* [9fans] if you're looking for some fun, check out selinux ... @ 2006-07-18 19:01 Ronald G Minnich 2006-07-18 20:11 ` David Leimbach 0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Ronald G Minnich @ 2006-07-18 19:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs so, on FC5 I did a standard mount -o loop xyz /mnt cd /mnt/lib64 rm * rsync -av /lib64/* . rsync fails, you get kernel messages like this: system_u:object_r:unlabeled_t:s0 tclass=dir audit(1153270163.378:19): avc: denied { read } for pid=19059 comm="python" name="urandom" dev=tmpfs ino=1654 scontext=root:system_r:semanage_t:s0-s0:c0.c255 tcontext=system_u:object_r:device_t:s0 tclass=file audit(1153270198.018:20): avc: denied { read } for pid=19065 comm="python" name="urandom" dev=tmpfs ino=1654 scontext=root:system_r:semanage_t:s0-s0:c0.c255 tcontext=system_u:object_r:device_t:s0 tclass=file audit(1153270211.628:21): avc: denied { read } for pid=19067 comm="python" name="urandom" dev=tmpfs ino=1654 scontext=root:system_r:semanage_t:s0-s0:c0.c255 tcontext=system_u:object_r:device_t:s0 tclass=file audit(1153270220.558:22): avc: denied { read } for pid=19068 comm="python" name="urandom" dev=tmpfs ino=1654 scontext=root:system_r:semanage_t:s0-s0:c0.c255 tcontext=system_u:object_r:device_t:s0 tclass=file ah, what's it all mean? Well, there's an easy way to find out!You can see the necessary allow rules by running audit2why with this audit message as input. lots of barf like this: audit(1153270220.558:22): avc: denied { read } for pid=19068 comm="python" name="urandom" dev=tmpfs ino=1654 scontext=root:system_r:semanage_t:s0-s0:c0.c255 tcontext=system_u:object_r:device_t:s0 tclass=file Was caused by: Missing or disabled TE allow rule. Allow rules may exist but be disabled by boolean settings; check boolean settings. yee ha! OF course, it is easy to fix! dmesg | audit2allow allow mount_t unlabeled_t:filesystem { mount unmount }; allow semanage_t device_t:file read; allow semanage_t unlabeled_t:dir search; allow unlabeled_t fs_t:filesystem associate; and where does that go? well, that's a great question, thanks for asking! in /etc/selinux there is a bunch of stuff. The one you care about is this: /etc/linux/config, and before I got much further I noticed this: SELINUX=enforcing is in there, easy to fix, turn all this shit OFF! But, wow! Is this where we're all headed? I think I'm more and more motivated to move everything I can to plan 9 .... this selinux is less fun than a trip to the dentist. Plus, can you image the permutations of those rule sets over time? many and varied subtleties shall appear. It's really quite incredible. ron ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] if you're looking for some fun, check out selinux ... 2006-07-18 19:01 [9fans] if you're looking for some fun, check out selinux Ronald G Minnich @ 2006-07-18 20:11 ` David Leimbach 2006-07-18 20:16 ` Ronald G Minnich 2006-07-18 20:21 ` [9fans] if you're looking for some fun, check out selinux jmk 0 siblings, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: David Leimbach @ 2006-07-18 20:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Yeah i've got FC4 here... couldn't export a directory with samba until I located the magic flag for the new 'chcon' tool. I gave up on it after not being able to make an LDAP server work with it's own DB directories and being unable to locate the magic chcon flag. It (SELINUX) was easily turned off with a switch in a conf file, but it's such a pain in the ass, I don't know why it's in a "FC" style distribution at all. Dave On 7/18/06, Ronald G Minnich <rminnich@lanl.gov> wrote: > > so, on FC5 I did a standard mount -o loop xyz /mnt > cd /mnt/lib64 > rm * > rsync -av /lib64/* . > > rsync fails, you get kernel messages like this: > > system_u:object_r:unlabeled_t:s0 tclass=dir > audit(1153270163.378:19): avc: denied { read } for pid=19059 > comm="python" name="urandom" dev=tmpfs ino=1654 > scontext=root:system_r:semanage_t:s0-s0:c0.c255 > tcontext=system_u:object_r:device_t:s0 tclass=file > audit(1153270198.018:20): avc: denied { read } for pid=19065 > comm="python" name="urandom" dev=tmpfs ino=1654 > scontext=root:system_r:semanage_t:s0-s0:c0.c255 > tcontext=system_u:object_r:device_t:s0 tclass=file > audit(1153270211.628:21): avc: denied { read } for pid=19067 > comm="python" name="urandom" dev=tmpfs ino=1654 > scontext=root:system_r:semanage_t:s0-s0:c0.c255 > tcontext=system_u:object_r:device_t:s0 tclass=file > audit(1153270220.558:22): avc: denied { read } for pid=19068 > comm="python" name="urandom" dev=tmpfs ino=1654 > scontext=root:system_r:semanage_t:s0-s0:c0.c255 > tcontext=system_u:object_r:device_t:s0 tclass=file > > ah, what's it all mean? > > Well, there's an easy way to find out!You can see the necessary allow > rules by running audit2why with this audit message as input. > > lots of barf like this: > audit(1153270220.558:22): avc: denied { read } for pid=19068 > comm="python" name="urandom" dev=tmpfs ino=1654 > scontext=root:system_r:semanage_t:s0-s0:c0.c255 > tcontext=system_u:object_r:device_t:s0 tclass=file > Was caused by: > Missing or disabled TE allow rule. > Allow rules may exist but be disabled by boolean > settings; check boolean settings. > > yee ha! > OF course, it is easy to fix! dmesg | audit2allow > allow mount_t unlabeled_t:filesystem { mount unmount }; > allow semanage_t device_t:file read; > allow semanage_t unlabeled_t:dir search; > allow unlabeled_t fs_t:filesystem associate; > > and where does that go? well, that's a great question, thanks for asking! > > in /etc/selinux there is a bunch of stuff. The one you care about is this: > /etc/linux/config, and before I got much further I noticed this: > > SELINUX=enforcing > is in there, easy to fix, turn all this shit OFF! > > But, wow! Is this where we're all headed? I think I'm more and more > motivated to move everything I can to plan 9 .... this selinux is less > fun than a trip to the dentist. Plus, can you image the permutations of > those rule sets over time? many and varied subtleties shall appear. It's > really quite incredible. > > ron > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] if you're looking for some fun, check out selinux ... 2006-07-18 20:11 ` David Leimbach @ 2006-07-18 20:16 ` Ronald G Minnich 2006-07-18 20:31 ` David Leimbach 2006-07-18 20:21 ` [9fans] if you're looking for some fun, check out selinux jmk 1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: Ronald G Minnich @ 2006-07-18 20:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs David Leimbach wrote: > It (SELINUX) was easily turned off with a switch in a conf file, but > it's such a pain in the ass, I don't know why it's in a "FC" style > distribution at all. The bigger question, which I can't quite figure out yet, is does selinux provide some magic dust that in turn provides a level of security not attainable any other way (i.e. in something like Plan 9) ... or, is it a set of hacks to cover for an obsolete way of doing things. I am tending toward thinking the latter, now that I've worked with it a bit. Watch the discussions on labeling files, it's interesting, because the label namespace seems to be fragmenting already. ron ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: [9fans] if you're looking for some fun, check out selinux ... 2006-07-18 20:16 ` Ronald G Minnich @ 2006-07-18 20:31 ` David Leimbach 2006-07-18 23:18 ` LiteStar numnums 0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: David Leimbach @ 2006-07-18 20:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On 7/18/06, Ronald G Minnich <rminnich@lanl.gov> wrote: > David Leimbach wrote: > > > It (SELINUX) was easily turned off with a switch in a conf file, but > > it's such a pain in the ass, I don't know why it's in a "FC" style > > distribution at all. > > The bigger question, which I can't quite figure out yet, is does selinux > provide some magic dust that in turn provides a level of security not > attainable any other way (i.e. in something like Plan 9) ... or, is it a > set of hacks to cover for an obsolete way of doing things. I am tending > toward thinking the latter, now that I've worked with it a bit. Watch > the discussions on labeling files, it's interesting, because the label > namespace seems to be fragmenting already. > > ron > It's very clearly add-on technology to make up for something people felt was unmanageable in Unix. However do we really need both ACLs and SELINUX contexts? Do our files really need to have named hidden data to store this crap in? I've honestly not read any papers justifying the need for ACLs or SELINUX controls. I suddenly miss DOS. Dave ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: [9fans] if you're looking for some fun, check out selinux ... 2006-07-18 20:31 ` David Leimbach @ 2006-07-18 23:18 ` LiteStar numnums 2006-07-19 0:29 ` David Leimbach 0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: LiteStar numnums @ 2006-07-18 23:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2090 bytes --] You all seem to forget that this is a merging of anal retentive technologies from a US government bureacracy and the anarchy of 'Linux', which is not really a single anything accept a tree with lots and lots of code. This is the same US goverment (although not the same bureaucracy) that unleashed NIEM (niem.gov) onto the world, XML with no less than NINE NAMESPACES, which is supposed to be used for critical (read: things like 'Oh, the leavies may have been breached') data... On a lighter note, I've always been happy with TrustedBSD & TrustedSolaris, or OpenVMS ;-) On 7/18/06, David Leimbach <leimy2k@gmail.com> wrote: > > On 7/18/06, Ronald G Minnich <rminnich@lanl.gov> wrote: > > David Leimbach wrote: > > > > > It (SELINUX) was easily turned off with a switch in a conf file, but > > > it's such a pain in the ass, I don't know why it's in a "FC" style > > > distribution at all. > > > > The bigger question, which I can't quite figure out yet, is does selinux > > provide some magic dust that in turn provides a level of security not > > attainable any other way (i.e. in something like Plan 9) ... or, is it a > > set of hacks to cover for an obsolete way of doing things. I am tending > > toward thinking the latter, now that I've worked with it a bit. Watch > > the discussions on labeling files, it's interesting, because the label > > namespace seems to be fragmenting already. > > > > ron > > > > It's very clearly add-on technology to make up for something people > felt was unmanageable in Unix. However do we really need both ACLs > and SELINUX contexts? Do our files really need to have named hidden > data to store this crap in? > > I've honestly not read any papers justifying the need for ACLs or > SELINUX controls. > > I suddenly miss DOS. > > Dave > -- Lead thou me on, O Zeus, and Destiny, To that goal long ago to me assigned. I'll follow and not falter; if my will Prove weak and craven, still I'll follow on. -- Epictetus He who enters his wife's dressing room is a philosopher or a fool. -- Balzac [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2566 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: Re: [9fans] if you're looking for some fun, check out selinux ... 2006-07-18 23:18 ` LiteStar numnums @ 2006-07-19 0:29 ` David Leimbach 2006-07-19 0:34 ` LiteStar numnums 0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: David Leimbach @ 2006-07-19 0:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs I wonder when AdaOS will be done? :-) On 7/18/06, LiteStar numnums <litestar@gmail.com> wrote: > You all seem to forget that this is a merging of anal retentive technologies > from a US government bureacracy and the anarchy of 'Linux', which is not > really a single anything accept a tree with lots and lots of code. This is > the same US goverment (although not the same bureaucracy) that unleashed > NIEM ( niem.gov) onto the world, XML with no less than NINE NAMESPACES, > which is supposed to be used for critical (read: things like 'Oh, the > leavies may have been breached') data... > On a lighter note, I've always been happy with TrustedBSD & TrustedSolaris, > or OpenVMS ;-) > > > On 7/18/06, David Leimbach <leimy2k@gmail.com> wrote: > > On 7/18/06, Ronald G Minnich <rminnich@lanl.gov> wrote: > > > David Leimbach wrote: > > > > > > > It (SELINUX) was easily turned off with a switch in a conf file, but > > > > it's such a pain in the ass, I don't know why it's in a "FC" style > > > > distribution at all. > > > > > > The bigger question, which I can't quite figure out yet, is does selinux > > > provide some magic dust that in turn provides a level of security not > > > attainable any other way (i.e. in something like Plan 9) ... or, is it a > > > set of hacks to cover for an obsolete way of doing things. I am tending > > > toward thinking the latter, now that I've worked with it a bit. Watch > > > the discussions on labeling files, it's interesting, because the label > > > namespace seems to be fragmenting already. > > > > > > ron > > > > > > > It's very clearly add-on technology to make up for something people > > felt was unmanageable in Unix. However do we really need both ACLs > > and SELINUX contexts? Do our files really need to have named hidden > > data to store this crap in? > > > > I've honestly not read any papers justifying the need for ACLs or > > SELINUX controls. > > > > I suddenly miss DOS. > > > > Dave > > > > > > -- > Lead thou me on, O Zeus, and Destiny, > To that goal long ago to me assigned. > I'll follow and not falter; if my will > Prove weak and craven, still I'll follow on. > -- Epictetus > > He who enters his wife's dressing room is a philosopher or a fool. -- Balzac ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: Re: [9fans] if you're looking for some fun, check out selinux ... 2006-07-19 0:29 ` David Leimbach @ 2006-07-19 0:34 ` LiteStar numnums 2006-07-19 1:21 ` Re: Re: [9fans] if you're looking for some fun, Brantley Coile 0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: LiteStar numnums @ 2006-07-19 0:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2819 bytes --] Well, Oberon Native's been around for years... =) On 7/18/06, David Leimbach <leimy2k@gmail.com> wrote: > > I wonder when AdaOS will be done? :-) > > > On 7/18/06, LiteStar numnums <litestar@gmail.com> wrote: > > You all seem to forget that this is a merging of anal retentive > technologies > > from a US government bureacracy and the anarchy of 'Linux', which is not > > really a single anything accept a tree with lots and lots of code. This > is > > the same US goverment (although not the same bureaucracy) that unleashed > > NIEM ( niem.gov) onto the world, XML with no less than NINE NAMESPACES, > > which is supposed to be used for critical (read: things like 'Oh, the > > leavies may have been breached') data... > > On a lighter note, I've always been happy with TrustedBSD & > TrustedSolaris, > > or OpenVMS ;-) > > > > > > On 7/18/06, David Leimbach <leimy2k@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On 7/18/06, Ronald G Minnich <rminnich@lanl.gov> wrote: > > > > David Leimbach wrote: > > > > > > > > > It (SELINUX) was easily turned off with a switch in a conf file, > but > > > > > it's such a pain in the ass, I don't know why it's in a "FC" style > > > > > distribution at all. > > > > > > > > The bigger question, which I can't quite figure out yet, is does > selinux > > > > provide some magic dust that in turn provides a level of security > not > > > > attainable any other way (i.e. in something like Plan 9) ... or, is > it a > > > > set of hacks to cover for an obsolete way of doing things. I am > tending > > > > toward thinking the latter, now that I've worked with it a bit. > Watch > > > > the discussions on labeling files, it's interesting, because the > label > > > > namespace seems to be fragmenting already. > > > > > > > > ron > > > > > > > > > > It's very clearly add-on technology to make up for something people > > > felt was unmanageable in Unix. However do we really need both ACLs > > > and SELINUX contexts? Do our files really need to have named hidden > > > data to store this crap in? > > > > > > I've honestly not read any papers justifying the need for ACLs or > > > SELINUX controls. > > > > > > I suddenly miss DOS. > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Lead thou me on, O Zeus, and Destiny, > > To that goal long ago to me assigned. > > I'll follow and not falter; if my will > > Prove weak and craven, still I'll follow on. > > -- Epictetus > > > > He who enters his wife's dressing room is a philosopher or a fool. -- > Balzac > -- Lead thou me on, O Zeus, and Destiny, To that goal long ago to me assigned. I'll follow and not falter; if my will Prove weak and craven, still I'll follow on. -- Epictetus He who enters his wife's dressing room is a philosopher or a fool. -- Balzac [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3625 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: Re: [9fans] if you're looking for some fun, 2006-07-19 0:34 ` LiteStar numnums @ 2006-07-19 1:21 ` Brantley Coile 2006-07-19 1:36 ` LiteStar numnums ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Brantley Coile @ 2006-07-19 1:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > Well, Oberon Native's been around for years... =) I object to that callous remark on two grounds. The the Oberon system is the inspiration for acme, which, given this mailing list, gives it some sort of place of honor, and the Oberon language is as flexible as one can get in a small, strongly typed language. C might even have evolved to meet Oberon in the middle of the language field, if it hadn't had pointer arithmetic. That stopped it cold. Not only do we now require function prototypes, we can even do typechecking of actual parameters against the format strings of print functions. In any event, suggestion that Ada and Oberon are in any way related in an insult. Langues have feelings too. :) http://www.oberon.ethz.ch/oreport.html (Is there a category for Languageist jokes? You know, like racist jokes only for programming langues? ``There are three languages in a boat, FORTRAN, Pascal, and C. FORTRAN says ... '') ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: Re: [9fans] if you're looking for some fun, 2006-07-19 1:21 ` Re: Re: [9fans] if you're looking for some fun, Brantley Coile @ 2006-07-19 1:36 ` LiteStar numnums 2006-07-19 2:37 ` Skip Tavakkolian 2006-07-19 4:37 ` cej 2 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: LiteStar numnums @ 2006-07-19 1:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1892 bytes --] Actually, the joke rested on the fact that Ada is dogged by complexity complaints, much like Oberon, which actually has a Native System, unlike Ada. I do realise that Oberon and Ada are dissimilar, especially given their direct origins (Wirth vs. DoD). Plus, having used Oberon, Ada & RavenSpark, I actually realise the complaints against Ada, but poking fun was all that this was meant to do. By the way, I would suggest you to look up FOURTH, LITHP & C-- for languagesist jokes... =) C-omega might even be another fun lookup Cheers, -- Sztefan On 7/18/06, Brantley Coile <brantley@coraid.com> wrote: > > > Well, Oberon Native's been around for years... =) > > I object to that callous remark on two grounds. > > The the Oberon system is the inspiration for acme, which, given this > mailing list, gives it some sort of place of honor, and the Oberon > language is as flexible as one can get in a small, strongly typed > language. C might even have evolved to meet Oberon in the middle of > the language field, if it hadn't had pointer arithmetic. That stopped > it cold. Not only do we now require function prototypes, we can even do > typechecking of actual parameters against the format strings of print > functions. > > In any event, suggestion that Ada and Oberon are in any way related in > an insult. Langues have feelings too. :) > > http://www.oberon.ethz.ch/oreport.html > > (Is there a category for Languageist jokes? You know, like racist > jokes only for programming langues? ``There are three languages in a > boat, FORTRAN, Pascal, and C. FORTRAN says ... '') > > -- Lead thou me on, O Zeus, and Destiny, To that goal long ago to me assigned. I'll follow and not falter; if my will Prove weak and craven, still I'll follow on. -- Epictetus He who enters his wife's dressing room is a philosopher or a fool. -- Balzac [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2360 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: Re: [9fans] if you're looking for some fun, 2006-07-19 1:21 ` Re: Re: [9fans] if you're looking for some fun, Brantley Coile 2006-07-19 1:36 ` LiteStar numnums @ 2006-07-19 2:37 ` Skip Tavakkolian 2006-07-19 4:37 ` cej 2 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: Skip Tavakkolian @ 2006-07-19 2:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > http://www.oberon.ethz.ch/oreport.html something is mistyped in there. what's an ELSIF? do they mean ELVIS? (actually, that's my only objection) ; wait is that too many ';' or not enough? ; no i take it back. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* RE: Re: Re: [9fans] if you're looking for some fun, 2006-07-19 1:21 ` Re: Re: [9fans] if you're looking for some fun, Brantley Coile 2006-07-19 1:36 ` LiteStar numnums 2006-07-19 2:37 ` Skip Tavakkolian @ 2006-07-19 4:37 ` cej 2006-07-19 15:50 ` LiteStar numnums 2 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread From: cej @ 2006-07-19 4:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > Well, Oberon Native's been around for years... =) Some time ago i realized that native oberon is dead, or am i wrong?? ++pac. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: Re: Re: [9fans] if you're looking for some fun, 2006-07-19 4:37 ` cej @ 2006-07-19 15:50 ` LiteStar numnums 0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: LiteStar numnums @ 2006-07-19 15:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 577 bytes --] Last updates to anything in the FTP site is 2005, so not necessarily dead, but stagnant perhaps? On 7/19/06, cej@gli.cas.cz <cej@gli.cas.cz> wrote: > > > > > > Well, Oberon Native's been around for years... =) > > Some time ago i realized that native oberon is dead, or am i wrong?? > ++pac. > > -- Lead thou me on, O Zeus, and Destiny, To that goal long ago to me assigned. I'll follow and not falter; if my will Prove weak and craven, still I'll follow on. -- Epictetus He who enters his wife's dressing room is a philosopher or a fool. -- Balzac [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 918 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] if you're looking for some fun, check out selinux ... 2006-07-18 20:11 ` David Leimbach 2006-07-18 20:16 ` Ronald G Minnich @ 2006-07-18 20:21 ` jmk 1 sibling, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread From: jmk @ 2006-07-18 20:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Tue Jul 18 16:12:29 EDT 2006, leimy2k@gmail.com wrote: > Yeah i've got FC4 here... couldn't export a directory with samba until > I located the magic flag for the new 'chcon' tool. > ... It's only a few steps from 'chcon' to 'cthulhu'. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2006-07-19 15:50 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 13+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2006-07-18 19:01 [9fans] if you're looking for some fun, check out selinux Ronald G Minnich 2006-07-18 20:11 ` David Leimbach 2006-07-18 20:16 ` Ronald G Minnich 2006-07-18 20:31 ` David Leimbach 2006-07-18 23:18 ` LiteStar numnums 2006-07-19 0:29 ` David Leimbach 2006-07-19 0:34 ` LiteStar numnums 2006-07-19 1:21 ` Re: Re: [9fans] if you're looking for some fun, Brantley Coile 2006-07-19 1:36 ` LiteStar numnums 2006-07-19 2:37 ` Skip Tavakkolian 2006-07-19 4:37 ` cej 2006-07-19 15:50 ` LiteStar numnums 2006-07-18 20:21 ` [9fans] if you're looking for some fun, check out selinux jmk
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