From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8f4b81393c778af661a64f035cfb39f2@9netics.com> References: <8f4b81393c778af661a64f035cfb39f2@9netics.com> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 08:26:54 -0700 Message-ID: <3e1162e60904190826w1ff0d7e5ua5456981be9719cc@mail.gmail.com> From: David Leimbach To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00151750e50a36ac5d0467ea0b69 Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan9 - the next 20 years Topicbox-Message-UUID: e8af7c40-ead4-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 --00151750e50a36ac5d0467ea0b69 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 12:12 AM, Skip Tavakkolian <9nut@9netics.com> wrote: > > Well, in the octopus you have a fixed part, the pc, but all other > > machines come and go. The feeling is very much that your stuff is in > > the cloud. > > i was going to mention this. to me the current view of cloud > computing as evidence by papers like this[1] are basically hardware > infrastructure capable of running vm pools each of which would do > exactly what a dedicated server would do. the main benefits being low > administration cost and elasticity. networking, authentication and > authorization remain as they are now. they are still not addressing > what octopus and rangboom are trying to address: how to seamlessly and > automatically make resources accessible. if you read what ken said it > appears to be this view of cloud computing; he said "some framework to > allow many loosely-coupled Plan9 systems to emulate a single system > that would be larger and more reliable". in all virtualization > systems i've seen the vm has to be smaller than the environment it > runs on. if vmware or xen were ever to give you a vm that was larger > than any given real machine it ran on, they'd have to solve the same > problem. I'm not sure a single system image is any better in the long run than Distributed Shared Memory. Both have issues of locality, where the abstraction that gives you the view of a single machine hurts your ability to account for the lack of locality. In other words, I think applications should show a single system image but maybe not programming models. I'm not 100% sure what I mean by that actually, but it's sort of an intuitive feeling. > > > [1] http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Pubs/TechRpts/2009/EECS-2009-28.pdf > > > --00151750e50a36ac5d0467ea0b69 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 12:12 AM, Skip T= avakkolian <9nut@9= netics.com> wrote:
> Well, in the octopus you have a fixed part, the pc, but all other
> machines come and go. The feeling is very much that your stuff is in > the cloud.

i was going to mention this. =A0to me the current view of cloud
computing as evidence by papers like this[1] are basically hardware
infrastructure capable of running vm pools each of which would do
exactly what a dedicated server would do. =A0the main benefits being low administration cost and elasticity. =A0networking, authentication and
authorization remain as they are now. =A0they are still not addressing
what octopus and rangboom are trying to address: how to seamlessly and
automatically make resources accessible. =A0if you read what ken said it appears to be this view of cloud computing; he said "some framework to=
allow many loosely-coupled Plan9 systems to emulate a single system
that would be larger and more reliable". =A0in all virtualization
systems i've seen the vm has to be smaller than the environment it
runs on. =A0if vmware or xen were ever to give you a vm that was larger
than any given real machine it ran on, they'd have to solve the same problem.

I'm not sure a single system i= mage is any better in the long run than Distributed Shared Memory. =A0Both = have issues of locality, where the abstraction that gives you the view of a= single machine hurts your ability to account for the lack of locality.

In other words, I think applications should show a sing= le system image but maybe not programming models. =A0I'm not 100% sure = what I mean by that actually, but it's sort of an intuitive feeling.
=A0


[1] http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Pubs/TechRpts/2009/EEC= S-2009-28.pdf



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