problem.  i can't explain why applychanges can be very
slow for me.

- erik

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
  2007-11-20 21:36         ` Uriel
@ 2007-11-20 21:46           ` erik quanstrom
  2007-11-20 22:04             ` anyrhine
  2007-11-20 23:57             ` Federico Benavento
  2007-11-20 22:42           ` David Leimbach
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: erik quanstrom @ 2007-11-20 21:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> Read 9fans archives, replica/pull has wiped out more than a handful of systems,
> if you run venti you can recover, but it is not fun.

i think a few well-choosen hurestics could solve most of these cases.

> And as erik points out, replica also has trouble with many corner cases.
> 
> And finally, it is incredibly slow, but that is probably mostly due to
> 9p's latency sensitivity.

i just don't see the latency problem.  even when i was using a 34k modem,
updates were pretty quick, 

i have seen the case where applychanges was very slow.  but using cphist
instead solved the problem.  i can't explain why applychanges can be very
slow for me.

- erik


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
  2007-11-20 20:21       ` David Leimbach
  2007-11-20 21:09         ` erik quanstrom
@ 2007-11-20 21:36         ` Uriel
  2007-11-20 21:46           ` erik quanstrom
  2007-11-20 22:42           ` David Leimbach
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Uriel @ 2007-11-20 21:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs

Read 9fans archives, replica/pull has wiped out more than a handful of systems,
if you run venti you can recover, but it is not fun.

And as erik points out, replica also has trouble with many corner cases.

And finally, it is incredibly slow, but that is probably mostly due to
9p's latency sensitivity.

uriel

On Nov 20, 2007 9:21 PM, David Leimbach <leimy2k@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 20, 2007 10:31 AM, Uriel <uriel99@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 20, 2007 4:57 PM, Federico Benavento <benavento@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > lsr, replica, for me are the same.
> > > I don't wan't people to have to download
> > > a big .tgz just because I edited one line
> > > of code. Plus with the ported stuff it gets
> > > worst, there are people that because
> > > of lack of memory, or whatever can't
> > > even build the libs, that's why I'm
> > > including binaries
> >
> > Maybe we could fix swap instead so people could actually build stuff
> > without crashing their kernels?
> >
> > > replica was already there,
> >
> > I don't like replica, it is too fragile and too slow, but I don't
> > think my opinion on this matters much.
> >
>
> What fragility are you referring to?  I've heard about it being
> fragile but am unable to find anything to back up the claim.
>
> Dave
>


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
  2007-11-20 20:21       ` David Leimbach
@ 2007-11-20 21:09         ` erik quanstrom
  2007-11-20 21:36         ` Uriel
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: erik quanstrom @ 2007-11-20 21:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> 
> What fragility are you referring to?  I've heard about it being
> fragile but am unable to find anything to back up the claim.
> 

there are several corner cases that are not handled by replica well.
for instance, if i replace a file with a directory, replica won't do things
in the necessary order.  there are several other corner cases that don't
seem to work well.  i also tend to have trouble with replica hanging.

the cphist program i wrote to copy history for my fileserver migration
along with some modifications to make updatedb try a little harder
are on sources in /n/sources/contrib/quanstro/src/replica.

they're not perfect, but i could live with their faults.

- erik


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
  2007-11-20 18:31     ` Uriel
  2007-11-20 18:58       ` erik quanstrom
  2007-11-20 19:30       ` Gabriel Diaz
@ 2007-11-20 20:21       ` David Leimbach
  2007-11-20 21:09         ` erik quanstrom
  2007-11-20 21:36         ` Uriel
  2 siblings, 2 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: David Leimbach @ 2007-11-20 20:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs

On Nov 20, 2007 10:31 AM, Uriel <uriel99@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 20, 2007 4:57 PM, Federico Benavento <benavento@gmail.com> wrote:
> > lsr, replica, for me are the same.
> > I don't wan't people to have to download
> > a big .tgz just because I edited one line
> > of code. Plus with the ported stuff it gets
> > worst, there are people that because
> > of lack of memory, or whatever can't
> > even build the libs, that's why I'm
> > including binaries
>
> Maybe we could fix swap instead so people could actually build stuff
> without crashing their kernels?
>
> > replica was already there,
>
> I don't like replica, it is too fragile and too slow, but I don't
> think my opinion on this matters much.
>

What fragility are you referring to?  I've heard about it being
fragile but am unable to find anything to back up the claim.

Dave


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
  2007-11-20 18:31     ` Uriel
  2007-11-20 18:58       ` erik quanstrom
@ 2007-11-20 19:30       ` Gabriel Diaz
  2007-11-20 20:21       ` David Leimbach
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Gabriel Diaz @ 2007-11-20 19:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs

hello

>
> Maybe we could fix swap instead so people could actually build stuff
> without crashing their kernels?
>

8c gets killed nicely when going out of ram, the system is still running :)

> (Now that we have python we could use hg... although I fail to quite
> see the issue with plain tarballs)
>

The problem with big packages is always the same, downloading the whole
thing to get something tiny updated is a waste of resources.

isn't this why replica was born?

slds.

gabi


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
@ 2007-11-20 19:29 Erik Quanstrom
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Erik Quanstrom @ 2007-11-20 19:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Nov 20, 2007 10:53 AM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
> > or we could just leave things as they are
> > making difficult to keep track of changes.
> 
> if one is without replica, one can track changes on sources
> with history and ls -ltr.
> 
> this is how i keep track of changes on my systems so
> it's more consistent, if not better, than using replica.

by the way, if the datestamp of the file is not the current
day (you know, cp -x), you'll miss the file this way.

- erik


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
  2007-11-20 18:31     ` Uriel
@ 2007-11-20 18:58       ` erik quanstrom
  2007-11-21  3:08         ` lucio
  2007-11-20 19:30       ` Gabriel Diaz
  2007-11-20 20:21       ` David Leimbach
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: erik quanstrom @ 2007-11-20 18:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> > replica was already there,
> 
> I don't like replica, it is too fragile and too slow, but I don't
> think my opinion on this matters much.
> 
> (Now that we have python we could use hg... although I fail to quite
> see the issue with plain tarballs)

might depend on what you're doing.

when updating something on sources, i find it much easier
to copy the few modified files than to fiddle around making
a tarball. i also appreciate being able to use standard tools
on the beast in place like diff, history, etc.

it's been less error-prone for me, too.

- erik


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
  2007-11-20 15:57   ` Federico Benavento
@ 2007-11-20 18:31     ` Uriel
  2007-11-20 18:58       ` erik quanstrom
                         ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Uriel @ 2007-11-20 18:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs

On Nov 20, 2007 4:57 PM, Federico Benavento <benavento@gmail.com> wrote:
> lsr, replica, for me are the same.
> I don't wan't people to have to download
> a big .tgz just because I edited one line
> of code. Plus with the ported stuff it gets
> worst, there are people that because
> of lack of memory, or whatever can't
> even build the libs, that's why I'm
> including binaries

Maybe we could fix swap instead so people could actually build stuff
without crashing their kernels?

> replica was already there,

I don't like replica, it is too fragile and too slow, but I don't
think my opinion on this matters much.

(Now that we have python we could use hg... although I fail to quite
see the issue with plain tarballs)

uriel

>the principle
> still applies, you can't keeping track
> of files inside tar files is not the same.
>
>
>
> On Nov 20, 2007 12:53 PM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
> > > or we could just leave things as they are
> > > making difficult to keep track of changes.
> >
> > if one is without replica, one can track changes on sources
> > with history and ls -ltr.
> >
> > this is how i keep track of changes on my systems so
> > it's more consistent, if not better, than using replica.
> >
> > - erik
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Federico G. Benavento
>


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
  2007-11-20 15:53 ` erik quanstrom
@ 2007-11-20 15:57   ` Federico Benavento
  2007-11-20 18:31     ` Uriel
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: Federico Benavento @ 2007-11-20 15:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs

lsr, replica, for me are the same.
I don't wan't people to have to download
a big .tgz just because I edited one line
of code. Plus with the ported stuff it gets
worst, there are people that because
of lack of memory, or whatever can't
even build the libs, that's why I'm
including binaries

replica was already there, the principle
still applies, you can't keeping track
of files inside tar files is not the same.


On Nov 20, 2007 12:53 PM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
> > or we could just leave things as they are
> > making difficult to keep track of changes.
>
> if one is without replica, one can track changes on sources
> with history and ls -ltr.
>
> this is how i keep track of changes on my systems so
> it's more consistent, if not better, than using replica.
>
> - erik
>
>



-- 
Federico G. Benavento


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
  2007-11-20 15:46 Federico Benavento
@ 2007-11-20 15:53 ` erik quanstrom
  2007-11-20 15:57   ` Federico Benavento
  2007-11-21  0:04 ` Steve Simon
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 33+ messages in thread
From: erik quanstrom @ 2007-11-20 15:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

> or we could just leave things as they are
> making difficult to keep track of changes.

if one is without replica, one can track changes on sources
with history and ls -ltr.

this is how i keep track of changes on my systems so
it's more consistent, if not better, than using replica.

- erik


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread

* [9fans] sources/contrib
@ 2007-11-20 15:46 Federico Benavento
  2007-11-20 15:53 ` erik quanstrom
  2007-11-21  0:04 ` Steve Simon
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 33+ messages in thread
From: Federico Benavento @ 2007-11-20 15:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

hola,

I'm going to start using replica for the stuff I have
in my contrib, a .proto per package, some of them
may overlap, for instance ImageMagick's proto
would include the required libs.

Right now I have a script 2 scripts: contrib-push
and contrib-pull, the name says it all, now that
I kinda know how replica works, those are no needed.

Now, conventions are needed:
contrib/$user/replica:  protos dbs and logs
contrib/$user/root:
contrib/$user/tar/

or we could just leave things as they are
making difficult to keep track of changes.

comments, suggestions and critics are welcome.

-- 
Federico G. Benavento


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 33+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2021-02-02 12:50 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 33+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2021-01-26 22:01 [9fans] sources/contrib Pouya Tafti
2021-01-26 22:23 ` sirjofri
2021-01-26 23:10   ` Pouya Tafti
2021-01-26 23:28   ` Pouya Tafti
2021-01-26 22:33 ` David du Colombier
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2007-11-20 19:29 Erik Quanstrom
2007-11-20 15:46 Federico Benavento
2007-11-20 15:53 ` erik quanstrom
2007-11-20 15:57   ` Federico Benavento
2007-11-20 18:31     ` Uriel
2007-11-20 18:58       ` erik quanstrom
2007-11-21  3:08         ` lucio
2007-11-20 19:30       ` Gabriel Diaz
2007-11-20 20:21       ` David Leimbach
2007-11-20 21:09         ` erik quanstrom
2007-11-20 21:36         ` Uriel
2007-11-20 21:46           ` erik quanstrom
2007-11-20 22:04             ` anyrhine
2007-11-20 23:57             ` Federico Benavento
2007-11-21  0:01               ` erik quanstrom
2007-11-20 22:42           ` David Leimbach
2007-11-20 23:09             ` dave.l
2007-11-20 23:59               ` David Leimbach
2007-11-21  8:23             ` Uriel
2007-11-21 10:06               ` Robert Raschke
2007-11-21 14:30                 ` David Leimbach
2007-11-21 15:33                   ` Uriel
2007-11-21 21:08                   ` Navin Johnson
2007-11-21 22:59                     ` Uriel
2007-11-21 20:55               ` Navin Johnson
2007-11-22 15:44                 ` Russ Cox
2007-11-22 19:48                   ` Uriel
2007-11-21  0:04 ` Steve Simon

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