Re: [9fans] a bit OT, programming style question

["J.R. Mauro" <jrm8005@gmail.com>]

On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 6:34 PM, Eris Discordia <eris.discordia@gmail.com> wrote:
>> this is the "space-shuttle dichotomy."  it's a false one.  it's a
>> continuum. its ends are dangerous.
>
> So somewhere in the middle is the golden mean? I have no objections to that.
> *BSD systems very well represent a silver, if not a golden, mean--just my
> idea, of course.
>
>> it is interesting to me that some software manages to run off both
>> ends of this continuum at the same time.  in linux your termcap
>> from 1981 will still work, but software written to access /sys last
>> year is likely out-of-date.
>
> While I won't vouch for Linux as a good OS (user-land and kernel combined) I
> understand what you see as its eccentricity is merely a side-effect of
> openness. Tighten the development up and you get a BSD-style system
> (committer/contributor/maintainer/grunt/user highest-to-lowest ranking, with
> a demiurge position for Theo de Raadt). Tighten it even further up with
> in-ken shared among a core group of old-timers and thoroughbreds transmitted
> only to serious researchers and you get Plan 9.
>
> You are right, after all. It all lies on a continuum. Actually, more tightly
> regulated Linux distros such as Slackware readily demonstrate that; they
> easily beat all-out all-open distros like Fedora (whose existence is
> probably perceived at Red Hat as a big brainstorming project).
>
>> your insinuation that *bsd is a real serious system and plan 9 is
>> a research system doesn't make any historical sense to me.  they
>> both started as research systems.  i am not aware of any law that
>> prevents a system that started as a research project from becoming
>> a serious production system.
>
> What I am insinuating is more like this: any serious system will sooner or
> later have to grow warts and/or contract herpes. That's an unavoidable
> consequence of social life. If you do insist that Plan 9 has no warts, or
> far less warts than the average, or that it has never seen a cold sore on
> its upper lip then I'll happily conclude it has never lived socially. And I
> haven't really ever used Plan 9 or "been into it." The no-herpes indicator
> is that strong.

So you're saying that I don't have a social life since I've never gotten herpes?

I suppose from your demeanor that we can compare you to, say, Windows ME?

>
>> i know of many thousands of plan 9 systems in production right
>> now.
>
> Good for you. Honestly.
>
> --On Thursday, April 09, 2009 11:06 AM -0400 erik quanstrom
> <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
>
>> On Thu Apr  9 10:48:08 EDT 2009, eris.discordia@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Most of it in the 19 lines for one TERMCAP variable. Strictly a relic of
>>> the past kept with all good intentions: backward compatibility, and
>>> heeding
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> Quite a considerable portion of UNIX-like systems, FreeBSD in this case,
>>> is  the way it is not because the developers are stupid, rather because
>>> they  have a "constituency" to tend to. They aren't carefree researchers
>>> with  high ambitions.
>>
>> this is the "space-shuttle dichotomy."  it's a false one.  it's a
>> continuum. its ends are dangerous.
>>
>> on the one hand, if you change things, the new things are likely
>> to be buggy.  on the space shuttle, this is bad.  people die.
>>
>> on the other hand, systems are not perfect.  and if the problems
>> are not addressed, eventually the system will need to much fixing
>> and will be abandoned.
>>
>> yet bringing a new system on line is an even bigger risk.  everything
>> is new simultaneously.
>>
>> it is interesting to me that some software manages to run off both
>> ends of this continuum at the same time.  in linux your termcap
>> from 1981 will still work, but software written to access /sys last
>> year is likely out-of-date.
>>
>> your insinuation that *bsd is a real serious system and plan 9 is
>> a research system doesn't make any historical sense to me.  they
>> both started as research systems.  i am not aware of any law that
>> prevents a system that started as a research project from becoming
>> a serious production system.
>>
>> i know of many thousands of plan 9 systems in production right
>> now.
>>
>> - erik
>>
>
>