From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 18:24:50 +0100 From: Eris Discordia To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Message-ID: <393394D0A7F3F4A227F94CDA@[192.168.1.2]> In-Reply-To: <3aaafc130909052123h2dacb56ck99d6a5302f972ae0@mail.gmail.com> References: <7d3530220909050736h693c665ere5b8346c4569c7e1@mail.gmail.com> <3aaafc130909052123h2dacb56ck99d6a5302f972ae0@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Subject: Re: [9fans] nice quote Topicbox-Message-UUID: 66a4c420-ead5-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 > There's a talk Doug McIllroy gave where he joked about how he > basically invented (or rather, discovered) recursion because someone > said ``Hey, what would happen if we made a FORTRAN routine call > itself?'' IIRC he had to tinker with the compiler to get it to accept > the idea, and at first, no one realized what it would be good for. Are you implying Doug McIlroy hadn't been taught about (and inevitably=20 occupied by) Church-Turing Thesis or even before that Ackermann function=20 and had to wait to be inspired by a comment in passing about FORTRAN to=20 realize the importance of recursion?! This was a rhetorical question, of=20 course. --On Sunday, September 06, 2009 00:23 -0400 "J.R. Mauro"=20 wrote: > On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 2:26 PM, erik quanstrom > wrote: >> i'm not a lisp fan. =C2=A0but it's discouraging to see >> such lack of substance as the following (collected >> from a few posts): >> >>> Oh, yay, a Xah Lee quote, he's surely a trusted source on all things >>> Lisp. Didja read his page about hiring a prostitute in Las Vegas? Or >>> the one about how he lives in a car in the Bay Area because he's too >>> crazy to get hired? >> >> surely an ad hominum attack like this neither furthers an >> argument nor informs anyone. >> >>> I forgot this: Graham basically accuses programmers who don't find LISP >>> as attractive (or powerful, as he puts it) as he does of living on = lower >>> planes of existence from which the "heavens above" of functional (or >>> only LISP) programming seem incomprehensible. He writes/speaks >>> persuasively, he's a successful businessman, but is he also an honest >>> debater? >> >> and here i don't see an argument at all. >> >>> I just read in Wikipedia that, "Lisp's original conditional operator, >>> cond, is the precursor to later if-then-else structures," without any >>> citations. Assuming that to be true conditional branching is a >>> fundamental element of control flow and it has existed in machine >>> languages ever since early days. There's really very little to brag >>> about it. >> >> i'd love to argue this factually, but my knowledge isn't >> that extensive. =C2=A0i think you'll find in the wiki entry for >> Computer that much of what we take for granted today >> was not obvious at the time. =C2=A0stored program computers >> with branching didn't come along until about 1948 >> (einiac). =C2=A0i hope someone will fill in the gaps here. >> i think it's worth appreciating how great these early >> discoveries were. > > There's a talk Doug McIllroy gave where he joked about how he > basically invented (or rather, discovered) recursion because someone > said ``Hey, what would happen if we made a FORTRAN routine call > itself?'' IIRC he had to tinker with the compiler to get it to accept > the idea, and at first, no one realized what it would be good for. > >> >> in the same vein, i don't know anything much about file >> systems that i didn't steal from ken thompson. >> >> - erik >> >> >