From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: <3e1162e60511191808u69a2cd4fhd3cd2429bd0e5e41@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 18:08:39 -0800 From: David Leimbach To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_14280_10397825.1132452519337" Subject: [9fans] wmii? 9p2000 compliant window manager. Topicbox-Message-UUID: adcb1d5e-ead0-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 ------=_Part_14280_10397825.1132452519337 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline This is interesting perhaps: http://www.wmii.de/ I wonder how far of this 9base stuff they are using is from the Plan 9 userspace stuff Russ maintains. The last official release was called "Boyd". Looks like linux gets a leg up on this window manager with v9fs too. "9p2k compliance of all wmii fileservers, which will provide the ability to mount into the filesystem beginning with Linux kernel 2.6.14 natively (thankfully it'll contain 9p2k support)" Seems really excellent. Too bad it still needs X11 :) Dave ------=_Part_14280_10397825.1132452519337 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline This is interesting perhaps:

http://www.wmii.de/

I wonder how far of this 9base stuff they are using is from the Plan 9 user= space stuff Russ maintains.

The last official release was called "Boyd".

Looks like linux gets a leg up on this window manager with v9fs too.

"9p2k compliance of all wmii fileservers, which will provide the abili= ty to mount into the filesystem beginning with Linux kernel 2.6.14 natively (thankfully it'll contain 9p2k support)"

Seems really excellent.  Too bad it still needs X11 :)

Dave


------=_Part_14280_10397825.1132452519337-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 21:44:39 -0500 From: Russ Cox To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] wmii? 9p2000 compliant window manager. In-Reply-To: <3e1162e60511191808u69a2cd4fhd3cd2429bd0e5e41@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <3e1162e60511191808u69a2cd4fhd3cd2429bd0e5e41@mail.gmail.com> Topicbox-Message-UUID: add15016-ead0-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 > Seems really excellent. Too bad it still needs X11 :) Too bad his acme is ugly. (http://wmii.de/shots/20050818.png) Russ From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] wmii? 9p2000 compliant window manager. Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 06:04:13 +0200 From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: <3e1162e60511191808u69a2cd4fhd3cd2429bd0e5e41@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Topicbox-Message-UUID: add970f2-ead0-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 > I wonder how far of this 9base stuff they are using is from the Plan 9 > userspace stuff Russ maintains. If so, they left out his name from the contributor's list. Uriel, what gives? I'm going to give it a try under NetBSD, just to see how portable it is. ++L From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: erik quanstrom To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, Russ Cox References: <3e1162e60511191808u69a2cd4fhd3cd2429bd0e5e41@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [9fans] wmii? 9p2000 compliant window manager. Message-Id: <20051120041443.0E6121B197D@dexter-peak.quanstro.net> Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 22:14:43 -0600 Cc: Topicbox-Message-UUID: ade67f9a-ead0-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 you weren't a kiddin'. Russ Cox writes | | > Seems really excellent. Too bad it still needs X11 :) | | Too bad his acme is ugly. (http://wmii.de/shots/20050818.png) | | Russ ; sendmail 9fans@cse.psu.edu rsc@swtch.com From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: erik quanstrom To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, lucio@proxima.alt.za References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [9fans] wmii? 9p2000 compliant window manager. Message-Id: <20051120043521.69DA81B197D@dexter-peak.quanstro.net> Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 22:35:21 -0600 Cc: Topicbox-Message-UUID: adf68f02-ead0-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 they only lists 19 applications. they seem to be playing fast-and-loose with the copyright though. they only list the x/mit license and credit only themselves. their man pages seem to indicate that this is just a window manager. lucio@proxima.alt.za writes | | > I wonder how far of this 9base stuff they are using is from the Plan 9 | > userspace stuff Russ maintains. | | If so, they left out his name from the contributor's list. Uriel, | what gives? | | I'm going to give it a try under NetBSD, just to see how portable it is. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 13:30:39 +0100 From: "Anselm R. Garbe" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] wmii? 9p2000 compliant window manager. Message-ID: <20051120123039.GB20958@wmii.de> References: <20051120043521.69DA81B197D@dexter-peak.quanstro.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20051120043521.69DA81B197D@dexter-peak.quanstro.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Topicbox-Message-UUID: aeb2251e-ead0-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 On Sat, Nov 19, 2005 at 10:35:21PM -0600, erik quanstrom wrote: > they only lists 19 applications. they seem to be playing fast-and-loose > with the copyright though. they only list the x/mit license and credit > only themselves. That is not true. I'm the maintainer of wmii, which does not contain any portions of plan9 code. It is developed from scratch und completely licensed under the terms of MIT license. Beginning with next version (wmii-3), which is planned for Xmas, all wmii-related servers (the core window manager, the shortcut manager, a keyboard driven menu and a pseudo-fs-router) will communicate via 9P. I implemented a unix library (libixp2) which is designed to allow very basic 9P client/server implementations, following the specs from the 9P man pages. In contrast to wmii I also packaged 9base, which I already announced on this list long ago, based on plan9port, the mk unix port - all by Russ and my Makefiles for wmii (because 9base does not depend on mk). We use 9base to configure wmii with rc scripts and included all useful userland tools we need for writing rc scripts. In contrast to plan9port we also link statically against libc. The license details of 9base are included in the tarball, I'll add them also to the 9base wiki page to clarify those things, because it seems to confuse people as this discussion shows. > their man pages seem to indicate that this is just a window manager. That is true. The next version will be simply a dynamic window manager with some tools around and the 9P interface. Regards, -- Anselm R. Garbe ><>< www.ebrag.de ><>< GPG key: 0D73F361 From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 09:35:17 -0500 From: Russ Cox To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] wmii? 9p2000 compliant window manager. In-Reply-To: <20051120123039.GB20958@wmii.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <20051120043521.69DA81B197D@dexter-peak.quanstro.net> <20051120123039.GB20958@wmii.de> Topicbox-Message-UUID: aeb85a06-ead0-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 > In contrast to plan9port we also link > statically against libc. Is there any benefit to doing this, given that the rest of the system does not? Russ From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 09:59:33 -0500 From: Russ Cox To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] wmii? 9p2000 compliant window manager. In-Reply-To: <20051120123039.GB20958@wmii.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <20051120043521.69DA81B197D@dexter-peak.quanstro.net> <20051120123039.GB20958@wmii.de> Topicbox-Message-UUID: aec95b4e-ead0-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 This made me realize that while I got permission to do so a few years ago, I never did update the u9fs license. U9fs and its pieces are made available under the usual MIT-like license. That includes fcall.h, convS2M, etc., so (addressing everyone, not just Anselm) please feel free to use these rather than reinvent the wheel for your own 9P projects. There is a new /sys/src/cmd/unix/u9fs/LICENSE on sources covering that directory. Russ From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 16:01:49 +0100 From: "Anselm R. Garbe" To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] wmii? 9p2000 compliant window manager. Message-ID: <20051120150149.GB21320@wmii.de> References: <20051120043521.69DA81B197D@dexter-peak.quanstro.net> <20051120123039.GB20958@wmii.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Topicbox-Message-UUID: aebfd6dc-ead0-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 On Sun, Nov 20, 2005 at 09:35:17AM -0500, Russ Cox wrote: > > In contrast to plan9port we also link > > statically against libc. > > Is there any benefit to doing this, > given that the rest of the system does not? Only exec() speedups due to missing dynamic linking stuff, because we execute approx. 400 processes (statically linked, which do call wmir, which is something similiar to the 9p(1) client, writing setup stuff to the file servers) while initialization through the wmirc script, but in general not noticable on modern hardware (though measurable, I determined in a dynamic rc vs static rc comparision about 500% speedup in exec() throughput, only due to the fact of static linking). In Linux dynamic loading seems pretty fast compared to OpenBSD, what I'm using frequently and where you even notice the difference between static and dynamic binary execution if you run wmii with 9base (static) OR with plan9port (dynamic). Regards, -- Anselm R. Garbe ><>< www.ebrag.de ><>< GPG key: 0D73F361 From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: erik quanstrom To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu, "Anselm R. Garbe" References: <20051120043521.69DA81B197D@dexter-peak.quanstro.net> <20051120123039.GB20958@wmii.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 In-Reply-To: <20051120123039.GB20958@wmii.de> Subject: Re: [9fans] wmii? 9p2000 compliant window manager. Message-Id: <20051121021824.1862E2F6AF@dexter-peak.quanstro.net> Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 20:18:24 -0600 Cc: Topicbox-Message-UUID: aecfb3ae-ead0-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 i guess i'm guilty of not being clear too --- i was referring to the copyright on 9base, not wmii, which appeared to me to be mit/x on the web site. thanks for clarifying things. - erik "Anselm R. Garbe" writes | | On Sat, Nov 19, 2005 at 10:35:21PM -0600, erik quanstrom wrote: | > they only lists 19 applications. they seem to be playing fast-and-loose | > with the copyright though. they only list the x/mit license and credit | > only themselves. | | That is not true. | | I'm the maintainer of wmii, which does not contain any portions | of plan9 code. It is developed from scratch und completely | licensed under the terms of MIT license. Beginning with next | version (wmii-3), which is planned for Xmas, all wmii-related | servers (the core window manager, the shortcut manager, a | keyboard driven menu and a pseudo-fs-router) will communicate | via 9P. I implemented a unix library (libixp2) which is designed | to allow very basic 9P client/server implementations, following | the specs from the 9P man pages. | | In contrast to wmii I also packaged 9base, which I already | announced on this list long ago, based on plan9port, the mk unix | port - all by Russ and my Makefiles for wmii (because 9base does | not depend on mk). We use 9base to configure wmii with rc | scripts and included all useful userland tools we need for | writing rc scripts. In contrast to plan9port we also link | statically against libc. The license details of 9base are | included in the tarball, I'll add them also to the 9base wiki | page to clarify those things, because it seems to confuse people | as this discussion shows. | | > their man pages seem to indicate that this is just a window manager. | | That is true. The next version will be simply a dynamic window | manager with some tools around and the 9P interface. | | Regards, | -- | Anselm R. Garbe ><>< www.ebrag.de ><>< GPG key: 0D73F361 From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: <3e1162e60511211008g13832c4cmd286feb2f7186404@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 10:08:00 -0800 From: David Leimbach To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] wmii? 9p2000 compliant window manager. In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_12502_17579201.1132596480699" References: <3e1162e60511191808u69a2cd4fhd3cd2429bd0e5e41@mail.gmail.com> Topicbox-Message-UUID: af9b46f4-ead0-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 ------=_Part_12502_17579201.1132596480699 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On 11/19/05, lucio@proxima.alt.za wrote: > > > I wonder how far of this 9base stuff they are using is from the Plan 9 > > userspace stuff Russ maintains. > > If so, they left out his name from the contributor's list. Uriel, > what gives? They have a special thanks to him somewhere in a README :). ------=_Part_12502_17579201.1132596480699 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline

On 11/19/05, lucio@proxima.alt.za <lucio@proxima.alt.za>= wrote:
> I won= der how far of this 9base stuff they are using is from the Plan 9
> u= serspace stuff Russ maintains.

If so, they left out his name from the contributor's list. &nb= sp;Uriel,
what gives?


They have a special thanks to him somewhere in a README :).
 


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