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identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="sirjofri+ml-9fans@sirjofri.de"; helo=oat.nine.sirjofri.de; client-ip=5.45.105.127 Received: from oat.nine.sirjofri.de (oat.nine.sirjofri.de [5.45.105.127]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tb-mx0.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS for <9fans@9fans.net>; Thu, 19 Aug 2021 03:59:44 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sirjofri+ml-9fans@sirjofri.de) Received: from sirjofri.de ([95.90.218.182]) by oat; Thu Aug 19 09:59:42 +0200 2021 Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2021 07:59:41 +0000 (UTC) From: sirjofri To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Message-ID: <3cdfcd26-b11d-4140-a9fb-cae0304e6ca2@sirjofri.de> In-Reply-To: References: <16293151820.7F7690f.28382@composer.9fans.topicbox.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Software philosophy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Correlation-ID: <3cdfcd26-b11d-4140-a9fb-cae0304e6ca2@sirjofri.de> Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: 6d887a4c-00c3-11ec-bc0e-a41286b228e5 Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UOWVmNjQzMGYzMDI1ZTczMS1NYzdhNDgxNWM1MmFjYjJlZTU2YjIw?= =?UTF-8?B?ZjIzPg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:Mc7a4815c52acb2ee56b20f23:1:LXwuGXM_71mAN_v64RPD8Q4IRAW1SNscb-ZDOSY28FE Hello dear community, I've read through many things in this thread and just want to add some=20 two cents in a list format: 1) p9f (to my knowledge) never said anything about The One Plan 9. This=20 was afaik the idea of some other community member, and I never heard any=20 statement by p9f about that. 2) In fact, p9f is pretty silent, not only these days. This could be a=20 good sign, as they let community be what they are, only occasionally=20 taking part in it. 3) the p9f website promotes links to the Plan 9 archive software (V1-V4),=20 9legacy as "Plan 9 with many useful patches", the RPi version and other=20 Plan 9 resources. 9front is _never_ mentioned at all. It seems like they=20 don't consider 9front as a Plan 9 system at all. I don't know why, it's possible they just don't want it to exist or they=20 don't know how to see it. It just hurts me personally as a community=20 person who uses 9front and not the original Plan 9. And it's confusing.=20 Am I even a Plan 9 user? The core OS principles are the same and most=20 "shell" concepts also. 4) The split between original Plan9/9legacy and the 9front fork is=20 reflected in a split between communities. David and the 9front core devs=20 already showed that they are generally willing to share and accept=20 patches and I never noticed any bad tone in their discussion, however the=20 community is split up. And I don't think that we are so big that we _had_=20 to split up, there are other reasons, maybe historical reasons I don't=20 know as a "fresh" community member with only ~5 years. 5) I really wished p9f would tell us more about their plans. It really=20 seems like it's what we (9gridchan chat) feared in the beginning: a=20 secret society. p9f is very silent, currently only seems to manage GSoC=20 and nothing more. They told us they needed time to organize GSoC and=20 themselves, but that was in january/february! It's fine if they want to be silent, but it would be nice to see what we=20 can expect from them. Currently it seems like they just want to share=20 links to 9legacy and the archive and organize GSoC and hide the fact that=20 9front exists. 6) p9f had a page about their purpose. It was like, they want to promote=20 all Plan 9 systems and related technologies: 9atom, 9legacy, ... missing=20 the (apparently) most obvious one: 9front. I couldn't find the page=20 anymore. Other dubious sources can be found on the 9front /who/ site=20 about p9f, where they apparently stole resources from 9front/cat-v pages.=20 Very suspicious somehow. 7) To clarify: I don't want to see p9f as bad. I want to see them as a=20 nice organization which is open for community efforts that need some=20 official site. I want to see other community members/devs there, maybe=20 one 9front contributor. I want to see them mentioning 9front like they=20 mention other Plan 9 projects. I want to see p9f members open their=20 mouths sometimes (which does happen) and take part in the community. These are my wishes and notes, everything from my perspective. sirjofri ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T9ef6430f3025e731-Mc7a48= 15c52acb2ee56b20f23 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription