From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: Eric de Redelijkheid Message-ID: <3B7AB184.3030106@xs4all.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20010814122734.A24734@cackle.proxima.alt.za>, , <200108151619.MAA07420@augusta.math.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] User Interface Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 08:28:29 +0000 Topicbox-Message-UUID: de66147a-eac9-11e9-9e20-41e7f4b1d025 Dan Cross wrote: >In article <3B793F22.5080707@xs4all.nl> you write: > >>This procedure is absurd. [...] >> > >Rather, your behavior is absurd. > >Let me get this straight; you use a piece of software, but with >pre-conceived notions about how it should work. When it's borne out >that those notions don't mesh with the reality the software presents, >you complain about and insult the software? > >And this makes sense to you? > More sense than making this piece of crap and then blaming users if they don't appreciate it? I think insults can work out in two way's. Either the software designers come up with something better, or there will be nothing left to insult. > > >I mean, not to be rude or anything, but this sounds more like your >issue than Plan 9's. > >All I can really say is, well, if notepad.exe works for you, stick with >it. Why you bothering to change? What's your motivation? If you're >not going to attempt to learn a new way of doing things, and it sounds >like you're not, you should probably just stick with what you know. > I am very willing to learn new things. This OS, however does not invite a me to learn about it. For your information I finally figured how to operate 'acme' and 'sam' and I still think it is stinks. It won't be long before I wipe my harddisk. I am thinking of trying beos instead. My motivation is not to put up with any illconceived idea about how a computer should be operated. > > >On a personal note, I really like Plan 9. It's a lot like a breath of >fresh air for me; but then I like to think that I'm able to appreciate >the new ideas that went into it, which took me quite a long time before >I was able to do. Maybe Dennis Ritchie and Rob Pike don't appreciate >my humor about 1200 baud modems (:-p), but they do know a thing or two >about how to write operating systems. > These new ideas won't mean a thing if you can't get ordinary human beings to work with it. And knowing a thing or two about operating systems, does not mean they know anything about how someone in the real world would want to use a computer. > >Hmm, maybe it's that stuff they sell in Amsterdam.... > You could not point the place on a map if you wanted to. What are your hobbies besides computing and shooting strangers of your farm? > > >Oh, one other thing: I don't think the `goal' of Plan 9 was wide-spread >acceptance. It was built to meet the needs of the people who built >it. There's nothing wrong with that, and it certainly wasn't a waste >of time. This can be seen empirically by the fact that they've used it >for years to get real work done. To the extent that it's provided a >new way of looking at things, I think it's been rather successful as a >research endeavour, too. Don't make the mistake of assuming that every >piece of software needs to be written for a mass-audience of millions >in order to be successful or useful. > Then why is it for sale? To hurt users? If it is just an excercise in building a distributed operating system, why let it out of the lab? > > >That's all I'll say on the issue; I have no real desire to participate >in a flame war over opinions on user interface issues. > > - Dan C. > And I don't want to hear excuses like: if a user can't operate our software, we are not to blame; this user must be stupid, or: I can operate this software, so logicly if I can, anyone can.