From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 09:14:14 +0000 From: pavlovetsky@gmail.com Message-ID: <1190553102.693814.317030@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [9fans] X Window System Topicbox-Message-UUID: c388c1bc-ead2-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 What would be the difficulties if someone wishes to port X to Plan 9 and wants to see it running independently of rio? Any ideas, from technical point of view? From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 11:11:08 +0100 From: "Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente" To: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] X Window System In-Reply-To: <1190553102.693814.317030@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_10292_1939920.1190628668994" References: <1190553102.693814.317030@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> Topicbox-Message-UUID: c3956138-ead2-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 ------=_Part_10292_1939920.1190628668994 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I has already been done. Look for it in "sources"... (But I don't see a good reason to use it/ do it again) Cheers! On 9/24/07, pavlovetsky@gmail.com wrote: > > What would be the difficulties if someone wishes to port X to Plan 9 > and wants to see it running independently of rio? Any ideas, from > technical point of view? > ------=_Part_10292_1939920.1190628668994 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I has already been done.

Look for it in "sources"...

(But I don't see a good reason to use it/ do it again)

Cheers!

On 9/24/07, pavlovetsky@gmail.com <pavlovetsky@gmail.com> wrote:
What would be the difficulties if someone wishes to port X to Plan 9
and wants to see it running independently of rio? Any ideas, from
technical point of view?

------=_Part_10292_1939920.1190628668994-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: tlaronde@polynum.com Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 12:31:18 +0200 To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] X Window System Message-ID: <20070924103118.GA226@polynum.com> References: <1190553102.693814.317030@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1190553102.693814.317030@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Topicbox-Message-UUID: c399914a-ead2-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 On Mon, Sep 24, 2007 at 09:14:14AM +0000, pavlovetsky@gmail.com wrote: > What would be the difficulties if someone wishes to port X to Plan 9 > and wants to see it running independently of rio? Any ideas, from > technical point of view? This is not a technical advice but more a theoretical one. I'm actually rewriting the 2D interface for KerGIS programs with an eye on want I want/need: a distributed system with computing (may be heavy in the KerGIS case) on CPU nodes, and interface handling (exclusively arithmetic i.e. only ALU intrusctions) on terminals (the connection between the terminal and the CPU being exclusively 1D commands, i.e. the graphical interface is only a graphical mean to select commands and data, there is only one version of the computing programs with a text/line oriented language [batch]). With this is mind, one sees that X is the wrong answer since the interface handling (the menu abstraction, the heavy stuff done by the toolkits) is not on the terminal but on the CPU (if one uses the "distributed" nature of X). This is not its place, and its really "old" conception: a mainframe with dumb terminals. I hope the main idea is clear enough, I mean IMHO providing a "toolkit" plan 9 based would be far better and probably in terms of work far easier than porting the whole X world to Plan 9. In my case, with a huge beast---but that is becoming lean since with the principles above I suppress tons of redundant spaghetti code---, rewriting the graphical interface is a benefit on Unix/X11 and will allow porting to pure plan 9 absolutely easily (with there the full benefit of "distributed"; it will be the same on Unix, but not delegating "distribution" to X, but taking care at it by the architecture of the code). On another side, the X11 people want now to include the graphical server in the OS and wonder about the X protocol (but AFAIK haven't identified that the "distribution"/connexion is not done in the right place). That is, the future of X11 is more towards plan 9 concepts so "following" X11 is a bit weird ;) I hope these thoughts have some interest for what you have in mind. Cheers, -- Thierry Laronde (Alceste) http://www.kergis.com/ Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89 250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 11:43:11 +0000 From: pavlovetsky@gmail.com Message-ID: <1190632968.394008.109110@n39g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" References: <1190553102.693814.317030@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> Subject: [9fans] Re: X Window System Topicbox-Message-UUID: c39e1742-ead2-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 On Sep 24, 12:11 pm, lorenzobiv...@gmail.com (Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente) wrote: > I has already been done. > > Look for it in "sources"... > > (But I don't see a good reason to use it/ do it again) > > Cheers! > > On 9/24/07, pavlovet...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > What would be the difficulties if someone wishes to port X to Plan 9 > > and wants to see it running independently of rio? Any ideas, from > > technical point of view?- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Yes, I know that the port exists and it is running inside rio, isn't it? You can't compile it nowadays: making all in programs/Xserver/Xext... rm -f shape.o cc -c -O -I../include -I../../../X11 -I../../../include/extensions - I../../.. -DBRAZIL -DOBJTYPE$objtype -D_BSD_EXTENSION - D_RESEARCH_SOURCE -DSHAPE -DFUNCPROTO=11 shape.c /sys/src/X11/programs/Xserver/Xext/shape.c:485[stdin:25175] incompatible type: "VOID" for op "DOT" /sys/src/X11/programs/Xserver/Xext/shape.c:497[stdin:25187] incompatible type: "VOID" for op "DOT" cc: cpp: 8c 226911: error *** Error code 1 Stop. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: <5b30be55a08595012f5b35ca53a9390f@quintile.net> From: "Steve Simon" Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:18:37 +0100 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: X Window System In-Reply-To: <1190632968.394008.109110@n39g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Topicbox-Message-UUID: c3a2e812-ead2-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 > Yes, I know that the port exists and it is running inside rio, isn't > it? it runs inside rio if you start it inside rio, start it instead of rio and it will use the whole display (as would acme, sam or catclock :-). > You can't compile it nowadays: I last compiled it against the 3rd edition but this should not make any real difference; from memory the only real changes in the compiler since then are the option of link time type checking and improvements to 64bit int support. I suggest you explore the 'incompatible type: "VOID" for op "DOT"' error, it may simply be somthing in your ape environment is not set up as x11 needs, (though it may be somthing less tractable of course). The biggest problem with this package is the limited plan9 driver - only 8bit pixmaps are supported and use on plan9 displays with depths other than 8bits is very slow. This could be fixed but it would probably be more sensible to update the port to the current X11 release. -Steve From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 10:12:54 +0000 From: app Message-ID: <1191144354.638906.73590@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" References: <1190553102.693814.317030@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> Subject: [9fans] Re: X Window System Topicbox-Message-UUID: c8a33e70-ead2-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 So, if not X, then how about some higher (or eperhaps lower?) layer libraries (qtk? Qt? Gecko?) ported so that porting the 10 (or 100) best known FOSS packages (whatever they are) would become more possible? How about a project to take something like Firefox and restructure the whole sw so that best modules would be kept and other modules re- implemented /dev/draw way and Rio way? Or is the real problem really the GUI? Or something else, like the GNU toolchain needed to compile a typical FOSS project? From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: <4700DCC7.5070108@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:40:55 +0200 From: Kernel Panic User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: X Window System References: <1190553102.693814.317030@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> <1191144354.638906.73590@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <1191144354.638906.73590@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Topicbox-Message-UUID: c900d882-ead2-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 app wrote: >So, if not X, then how about some higher (or eperhaps lower?) layer >libraries (qtk? Qt? Gecko?) ported so that porting the 10 (or 100) >best known FOSS packages (whatever they are) would become more >possible? > > Go! look at these 100 best known programs... Look at the code and the dependencies... its not that easy/beauty. >How about a project to take something like Firefox and restructure the >whole sw so that best modules would be kept and other modules re- >implemented /dev/draw way and Rio way? > > That gets you the same big old programs lunix has... In the end, you dont port the programs to Plan9 but the other way arround... and then you are where anything started. >Or is the real problem really the GUI? Or something else, like the GNU >toolchain needed to compile a typical FOSS project? > > No, its not just the GUI. One of the strongest thinks of Plan9 are the simple and small libraries. The small code makes it possible for a small comunity to maintain it. Even a single person can read and understand most of the code. In contrast to the GNU userland. Here are thousands of programers out here to fix and hack on these zillion-lines-always-changing GNU code. Here are huge dependency graph for all that stuff. Its mutch work to port, fix, maintain... I doubt a single person/small comunity can do it... And what do you get if you are done? Firefox? Just a webbrowser for all that? Here is abaco... its very small, fast and has a nice UI. It has limitations but why not improve it then? Its small... you can actually understand and fix the code or ask the author. Its mutch more fun to make native Plan9 applications. If that gets you to implement some kind of UI(-library) that turns out to be usefull in other programs that will be great. IMHO... If you are serious with Plan9... eat Plan9 dogfood... start using it on daily basis... see what missing for YOU... start writing your programs yourself with the tools that Plan9 gives you. In many cases... this will result in programs that are mutch more simpler and smaller. If you do it you will note what Plan9 lacks and maybe provide a solution that further programers can profit of. cinap From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: <5198d7d27267c1e84395d24a4d152950@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: X Window System Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 14:13:40 +0200 From: lucio@proxima.alt.za In-Reply-To: <4700DCC7.5070108@gmx.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Topicbox-Message-UUID: c96bbeb8-ead2-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 > In the end, you dont > port the programs to Plan9 but the other way arround This deserves a fortune slot, in my opinion. ++L From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: <71610f5d19dfbf77220a337d912133a9@quanstro.net> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: X Window System From: erik quanstrom Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 09:04:40 -0400 In-Reply-To: <4700DCC7.5070108@gmx.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Topicbox-Message-UUID: c922aebc-ead2-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 it's ironic that the object-oriented guys have such a tangled web of external dependencies. - erik From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: X Window System From: Charles Forsyth Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 14:24:45 +0100 In-Reply-To: <71610f5d19dfbf77220a337d912133a9@quanstro.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Topicbox-Message-UUID: c928c676-ead2-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 > it's ironic that the object-oriented guys have such > a tangled web of external dependencies. i think that's absolutely typical of most large o-o things i've had to read: not just external dependencies, but a real tangle of snippets of code in overridden methods in a cascading class hierarchy. hard for reasoning; bad for maintenance. i suppose it must be easier to write (although i've never found that to be true myself), and that's why it's so popular. i don't really know. it's finally a mystery to me. but we digress... From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: <3e1162e60710010638j19e22665s5a7c527d08a430e3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 06:38:30 -0700 From: "David Leimbach" To: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: X Window System In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_7212_30655756.1191245910817" References: <71610f5d19dfbf77220a337d912133a9@quanstro.net> Topicbox-Message-UUID: c92f767e-ead2-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 ------=_Part_7212_30655756.1191245910817 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 10/1/07, Charles Forsyth wrote: > > > it's ironic that the object-oriented guys have such > > a tangled web of external dependencies. > > i think that's absolutely typical of most large o-o things i've > had to read: not just external dependencies, but a real tangle > of snippets of code in overridden methods in a cascading class > hierarchy. hard for reasoning; bad for maintenance. i suppose it must > be easier > to write (although i've never found that to be true myself), > and that's why it's so popular. i don't really know. it's finally a > mystery to me. > but we digress... > > If OO stuff were everything it needed to be to begin with, then Aspect Oriented Programming and other techniques would not have been necessary. Hell even the Aspect Oriented "weaving" of code between or overriding existing methods was around in lisp a long time before it was called Aspect Oriented programming. Perhaps we should all be schemers or lispers instead... ------=_Part_7212_30655756.1191245910817 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline

On 10/1/07, Charles Forsyth <forsyth@terzarima.net> wrote:
> it's ironic that the object-oriented guys have such
> a tangled web of external dependencies.

i think that's absolutely typical of most large o-o things i've
had to read: not just external dependencies, but a real tangle
of snippets of code in overridden methods in a cascading class
hierarchy.  hard for reasoning; bad for maintenance.   i suppose it must be easier
to write (although i've never found that to be true myself),
and that's why it's so popular.  i don't really know. it's finally a mystery to me.
but we digress...

If OO stuff were everything it needed to be to begin with, then Aspect Oriented Programming and other techniques would not have been necessary.

Hell even the Aspect Oriented "weaving" of code between or overriding existing methods was around in lisp a long time before it was called Aspect Oriented programming.

Perhaps we should all be schemers or lispers instead...
------=_Part_7212_30655756.1191245910817-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 17:23:13 +0200 From: Enrico Weigelt To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: X Window System Message-ID: <20071001152313.GA3832@nibiru.local> References: <1190553102.693814.317030@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> <1191144354.638906.73590@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1191144354.638906.73590@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Topicbox-Message-UUID: c935158e-ead2-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 * app wrote: Hi, > So, if not X, then how about some higher (or eperhaps lower?) layer > libraries (qtk? Qt? Gecko?) ported so that porting the 10 (or 100) > best known FOSS packages (whatever they are) would become more > possible? Porting libs like gdk to plan9 would be cool. But you shouldn't forget that many libs should be heavily restructured and cleaned up. > How about a project to take something like Firefox and restructure the > whole sw so that best modules would be kept and other modules re- > implemented /dev/draw way and Rio way? Huh, that's an really HUGE plan. I'm a little bit involved in moz and know what I'm talking about ;-O cu -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Enrico Weigelt == metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 17:26:02 +0200 From: Enrico Weigelt To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: X Window System Message-ID: <20071001152600.GB3832@nibiru.local> References: <1190553102.693814.317030@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> <1191144354.638906.73590@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> <4700DCC7.5070108@gmx.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4700DCC7.5070108@gmx.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Topicbox-Message-UUID: c951e222-ead2-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 * Kernel Panic wrote: > app wrote: > > >So, if not X, then how about some higher (or eperhaps lower?) layer > >libraries (qtk? Qt? Gecko?) ported so that porting the 10 (or 100) > >best known FOSS packages (whatever they are) would become more > >possible? > > > > > Go! look at these 100 best known programs... Look at the code and the > dependencies... its not that easy/beauty. Yeah, the autoconf "philosohpy" is probably what it makes so bad. People seem to think it's better to workaround bugs or even bad design and no one feels responsible to clean up things in the right place. cu -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Enrico Weigelt == metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: <6bfbb408dd471cb8d251b8dc9d7f09ea@coraid.com> From: erik quanstrom Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 11:53:00 -0400 To: weigelt@metux.de, 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: X Window System In-Reply-To: <20071001152313.GA3832@nibiru.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Topicbox-Message-UUID: c958d9ba-ead2-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 > Porting libs like gdk to plan9 would be cool. > > But you shouldn't forget that many libs should be heavily > restructured and cleaned up. this is great. i can't resist the irony of this. portablity is for people cannot [sic] write new programs. - linus torvalds (people.fluidsignal.com/~luferbu/misc/Linus_vs_Tanenbaum.html) - erik From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: <13426df10710010944r5de6d678l8222d3ff7a991e92@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 09:44:18 -0700 From: "ron minnich" To: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: X Window System In-Reply-To: <6bfbb408dd471cb8d251b8dc9d7f09ea@coraid.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20071001152313.GA3832@nibiru.local> <6bfbb408dd471cb8d251b8dc9d7f09ea@coraid.com> Cc: Topicbox-Message-UUID: c96053c0-ead2-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 > > But you shouldn't forget that many libs should be heavily > > restructured and cleaned up. which is easier than writing them from scratch? Geez, we just keep retreading the same ground. how many times a year do we have this discussion? Rather than talk about doing it, it might be easier to try and do it first. ron From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 13:24:01 -0400 From: marina@surferz.net To: Enrico Weigelt Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: X Window System In-Reply-To: <20071001152313.GA3832@nibiru.local> Message-ID: References: <1190553102.693814.317030@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> <1191144354.638906.73590@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> <20071001152313.GA3832@nibiru.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Topicbox-Message-UUID: c9714572-ead2-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 On Mon, 1 Oct 2007, Enrico Weigelt wrote: > * app wrote: > > Hi, > >> So, if not X, then how about some higher (or eperhaps lower?) layer >> libraries (qtk? Qt? Gecko?) ported so that porting the 10 (or 100) >> best known FOSS packages (whatever they are) would become more >> possible? > > Porting libs like gdk to plan9 would be cool. > > But you shouldn't forget that many libs should be heavily > restructured and cleaned up. > >> How about a project to take something like Firefox and restructure the >> whole sw so that best modules would be kept and other modules re- >> implemented /dev/draw way and Rio way? > > Huh, that's an really HUGE plan. I'm a little bit involved > in moz and know what I'm talking about ;-O > Why not start with something a bit smaller. ...like making SSH2 work. We use plan9 for work a lot and not having SSH2 working is a large hassle. Might even throw some money in the pot for someone to finish that project as the crypto application is a bit beyond me. --- Marina Brown (tsygry) > > cu > -- > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Enrico Weigelt == metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: > http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce > Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: > http://patches.metux.de/ > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: <14ec7b180710011047x16f1de27s687054112d71e59@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 11:47:07 -0600 From: "andrey mirtchovski" To: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: X Window System In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1190553102.693814.317030@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> <1191144354.638906.73590@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> <20071001152313.GA3832@nibiru.local> Topicbox-Message-UUID: c9774dfa-ead2-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 i'll finish the sshv2 port of libssh i was working on. send the money to me :) On 10/1/07, marina@surferz.net wrote: > On Mon, 1 Oct 2007, Enrico Weigelt wrote: > > > * app wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > >> So, if not X, then how about some higher (or eperhaps lower?) layer > >> libraries (qtk? Qt? Gecko?) ported so that porting the 10 (or 100) > >> best known FOSS packages (whatever they are) would become more > >> possible? > > > > Porting libs like gdk to plan9 would be cool. > > > > But you shouldn't forget that many libs should be heavily > > restructured and cleaned up. > > > >> How about a project to take something like Firefox and restructure the > >> whole sw so that best modules would be kept and other modules re- > >> implemented /dev/draw way and Rio way? > > > > Huh, that's an really HUGE plan. I'm a little bit involved > > in moz and know what I'm talking about ;-O > > > > Why not start with something a bit smaller. ...like making SSH2 work. We > use plan9 for work a lot and not having SSH2 working is a large hassle. > > Might even throw some money in the pot for someone to finish that project > as the crypto application is a bit beyond me. > > --- Marina Brown (tsygry) > > > > > > > cu > > -- > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Enrico Weigelt == metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: > > http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce > > Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: > > http://patches.metux.de/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: <3e1162e60710011055u3b3c84cfr89151018059f29d1@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 10:55:19 -0700 From: "David Leimbach" To: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: X Window System In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_8078_11747349.1191261319335" References: <1190553102.693814.317030@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> <1191144354.638906.73590@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> <20071001152313.GA3832@nibiru.local> Cc: Topicbox-Message-UUID: c97dbb90-ead2-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 ------=_Part_8078_11747349.1191261319335 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 10/1/07, marina@surferz.net wrote: > > On Mon, 1 Oct 2007, Enrico Weigelt wrote: > > > * app wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > >> So, if not X, then how about some higher (or eperhaps lower?) layer > >> libraries (qtk? Qt? Gecko?) ported so that porting the 10 (or 100) > >> best known FOSS packages (whatever they are) would become more > >> possible? > > > > Porting libs like gdk to plan9 would be cool. > > > > But you shouldn't forget that many libs should be heavily > > restructured and cleaned up. > > > >> How about a project to take something like Firefox and restructure the > >> whole sw so that best modules would be kept and other modules re- > >> implemented /dev/draw way and Rio way? > > > > Huh, that's an really HUGE plan. I'm a little bit involved > > in moz and know what I'm talking about ;-O > > > > Why not start with something a bit smaller. ...like making SSH2 work. We > use plan9 for work a lot and not having SSH2 working is a large hassle. I just asked about this the other day... Wondering where it is :-) I'm not sure what's left to be done to make it go... Might even throw some money in the pot for someone to finish that project > as the crypto application is a bit beyond me. I think bounties for Open Source projects are neat, until someone decides not to maintain it :-) However, they can sometimes get the ball rolling in a way that lets novices help with maintenance after the "experts" have moved on. Dave > --- Marina Brown (tsygry) > > > > > > > cu > > -- > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Enrico Weigelt == metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: > > http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce > > Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: > > http://patches.metux.de/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ------=_Part_8078_11747349.1191261319335 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline

On 10/1/07, marina@surferz.net <marina@surferz.net> wrote:
On Mon, 1 Oct 2007, Enrico Weigelt wrote:

> * app <porttikivi@gmail.com > wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>> So, if not X, then how about some higher (or eperhaps lower?) layer
>> libraries (qtk? Qt? Gecko?) ported so that porting the 10 (or 100)
>> best known FOSS packages (whatever they are) would become more
>> possible?
>
> Porting libs like gdk to plan9 would be cool.
>
> But you shouldn't forget that many libs should be heavily
> restructured and cleaned up.
>
>> How about a project to take something like Firefox and restructure the
>> whole sw so that best modules would be kept and other modules re-
>> implemented /dev/draw way and Rio way?
>
> Huh, that's an really HUGE plan. I'm a little bit involved
> in moz and know what I'm talking about ;-O
>

Why not start with something a bit smaller. ...like making SSH2 work. We
use plan9 for work a lot and not having SSH2 working is a large hassle.


I just asked about this the other day...  Wondering where it is  :-)

I'm not sure what's left to be done to make it go...
 

Might even throw some money in the pot for someone to finish that project
as the crypto application is a bit beyond me.


I think bounties for Open Source projects are neat, until someone decides not to maintain it :-)

However, they can sometimes get the ball rolling in a way that lets novices help with maintenance after the "experts" have moved on.
 
Dave
--- Marina Brown (tsygry)



>
> cu
> --
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Enrico Weigelt    ==   metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce:
>       http://wiki.metux.de/public /OpenSource_QM_Taskforce
> Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions:
>       http://patches.metux.de/
> ------------------------------ ---------------------------------------
>

------=_Part_8078_11747349.1191261319335-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: <3e1162e60710011056u14b6a2i699f44b469b6e957@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 10:56:06 -0700 From: "David Leimbach" To: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: X Window System In-Reply-To: <14ec7b180710011047x16f1de27s687054112d71e59@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_8082_14402596.1191261366579" References: <1190553102.693814.317030@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> <1191144354.638906.73590@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> <20071001152313.GA3832@nibiru.local> <14ec7b180710011047x16f1de27s687054112d71e59@mail.gmail.com> Topicbox-Message-UUID: c988ded0-ead2-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 ------=_Part_8082_14402596.1191261366579 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 10/1/07, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > > i'll finish the sshv2 port of libssh i was working on. send the money to > me :) How much you think it's worth? :-) I'm curious as to how far along it is :-) On 10/1/07, marina@surferz.net wrote: > > On Mon, 1 Oct 2007, Enrico Weigelt wrote: > > > > > * app wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > >> So, if not X, then how about some higher (or eperhaps lower?) layer > > >> libraries (qtk? Qt? Gecko?) ported so that porting the 10 (or 100) > > >> best known FOSS packages (whatever they are) would become more > > >> possible? > > > > > > Porting libs like gdk to plan9 would be cool. > > > > > > But you shouldn't forget that many libs should be heavily > > > restructured and cleaned up. > > > > > >> How about a project to take something like Firefox and restructure > the > > >> whole sw so that best modules would be kept and other modules re- > > >> implemented /dev/draw way and Rio way? > > > > > > Huh, that's an really HUGE plan. I'm a little bit involved > > > in moz and know what I'm talking about ;-O > > > > > > > Why not start with something a bit smaller. ...like making SSH2 work. We > > use plan9 for work a lot and not having SSH2 working is a large hassle. > > > > Might even throw some money in the pot for someone to finish that > project > > as the crypto application is a bit beyond me. > > > > --- Marina Brown (tsygry) > > > > > > > > > > > > cu > > > -- > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Enrico Weigelt == metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: > > > http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce > > > Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: > > > http://patches.metux.de/ > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > ------=_Part_8082_14402596.1191261366579 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline

On 10/1/07, andrey mirtchovski <mirtchovski@gmail.com> wrote:
i'll finish the sshv2 port of libssh i was working on. send the money to me :)


How much you think it's worth?  :-)  

I'm curious as to how far along it is :-)
 

On 10/1/07, marina@surferz.net <marina@surferz.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Oct 2007, Enrico Weigelt wrote:
>
> > * app < porttikivi@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> >> So, if not X, then how about some higher (or eperhaps lower?) layer
> >> libraries (qtk? Qt? Gecko?) ported so that porting the 10 (or 100)
> >> best known FOSS packages (whatever they are) would become more
> >> possible?
> >
> > Porting libs like gdk to plan9 would be cool.
> >
> > But you shouldn't forget that many libs should be heavily
> > restructured and cleaned up.
> >
> >> How about a project to take something like Firefox and restructure the
> >> whole sw so that best modules would be kept and other modules re-
> >> implemented /dev/draw way and Rio way?
> >
> > Huh, that's an really HUGE plan. I'm a little bit involved
> > in moz and know what I'm talking about ;-O
> >
>
> Why not start with something a bit smaller. ...like making SSH2 work. We
> use plan9 for work a lot and not having SSH2 working is a large hassle.
>
> Might even throw some money in the pot for someone to finish that project
> as the crypto application is a bit beyond me.
>
> --- Marina Brown (tsygry)
>
>
>
> >
> > cu
> > --
> > ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
> > Enrico Weigelt    ==   metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce:
> >       http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce
> > Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions:
> >       http://patches.metux.de/
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
>

------=_Part_8082_14402596.1191261366579-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <3e1162e60710011056u14b6a2i699f44b469b6e957@mail.gmail.com> References: <1190553102.693814.317030@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> <1191144354.638906.73590@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> <20071001152313.GA3832@nibiru.local> <14ec7b180710011047x16f1de27s687054112d71e59@mail.gmail.com> <3e1162e60710011056u14b6a2i699f44b469b6e957@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: andrey mirtchovski Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: X Window System Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 11:58:57 -0600 To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Topicbox-Message-UUID: c98e7a66-ead2-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 > How much you think it's worth? :-) 0 > I'm curious as to how far along it is :-) search the 9fans archives :) From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: <3e1162e60710011101q8831f35w84268dff2bb4bec4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 11:01:36 -0700 From: "David Leimbach" To: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: X Window System In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_8094_28777435.1191261696689" References: <1190553102.693814.317030@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> <1191144354.638906.73590@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> <20071001152313.GA3832@nibiru.local> <14ec7b180710011047x16f1de27s687054112d71e59@mail.gmail.com> <3e1162e60710011056u14b6a2i699f44b469b6e957@mail.gmail.com> Topicbox-Message-UUID: c9944bd0-ead2-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 ------=_Part_8094_28777435.1191261696689 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 10/1/07, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > > > How much you think it's worth? :-) > > 0 > > > I'm curious as to how far along it is :-) > > search the 9fans archives :) > Dangit!!! Oh so fruitless that was last time. ------=_Part_8094_28777435.1191261696689 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline

On 10/1/07, andrey mirtchovski <andrey@lanl.gov> wrote:
> How much you think it's worth?  :-)

0

> I'm curious as to how far along it is :-)

search the 9fans archives :)

Dangit!!!  Oh so fruitless that was last time.
------=_Part_8094_28777435.1191261696689-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: <13426df10710011109g6b4e77a4me45900c8e865c517@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 11:09:56 -0700 From: "ron minnich" To: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: X Window System In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1190553102.693814.317030@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> <1191144354.638906.73590@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> <20071001152313.GA3832@nibiru.local> <14ec7b180710011047x16f1de27s687054112d71e59@mail.gmail.com> <3e1162e60710011056u14b6a2i699f44b469b6e957@mail.gmail.com> Topicbox-Message-UUID: c99bce1e-ead2-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 Andrey, I hope you will restructure the code completely, and be sure to use transparent accessor functions, spontaneous self-organization, and make sure the code is on the edge of criticality. ron From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: <14ec7b180710011119i11500bwe47faba60edf2b85@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 12:19:34 -0600 From: "andrey mirtchovski" To: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: X Window System In-Reply-To: <13426df10710011109g6b4e77a4me45900c8e865c517@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline References: <1190553102.693814.317030@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> <1191144354.638906.73590@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> <20071001152313.GA3832@nibiru.local> <14ec7b180710011047x16f1de27s687054112d71e59@mail.gmail.com> <3e1162e60710011056u14b6a2i699f44b469b6e957@mail.gmail.com> <13426df10710011109g6b4e77a4me45900c8e865c517@mail.gmail.com> Topicbox-Message-UUID: c9ae1eca-ead2-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 aSBwcm9taXNlIHlvdSB0aGF0IHdlJ2xsIGxvb2sgYXQgdGhlIGVkZ2Ugb2YgY3JpdGljYWxpdHkg ZnJvbSBiZWxvdywKYXMgaXQgc3BlZWRzIGF3YXkgYXQgOS43OG1zwq/CsiA6KQoKT24gMTAvMS8w Nywgcm9uIG1pbm5pY2ggPHJtaW5uaWNoQGdtYWlsLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6Cj4gQW5kcmV5LCBJIGhv cGUgeW91IHdpbGwgcmVzdHJ1Y3R1cmUgdGhlIGNvZGUgY29tcGxldGVseSwgYW5kIGJlIHN1cmUK PiB0byB1c2UgdHJhbnNwYXJlbnQgYWNjZXNzb3IgZnVuY3Rpb25zLCBzcG9udGFuZW91cyBzZWxm LW9yZ2FuaXphdGlvbiwKPiBhbmQgbWFrZSBzdXJlIHRoZSBjb2RlIGlzIG9uIHRoZSBlZGdlIG9m IGNyaXRpY2FsaXR5Lgo+Cj4gcm9uCj4K From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: <2dfaa200918bb36b04cbf53d192a13ab@9netics.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: X Window System Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 11:31:19 -0700 From: Skip Tavakkolian <9nut@9netics.com> In-Reply-To: <13426df10710011109g6b4e77a4me45900c8e865c517@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Topicbox-Message-UUID: c9b4879c-ead2-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 > Andrey, I hope you will restructure the code completely, and be sure > to use transparent accessor functions, spontaneous self-organization, > and make sure the code is on the edge of criticality. bingo! From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 15:32:13 -0400 From: marina@surferz.net To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: X Window System In-Reply-To: <14ec7b180710011047x16f1de27s687054112d71e59@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <1190553102.693814.317030@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> <1191144354.638906.73590@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> <20071001152313.GA3832@nibiru.local> <14ec7b180710011047x16f1de27s687054112d71e59@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Topicbox-Message-UUID: c9baaf1e-ead2-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 On Mon, 1 Oct 2007, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > i'll finish the sshv2 port of libssh i was working on. send the money to me :) > I don't have much money to spare but make that a reality and put where to send and i will. --- Marina (tsygrl) > On 10/1/07, marina@surferz.net wrote: >> On Mon, 1 Oct 2007, Enrico Weigelt wrote: >> >>> * app wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>>> So, if not X, then how about some higher (or eperhaps lower?) layer >>>> libraries (qtk? Qt? Gecko?) ported so that porting the 10 (or 100) >>>> best known FOSS packages (whatever they are) would become more >>>> possible? >>> >>> Porting libs like gdk to plan9 would be cool. >>> >>> But you shouldn't forget that many libs should be heavily >>> restructured and cleaned up. >>> >>>> How about a project to take something like Firefox and restructure the >>>> whole sw so that best modules would be kept and other modules re- >>>> implemented /dev/draw way and Rio way? >>> >>> Huh, that's an really HUGE plan. I'm a little bit involved >>> in moz and know what I'm talking about ;-O >>> >> >> Why not start with something a bit smaller. ...like making SSH2 work. We >> use plan9 for work a lot and not having SSH2 working is a large hassle. >> >> Might even throw some money in the pot for someone to finish that project >> as the crypto application is a bit beyond me. >> >> --- Marina Brown (tsygry) >> >> >> >>> >>> cu >>> -- >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Enrico Weigelt == metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: >>> http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce >>> Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: >>> http://patches.metux.de/ >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >> > From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 08:35:54 +0000 From: "Douglas A. Gwyn" Message-ID: <4701500B.9B65CBF6@null.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20071001152313.GA3832@nibiru.local>, <6bfbb408dd471cb8d251b8dc9d7f09ea@coraid.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Re: X Window System Topicbox-Message-UUID: c9ce8cc8-ead2-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 erik quanstrom wrote: > portablity is for people cannot [sic] write new programs. > - linus torvalds (people.fluidsignal.com/~luferbu/misc/Linus_vs_Tanenbaum.html) No, portability is to avoid having to reinvent every single wheel.