9fans - fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
* [9fans] APL
@ 2021-02-21 22:31 Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
  2021-02-21 23:01 ` Skip Tavakkolian
                   ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) @ 2021-02-21 22:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Plan 9 from Bell Labs

Long ago and far away I built/ran Thompson's APL (from the V7 source
tape IIRC) on one of the VAXen.  This was very much pre-ANSI C code,
but the Ultrix 1.1 compiler handled it fine.

About 15 years ago I dusted off the source and started converting
it to ANSI C, but I got distracted and have since lost the source.
Has anyone here done anything similar.  I would really like to have
a native APL (even an ancient one like above).  If anyone did get
it converted to ANSI, a native port could be bootstrapped through
APE. 

Failing that, does anybody have a copy of the original source
kicking around?  Since the virus is going to keep me locked up
for a few more months yet, porting would help pass the time :-)

--lyndon

P.S.  Yes I know there are a million other APLs out there, as
well as J and the assorted follow-ons.  It's the V7 code I'm
specifically interested in.  Maybe it's tucked away in the
bitsaver archives ...

------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T476a1d7b83269775-Md699c49a884f9c671dd08404
Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] APL
  2021-02-21 22:31 [9fans] APL Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
@ 2021-02-21 23:01 ` Skip Tavakkolian
  2021-02-21 23:19 ` Kurt H Maier
  2021-02-22  1:24 ` Bakul Shah
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Skip Tavakkolian @ 2021-02-21 23:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1353 bytes --]

Have you seen Rob's Ivy? It's in Go.

On Sun, Feb 21, 2021, 2:32 PM Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) <
lyndon@orthanc.ca> wrote:

> Long ago and far away I built/ran Thompson's APL (from the V7 source
> tape IIRC) on one of the VAXen.  This was very much pre-ANSI C code,
> but the Ultrix 1.1 compiler handled it fine.
> 
> About 15 years ago I dusted off the source and started converting
> it to ANSI C, but I got distracted and have since lost the source.
> Has anyone here done anything similar.  I would really like to have
> a native APL (even an ancient one like above).  If anyone did get
> it converted to ANSI, a native port could be bootstrapped through
> APE.
> 
> Failing that, does anybody have a copy of the original source
> kicking around?  Since the virus is going to keep me locked up
> for a few more months yet, porting would help pass the time :-)
> 
> --lyndon
> 
> P.S.  Yes I know there are a million other APLs out there, as
> well as J and the assorted follow-ons.  It's the V7 code I'm
> specifically interested in.  Maybe it's tucked away in the
> bitsaver archives ...

------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T476a1d7b83269775-M8cc9d7ba17eca92a48d76793
Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2680 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] APL
  2021-02-21 22:31 [9fans] APL Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
  2021-02-21 23:01 ` Skip Tavakkolian
@ 2021-02-21 23:19 ` Kurt H Maier
  2021-02-22  1:24 ` Bakul Shah
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Kurt H Maier @ 2021-02-21 23:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Sun, Feb 21, 2021 at 02:31:13PM -0800, Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) wrote:
> Failing that, does anybody have a copy of the original source
> kicking around?  Since the virus is going to keep me locked up
> for a few more months yet, porting would help pass the time :-)

Michael Cain's code is available in sigapl's archive.  It's a cleaned-up 
version of the Purdue version that came with 2.11BSD, which is in all 
kinds of archives.  It's pretty much a direct descendent of the code
you're describing.

There was a TUHS thread that touched on this some time ago:
https://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/2014-July/006414.html

I think your best shot is Mark's copy of apl.tar:
http://maxhost.org/other/apl.tar 
but there's not much provenance info there (aside from the presence of a
makefile.pdp).

khm 

------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T476a1d7b83269775-M8a28100591a50fbafd236e4d
Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] APL
  2021-02-21 22:31 [9fans] APL Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
  2021-02-21 23:01 ` Skip Tavakkolian
  2021-02-21 23:19 ` Kurt H Maier
@ 2021-02-22  1:24 ` Bakul Shah
  2021-02-22 16:53   ` jas
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread
From: Bakul Shah @ 2021-02-22  1:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 541 bytes --]

On Feb 21, 2021, at 2:33 PM, Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) <lyndon@orthanc.ca> wrote:
> I would really like to have a native APL (even an ancient one like above).

Not quite what you asked for but ktye’s APL seems promising. Written in Go,
uses unicode APL characters, etc. 

https://github.com/ktye/iv
------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T476a1d7b83269775-M5235bd6a10294f6240eca7bb
Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1297 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] APL
  2021-02-22  1:24 ` Bakul Shah
@ 2021-02-22 16:53   ` jas
  2021-02-22 17:46     ` arnold
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread
From: jas @ 2021-02-22 16:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 544 bytes --]

Lyndon,

Let us know if you find that source as it unfortunately doesn't appear to be on netlib.org.

P.S.  Yes I know there are a million other APLs out there, as
well as J and the assorted follow-ons.  It's the V7 code I'm
specifically interested in.  Maybe it's tucked away in the
bitsaver archives ...


------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T476a1d7b83269775-M6239b6398c03cb109c7623d7
Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3209 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] APL
  2021-02-22 16:53   ` jas
@ 2021-02-22 17:46     ` arnold
  2021-02-22 18:28       ` tlaronde
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread
From: arnold @ 2021-02-22 17:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

jas@corpus-callosum.com wrote:

> Lyndon,
>
> Let us know if you find that source as it unfortunately doesn't appear to be on netlib.org.
>
> P.S.  Yes I know there are a million other APLs out there, as
> well as J and the assorted follow-ons.  It's the V7 code I'm
> specifically interested in.  Maybe it's tucked away in the
> bitsaver archives ...

Have you checked the TUHS archives? V7 source is there, it should
be all of it...

Arnold

------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T476a1d7b83269775-M36e9482b0f5cf587ed422a89
Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] APL
  2021-02-22 17:46     ` arnold
@ 2021-02-22 18:28       ` tlaronde
  2021-02-22 20:35         ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
  2021-02-22 22:01         ` Bakul Shah
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: tlaronde @ 2021-02-22 18:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Hello,

I have the CSRG Archives CDROM set, with archives from 1978 to 1993
and final 4.4 and 4.4BSD-Lite2.

There are various versions of an APL interpreter and, amongst these,
a version by Ken Thompson, Ross Harvey, Douglas Lanam.

Is that this one you are looking for?

Apparently Caldera has granted a free licence to use, modify and
redistribute files for 16bit PDP-11 and early 32bits Unix (version
1 to 7) and it seems it covers this (since the BSD were derived
from and then reimplemented the software to get rid of the licence).

The CD set is available from
https://www.mckusick.com/csrg/cdorderform.html

If I'm not mistaken about the Caldera licence, I can place somewhere
a tarball with this APL code, if this is what you are interested in
(but I would like to be sure I'm not violating someone licence or
copyright before doing so).
-- 
        Thierry Laronde <tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com>
                     http://www.kergis.com/
                    http://kertex.kergis.com/
                       http://www.sbfa.fr/
Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89  250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C

------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T476a1d7b83269775-M95df7c6e65aab86abbff5e42
Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] APL
  2021-02-22 18:28       ` tlaronde
@ 2021-02-22 20:35         ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
  2021-02-22 21:44           ` Charles Forsyth
  2021-02-23  7:57           ` tlaronde
  2021-02-22 22:01         ` Bakul Shah
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) @ 2021-02-22 20:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans, tlaronde

tlaronde@polynum.com writes:

> There are various versions of an APL interpreter and, amongst these,
> a version by Ken Thompson, Ross Harvey, Douglas Lanam.
>
> Is that this one you are looking for?

That sounds like the one.  It's entirely possible the version I
started with came from one of the BSD tapes (we were source
licensed so we had the full set of tapes from V6 onwards).

I have the CSRG CD set, but it's in a box in a storage locker
right now.  Is there any chance you could pull the above APL
source files and leave them someplace I could grab them from?
(9p.io would work fine.)

Thanks!

--lyndon

------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T476a1d7b83269775-M1bad1e99ac35796f23d98c47
Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] APL
  2021-02-22 20:35         ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
@ 2021-02-22 21:44           ` Charles Forsyth
  2021-02-23  8:14             ` tlaronde
  2021-02-23  7:57           ` tlaronde
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread
From: Charles Forsyth @ 2021-02-22 21:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans; +Cc: tlaronde

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1334 bytes --]

I'm fairly sure Thompson wrote it on sabbatical in Berkeley. I think he
also wrote the first version of a Pascal compiler.
Pascal isn't a difficult language but I remember that compiler having an
unusual style. I think others reworked it significantly later,
so if it's there at all it's worth looking at the earliest possible one.

On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 8:37 PM Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) <
lyndon@orthanc.ca> wrote:

> tlaronde@polynum.com writes:
>
> > There are various versions of an APL interpreter and, amongst these,
> > a version by Ken Thompson, Ross Harvey, Douglas Lanam.
> >
> > Is that this one you are looking for?
> 
> That sounds like the one.  It's entirely possible the version I
> started with came from one of the BSD tapes (we were source
> licensed so we had the full set of tapes from V6 onwards).
> 
> I have the CSRG CD set, but it's in a box in a storage locker
> right now.  Is there any chance you could pull the above APL
> source files and leave them someplace I could grab them from?
> (9p.io would work fine.)
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> --lyndon

------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T476a1d7b83269775-M1d37bce19d6151f033b72125
Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2773 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] APL
  2021-02-22 18:28       ` tlaronde
  2021-02-22 20:35         ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
@ 2021-02-22 22:01         ` Bakul Shah
  2021-02-22 22:43           ` Charles Forsyth
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread
From: Bakul Shah @ 2021-02-22 22:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Feb 22, 2021, at 10:28 AM, tlaronde@polynum.com wrote:
> 
> There are various versions of an APL interpreter and, amongst these,
> a version by Ken Thompson, Ross Harvey, Douglas Lanam.

This can be found in Diomidis Spinellis' unix history repo @

https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-repo/tree/BSD-3/usr/src/cmd/apl

Synthesized from 3bsd, which you can find it here:

https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/UCB/3bsd.tar.gz

------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T476a1d7b83269775-M6b93af6ab332e6cbfb8ca7c7
Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] APL
  2021-02-22 22:01         ` Bakul Shah
@ 2021-02-22 22:43           ` Charles Forsyth
  2021-02-22 23:09             ` Bakul Shah
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread
From: Charles Forsyth @ 2021-02-22 22:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 937 bytes --]

It's amusing that the github has "42 years ago".

You can tell instantly that the line
if (TERMtype == 0)c = (int)*iline++;
wasn't written by Thompson.

On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 10:02 PM Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org> wrote:

> On Feb 22, 2021, at 10:28 AM, tlaronde@polynum.com wrote:
> >
> > There are various versions of an APL interpreter and, amongst these,
> > a version by Ken Thompson, Ross Harvey, Douglas Lanam.
> 
> This can be found in Diomidis Spinellis' unix history repo @
> 
> https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-repo/tree/BSD-3/usr/src/cmd/apl
> 
> Synthesized from 3bsd, which you can find it here:
> 
> https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/UCB/3bsd.tar.gz

------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T476a1d7b83269775-Mae4997e3e15481dbbab01024
Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 4090 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] APL
  2021-02-22 22:43           ` Charles Forsyth
@ 2021-02-22 23:09             ` Bakul Shah
  2021-02-22 23:56               ` Charles Forsyth
  2021-02-23  0:03               ` Steffen Nurpmeso
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Bakul Shah @ 2021-02-22 23:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2276 bytes --]

Spinellis has put together a browsable repo based on various source distributions
which I find useful. I keep a local copy as it is under 2GB. All I had to do was 

git log | less -ip "ross harvey"

Michael Cain's version on sigapl.org site seems to be a different fork. Also worked
over quite a bit.

> On Feb 22, 2021, at 2:43 PM, Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> It's amusing that the github has "42 years ago".
> 
> You can tell instantly that the line
>       if (TERMtype == 0)c = (int)*iline++;
> wasn't written by Thompson.
> 
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 10:02 PM Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org <mailto:bakul@iitbombay.org>> wrote:
> On Feb 22, 2021, at 10:28 AM, tlaronde@polynum.com <mailto:tlaronde@polynum.com> wrote:
> > 
> > There are various versions of an APL interpreter and, amongst these,
> > a version by Ken Thompson, Ross Harvey, Douglas Lanam.
> 
> This can be found in Diomidis Spinellis' unix history repo @
> 
> https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-repo/tree/BSD-3/usr/src/cmd/apl <https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-repo/tree/BSD-3/usr/src/cmd/apl>
> 
> Synthesized from 3bsd, which you can find it here:
> 
> https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/UCB/3bsd.tar.gz <https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/UCB/3bsd.tar.gz>
> 
> ------------------------------------------
> 9fans: 9fans
> Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T476a1d7b83269775-M6b93af6ab332e6cbfb8ca7c7 <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T476a1d7b83269775-M6b93af6ab332e6cbfb8ca7c7>
> Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription>
> 9fans <https://9fans.topicbox.com/latest> / 9fans / see discussions <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans> + participants <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/members> + delivery options <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription>Permalink <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T476a1d7b83269775-Mae4997e3e15481dbbab01024>

------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T476a1d7b83269775-M281c649ebf07b0d790f318f5
Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 5552 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] APL
  2021-02-22 23:09             ` Bakul Shah
@ 2021-02-22 23:56               ` Charles Forsyth
  2021-02-23  0:13                 ` Bakul Shah
  2021-02-23  0:03               ` Steffen Nurpmeso
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread
From: Charles Forsyth @ 2021-02-22 23:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1897 bytes --]

It's more interesting that one is immediate by inspection. But why?

On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 11:10 PM Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org> wrote:

> Spinellis has put together a browsable repo based on various source
> distributions
> which I find useful. I keep a local copy as it is under 2GB. All I had to
> do was
>
> git log | less -ip "ross harvey"
>
> Michael Cain's version on sigapl.org site seems to be a different fork.
> Also worked
> over quite a bit.
>
> On Feb 22, 2021, at 2:43 PM, Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> It's amusing that the github has "42 years ago".
>
> You can tell instantly that the line
> if (TERMtype == 0)c = (int)*iline++;
> wasn't written by Thompson.
>
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 10:02 PM Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org> wrote:
>
>> On Feb 22, 2021, at 10:28 AM, tlaronde@polynum.com wrote:
>> >
>> > There are various versions of an APL interpreter and, amongst these,
>> > a version by Ken Thompson, Ross Harvey, Douglas Lanam.
>> 
>> This can be found in Diomidis Spinellis' unix history repo @
>> 
>> https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-repo/tree/BSD-3/usr/src/cmd/apl
>> 
>> Synthesized from 3bsd, which you can find it here:
>> 
>> https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/UCB/3bsd.tar.gz
>
> *9fans <https://9fans.topicbox.com/latest>* / 9fans / see discussions
> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans> + participants
> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/members> + delivery options
> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription> Permalink
> <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T476a1d7b83269775-M281c649ebf07b0d790f318f5>
>

------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T476a1d7b83269775-Ma78673da48df4053820043fa
Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 5297 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] APL
  2021-02-22 23:09             ` Bakul Shah
  2021-02-22 23:56               ` Charles Forsyth
@ 2021-02-23  0:03               ` Steffen Nurpmeso
  2021-02-23  0:47                 ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread
From: Steffen Nurpmeso @ 2021-02-23  0:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

Bakul Shah wrote in
 <5C11A3AC-A66C-4336-BF37-55DB2C4EB1F1@iitbombay.org>:
 |Spinellis has put together a browsable repo based on various source \
 |distributions
 |which I find useful. I keep a local copy as it is under 2GB. All I \

It can even be as small as 

  #?0|kent:unix-hist$ du -sh .
  179M    .

when not including all the new FreeBSD things (for which i at
least track the FreeBSD git repository directly):

  #?0|kent:unix-hist$ cat .git/config
  [core]
          repositoryformatversion = 0
          filemode = true
          bare = false
          logallrefupdates = true
          precomposeunicode = true
  [remote "origin"]
          url = https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-repo.git
    fetch = +refs/heads/386BSD-0.0-Snapshot-Development:refs/remotes/origin/386BSD-0.0-Snapshot-Development
    fetch = +refs/heads/386BSD-0.1-Snapshot-Development:refs/remotes/origin/386BSD-0.1-Snapshot-Development
    fetch = +refs/heads/386BSD-0.1-patchkit:refs/remotes/origin/386BSD-0.1-patchkit
    fetch = +refs/heads/386BSD-0.1-patchkit-Import:refs/remotes/origin/386BSD-0.1-patchkit-Import
    fetch = +refs/heads/386BSD-Release:refs/remotes/origin/386BSD-Release
    fetch = +refs/heads/BSD-1-Snapshot-Development:refs/remotes/origin/BSD-1-Snapshot-Development
    fetch = +refs/heads/BSD-2-Snapshot-Development:refs/remotes/origin/BSD-2-Snapshot-Development
    fetch = +refs/heads/BSD-3-Snapshot-Development:refs/remotes/origin/BSD-3-Snapshot-Development
    fetch = +refs/heads/BSD-4-Snapshot-Development:refs/remotes/origin/BSD-4-Snapshot-Development
    fetch = +refs/heads/BSD-4_1_snap-Snapshot-Development:refs/remotes/origin/BSD-4_1_snap-Snapshot-Development
    fetch = +refs/heads/BSD-4_1c_2-Snapshot-Development:refs/remotes/origin/BSD-4_1c_2-Snapshot-Development
    fetch = +refs/heads/BSD-4_2-Snapshot-Development:refs/remotes/origin/BSD-4_2-Snapshot-Development
    fetch = +refs/heads/BSD-4_3-Snapshot-Development:refs/remotes/origin/BSD-4_3-Snapshot-Development
    fetch = +refs/heads/BSD-4_3_Net_1-Snapshot-Development:refs/remotes/origin/BSD-4_3_Net_1-Snapshot-Development
    fetch = +refs/heads/BSD-4_3_Net_2-Snapshot-Development:refs/remotes/origin/BSD-4_3_Net_2-Snapshot-Development
    fetch = +refs/heads/BSD-4_3_Reno-Snapshot-Development:refs/remotes/origin/BSD-4_3_Reno-Snapshot-Development
    fetch = +refs/heads/BSD-4_3_Tahoe-Snapshot-Development:refs/remotes/origin/BSD-4_3_Tahoe-Snapshot-Development
    fetch = +refs/heads/BSD-4_4-Snapshot-Development:refs/remotes/origin/BSD-4_4-Snapshot-Development
    fetch = +refs/heads/BSD-4_4_Lite1-Snapshot-Development:refs/remotes/origin/BSD-4_4_Lite1-Snapshot-Development
    fetch = +refs/heads/BSD-4_4_Lite2-Snapshot-Development:refs/remotes/origin/BSD-4_4_Lite2-Snapshot-Development
    fetch = +refs/heads/BSD-Release:refs/remotes/origin/BSD-Release
    fetch = +refs/heads/BSD-SCCS:refs/remotes/origin/BSD-SCCS
    fetch = +refs/heads/Bell-32V-Snapshot-Development:refs/remotes/origin/Bell-32V-Snapshot-Development
    fetch = +refs/heads/Bell-Release:refs/remotes/origin/Bell-Release
    fetch = +refs/heads/Epoch:refs/remotes/origin/Epoch
    fetch = +refs/heads/Research-PDP7-Snapshot-Development:refs/remotes/origin/Research-PDP7-Snapshot-Development
    fetch = +refs/heads/Research-Release:refs/remotes/origin/Research-Release
    fetch = +refs/heads/Research-V1-Snapshot-Development:refs/remotes/origin/Research-V1-Snapshot-Development
    fetch = +refs/heads/Research-V2-Snapshot-Development:refs/remotes/origin/Research-V2-Snapshot-Development
    fetch = +refs/heads/Research-V3-Snapshot-Development:refs/remotes/origin/Research-V3-Snapshot-Development
    fetch = +refs/heads/Research-V4-Snapshot-Development:refs/remotes/origin/Research-V4-Snapshot-Development
    fetch = +refs/heads/Research-V5-Snapshot-Development:refs/remotes/origin/Research-V5-Snapshot-Development
    fetch = +refs/heads/Research-V6-Snapshot-Development:refs/remotes/origin/Research-V6-Snapshot-Development
    fetch = +refs/heads/Research-V7-Snapshot-Development:refs/remotes/origin/Research-V7-Snapshot-Development
    fetch = +refs/heads/usr/src/BSD-SCCS-Import:refs/remotes/origin/usr/src/BSD-SCCS-Import

--steffen
|
|Der Kragenbaer,                The moon bear,
|der holt sich munter           he cheerfully and one by one
|einen nach dem anderen runter  wa.ks himself off
|(By Robert Gernhardt)

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] APL
  2021-02-22 23:56               ` Charles Forsyth
@ 2021-02-23  0:13                 ` Bakul Shah
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Bakul Shah @ 2021-02-23  0:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2772 bytes --]

Clearly someone ran lint on the ucb code :-) Both have the iline variable
(char* on Cain's version, unsigned char* in ucb).

> On Feb 22, 2021, at 3:56 PM, Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> It's more interesting that one is immediate by inspection. But why?
> 
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 11:10 PM Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org <mailto:bakul@iitbombay.org>> wrote:
> Spinellis has put together a browsable repo based on various source distributions
> which I find useful. I keep a local copy as it is under 2GB. All I had to do was 
> 
> git log | less -ip "ross harvey"
> 
> Michael Cain's version on sigapl.org <http://sigapl.org/> site seems to be a different fork. Also worked
> over quite a bit.
> 
>> On Feb 22, 2021, at 2:43 PM, Charles Forsyth <charles.forsyth@gmail.com <mailto:charles.forsyth@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> It's amusing that the github has "42 years ago".
>> 
>> You can tell instantly that the line
>>      if (TERMtype == 0)c = (int)*iline++;
>> wasn't written by Thompson.
>> 
>> On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 10:02 PM Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org <mailto:bakul@iitbombay.org>> wrote:
>> On Feb 22, 2021, at 10:28 AM, tlaronde@polynum.com <mailto:tlaronde@polynum.com> wrote:
>> > 
>> > There are various versions of an APL interpreter and, amongst these,
>> > a version by Ken Thompson, Ross Harvey, Douglas Lanam.
>> 
>> This can be found in Diomidis Spinellis' unix history repo @
>> 
>> https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-repo/tree/BSD-3/usr/src/cmd/apl <https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-repo/tree/BSD-3/usr/src/cmd/apl>
>> 
>> Synthesized from 3bsd, which you can find it here:
>> 
>> https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/UCB/3bsd.tar.gz <https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/UCB/3bsd.tar.gz>
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------
>> 9fans: 9fans
>> Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T476a1d7b83269775-M6b93af6ab332e6cbfb8ca7c7 <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T476a1d7b83269775-M6b93af6ab332e6cbfb8ca7c7>
>> Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription>
> 
> 9fans <https://9fans.topicbox.com/latest> / 9fans / see discussions <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans> + participants <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/members> + delivery options <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription>Permalink <https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T476a1d7b83269775-Ma78673da48df4053820043fa>

------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T476a1d7b83269775-M908b018371372b7d51ca53bb
Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 6632 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] APL
  2021-02-23  0:03               ` Steffen Nurpmeso
@ 2021-02-23  0:47                 ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
  2021-02-23  4:41                   ` ori
  2021-02-24 13:48                   ` Steffen Nurpmeso
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) @ 2021-02-23  0:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans, Steffen Nurpmeso

Steffen Nurpmeso writes:

> It can even be as small as 
>
>   #?0|kent:unix-hist$ du -sh .
>   179M    .
>
> when not including all the new FreeBSD things (for which i at
> least track the FreeBSD git repository directly):

Okay, so what's the magic incantation to clone just that subset
of branches?  git-clone(1) is not helpful ...

--lyndon

------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T476a1d7b83269775-Mdd3b46b53bcc065bccf7b218
Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] APL
  2021-02-23  0:47                 ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
@ 2021-02-23  4:41                   ` ori
  2021-02-23  5:11                     ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
  2021-02-23  5:16                     ` Bakul Shah
  2021-02-24 13:48                   ` Steffen Nurpmeso
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: ori @ 2021-02-23  4:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans, steffen

Quoth Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) <lyndon@orthanc.ca>:
> Steffen Nurpmeso writes:
> 
> > It can even be as small as 
> >
> >   #?0|kent:unix-hist$ du -sh .
> >   179M    .
> >
> > when not including all the new FreeBSD things (for which i at
> > least track the FreeBSD git repository directly):
> 
> Okay, so what's the magic incantation to clone just that subset
> of branches?  git-clone(1) is not helpful ...
> 
> --lyndon

On unix, this should do it:

        git clone --single-branch \
                --branch Research-V4-Snapshot-Development \
                https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-repo

On plan 9, hot off the press:

        git/clone -b $branch \
                https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-repo

Unfortunately, git9 has no fetch specs, so keeping a
*set* of branches will be a bit clunky


------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T476a1d7b83269775-Mc746ce5de6725eeb5dd0459a
Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] APL
  2021-02-23  4:41                   ` ori
@ 2021-02-23  5:11                     ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
  2021-02-23  5:16                     ` Bakul Shah
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) @ 2021-02-23  5:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans, ori

ori@eigenstate.org writes:

>         git clone --single-branch \
>                 --branch Research-V4-Snapshot-Development \

I must be blind.  I completely glossed over 'single-branch'.
But I might have to go back to the SCCS archive on the CDs,
anyway, since Spinellis' repo doesn't seem to have preserved
the actual SCCS commit messages, just the fact they happened.

> On plan 9, hot off the press:
>         git/clone -b $branch \

I don't have the native git installed yet.  This might be enough
to prod me into it.

Thanks!

--lyndon

------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T476a1d7b83269775-Mec7fc82154006da06aee1e82
Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] APL
  2021-02-23  4:41                   ` ori
  2021-02-23  5:11                     ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
@ 2021-02-23  5:16                     ` Bakul Shah
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Bakul Shah @ 2021-02-23  5:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans



> On Feb 22, 2021, at 8:41 PM, ori@eigenstate.org wrote:
> 
> Quoth Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) <lyndon@orthanc.ca>:
>> Steffen Nurpmeso writes:
>> 
>>> It can even be as small as 
>>> 
>>>  #?0|kent:unix-hist$ du -sh .
>>>  179M    .
>>> 
>>> when not including all the new FreeBSD things (for which i at
>>> least track the FreeBSD git repository directly):
>> 
>> Okay, so what's the magic incantation to clone just that subset
>> of branches?  git-clone(1) is not helpful ...
>> 
>> --lyndon
> 
> On unix, this should do it:
> 
>        git clone --single-branch \
>                --branch Research-V4-Snapshot-Development \
>                https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-repo
> 
> On plan 9, hot off the press:
> 
>        git/clone -b $branch \
>                https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-repo
> 
> Unfortunately, git9 has no fetch specs, so keeping a
> *set* of branches will be a bit clunky

For multiple branches try something like the following:

git clone https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-repo.git --depth 1 -b Epoch

Without the --depth 1 flag git insists on fetching all 1.9GB of git objects!
But +fetch= lines in .git/config's are not fixed up. As these branches are not
likely to change, that is probably ok.

Next run the following, editing out the branches you don't want.
This list is everything except FreeBSD branches. Amounts to 188MB.

git fetch origin 386BSD-0.0-Snapshot-Development:386BSD-0.0-Snapshot-Development\
 386BSD-0.1-Snapshot-Development:386BSD-0.1-Snapshot-Development\
 386BSD-0.1-patchkit:386BSD-0.1-patchkit\
 386BSD-0.1-patchkit-Import:386BSD-0.1-patchkit-Import\
 386BSD-Release:386BSD-Release\
 BSD-1-Snapshot-Development:BSD-1-Snapshot-Development\
 BSD-2-Snapshot-Development:BSD-2-Snapshot-Development\
 BSD-3-Snapshot-Development:BSD-3-Snapshot-Development\
 BSD-4-Snapshot-Development:BSD-4-Snapshot-Development\
 BSD-4_1_snap-Snapshot-Development:BSD-4_1_snap-Snapshot-Development\
 BSD-4_1c_2-Snapshot-Development:BSD-4_1c_2-Snapshot-Development\
 BSD-4_2-Snapshot-Development:BSD-4_2-Snapshot-Development\
 BSD-4_3-Snapshot-Development:BSD-4_3-Snapshot-Development\
 BSD-4_3_Net_1-Snapshot-Development:BSD-4_3_Net_1-Snapshot-Development\
 BSD-4_3_Net_2-Snapshot-Development:BSD-4_3_Net_2-Snapshot-Development\
 BSD-4_3_Reno-Snapshot-Development:BSD-4_3_Reno-Snapshot-Development\
 BSD-4_3_Tahoe-Snapshot-Development:BSD-4_3_Tahoe-Snapshot-Development\
 BSD-4_4-Snapshot-Development:BSD-4_4-Snapshot-Development\
 BSD-4_4_Lite1-Snapshot-Development:BSD-4_4_Lite1-Snapshot-Development\
 BSD-4_4_Lite2-Snapshot-Development:BSD-4_4_Lite2-Snapshot-Development\
 BSD-Release:BSD-Release BSD-SCCS:BSD-SCCS\
 Bell-32V-Snapshot-Development:Bell-32V-Snapshot-Development\
 Bell-Release:Bell-Release Research-PDP7-Snapshot-Development:Research-PDP7-Snapshot-Development\
 Research-Release:Research-Release\
 Research-V1-Snapshot-Development:Research-V1-Snapshot-Development\
 Research-V2-Snapshot-Development:Research-V2-Snapshot-Development\
 Research-V3-Snapshot-Development:Research-V3-Snapshot-Development\
 Research-V4-Snapshot-Development:Research-V4-Snapshot-Development\
 Research-V5-Snapshot-Development:Research-V5-Snapshot-Development\
 Research-V6-Snapshot-Development:Research-V6-Snapshot-Development\
 Research-V7-Snapshot-Development:Research-V7-Snapshot-Development\
 usr/src/BSD-SCCS-Import:usr/src/BSD-SCCS-Import
------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T476a1d7b83269775-M164190580e3d2b269501e9f0
Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] APL
  2021-02-22 20:35         ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
  2021-02-22 21:44           ` Charles Forsyth
@ 2021-02-23  7:57           ` tlaronde
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: tlaronde @ 2021-02-23  7:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM); +Cc: 9fans

Hello,

FWIW, I have put two versions I found under kergis.com downloads zone:

http://downloads.kergis.com/misc/apl4_0.tar.gz

and

http://downloads.kergis.com/misc/apl4_3.tar.gz

The version number is relative to the BSD version it was released with.

The 4.0 has a cat1 man page mentioning Ken Thompson (but it is not
present in apl.1?!!!).

The 4.3 version tells a story that links to what Charles told: Ken
Thompson wrote the Unix version, then went to Purdue and Berkeley. The
4.3 version is the Purdue version with modifications made, so is derived
from Ken Thompson's version.

In coding style, the versions are quite different. The sizes too!

T. Laronde

On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 12:35:56PM -0800, Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) wrote:
> tlaronde@polynum.com writes:
> 
> > There are various versions of an APL interpreter and, amongst these,
> > a version by Ken Thompson, Ross Harvey, Douglas Lanam.
> >
> > Is that this one you are looking for?
> 
> That sounds like the one.  It's entirely possible the version I
> started with came from one of the BSD tapes (we were source
> licensed so we had the full set of tapes from V6 onwards).
> 
> I have the CSRG CD set, but it's in a box in a storage locker
> right now.  Is there any chance you could pull the above APL
> source files and leave them someplace I could grab them from?
> (9p.io would work fine.)
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> --lyndon

-- 
        Thierry Laronde <tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com>
                     http://www.kergis.com/
                    http://kertex.kergis.com/
                       http://www.sbfa.fr/
Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89  250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C

------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T476a1d7b83269775-M2130d4f25b9f75f96c788359
Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] APL
  2021-02-22 21:44           ` Charles Forsyth
@ 2021-02-23  8:14             ` tlaronde
  2021-02-23  8:58               ` arnold
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread
From: tlaronde @ 2021-02-23  8:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 09:44:54PM +0000, Charles Forsyth wrote:
> I'm fairly sure Thompson wrote it on sabbatical in Berkeley. I think he
> also wrote the first version of a Pascal compiler.
> Pascal isn't a difficult language but I remember that compiler having an
> unusual style. I think others reworked it significantly later,
> so if it's there at all it's worth looking at the earliest possible one.
> 

The Pascal compiler rings a bell... It would be fun indeed to derived a
version from it so that, finally, TeX and al. could be "natively"
compiled instead of converting the (pseudo) Pascal to C (this is web2c
purpose or, as I have named it, pp2rc---Pseudo Pascal to Raw C).
-- 
        Thierry Laronde <tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com>
                     http://www.kergis.com/
                    http://kertex.kergis.com/
                       http://www.sbfa.fr/
Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89  250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C

------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T476a1d7b83269775-M3970db773e71081f039bfc81
Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] APL
  2021-02-23  8:14             ` tlaronde
@ 2021-02-23  8:58               ` arnold
  2021-02-23  9:20                 ` tlaronde
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread
From: arnold @ 2021-02-23  8:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

tlaronde@polynum.com wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 09:44:54PM +0000, Charles Forsyth wrote:
> > I'm fairly sure Thompson wrote it on sabbatical in Berkeley. I think he
> > also wrote the first version of a Pascal compiler.
> > Pascal isn't a difficult language but I remember that compiler having an
> > unusual style. I think others reworked it significantly later,
> > so if it's there at all it's worth looking at the earliest possible one.
> > 
>
> The Pascal compiler rings a bell... It would be fun indeed to derived a
> version from it so that, finally, TeX and al. could be "natively"
> compiled instead of converting the (pseudo) Pascal to C (this is web2c
> purpose or, as I have named it, pp2rc---Pseudo Pascal to Raw C).

There was an interpreter for P-code and (I think later) a compiler
for the Vax. You'd have to port it to current architectures, and
compiling TeX would probably make TeX run more slowly than the C version.

The Berkeley Pascals were some of the compilers used for "Software Tools
in Pascal".

Arnold

------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T476a1d7b83269775-M29f8ec6d6c8474c6d36e66e1
Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] APL
  2021-02-23  8:58               ` arnold
@ 2021-02-23  9:20                 ` tlaronde
  2021-02-23  9:57                   ` arnold
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread
From: tlaronde @ 2021-02-23  9:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 01:58:16AM -0700, arnold@skeeve.com wrote:
> tlaronde@polynum.com wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 09:44:54PM +0000, Charles Forsyth wrote:
> > > I'm fairly sure Thompson wrote it on sabbatical in Berkeley. I think he
> > > also wrote the first version of a Pascal compiler.
> > > Pascal isn't a difficult language but I remember that compiler having an
> > > unusual style. I think others reworked it significantly later,
> > > so if it's there at all it's worth looking at the earliest possible one.
> > > 
> >
> > The Pascal compiler rings a bell... It would be fun indeed to derived a
> > version from it so that, finally, TeX and al. could be "natively"
> > compiled instead of converting the (pseudo) Pascal to C (this is web2c
> > purpose or, as I have named it, pp2rc---Pseudo Pascal to Raw C).
> 
> There was an interpreter for P-code and (I think later) a compiler
> for the Vax. You'd have to port it to current architectures, and
> compiling TeX would probably make TeX run more slowly than the C version.
> 
> The Berkeley Pascals were some of the compilers used for "Software Tools
> in Pascal".

The Pascal version would probably be a bit slower. And it would be more
an alternative to verify the code than a primary way, since in fact
D.E.K. has not written the program in some Pascal but in Algol, a high
level abstract description, the wizardry being in the data structures.
And, indeed, only the control flows are being translated from pseudo 
Pascal to C, the core---the data structures---being handled by ad-hoc
code.

And for the architectures, like other compilers, the aim would be to
convert to some intermediate language (perhaps assembly) and to borrow
the back-ends.

But it is all vaporware: I have to implement supplementary primitives
for the new version of LaTeX and I'm already late (not started yet)...
-- 
        Thierry Laronde <tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com>
                     http://www.kergis.com/
                    http://kertex.kergis.com/
                       http://www.sbfa.fr/
Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89  250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C

------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T476a1d7b83269775-Me5e205d80b9776ae87385457
Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] APL
  2021-02-23  9:20                 ` tlaronde
@ 2021-02-23  9:57                   ` arnold
  2021-02-23 10:09                     ` tlaronde
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 27+ messages in thread
From: arnold @ 2021-02-23  9:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

This is getting off topic ...

> > There was an interpreter for P-code and (I think later) a compiler
> > for the Vax. You'd have to port it to current architectures, and
> > compiling TeX would probably make TeX run more slowly than the C version.
> > 
> > The Berkeley Pascals were some of the compilers used for "Software Tools
> > in Pascal".
>
> The Pascal version would probably be a bit slower. And it would be more
> an alternative to verify the code than a primary way, since in fact
> D.E.K. has not written the program in some Pascal but in Algol, a high
> level abstract description, the wizardry being in the data structures.

It's Pascal, but in literate form with WEB.  I've read "Tex: The Program". :-)

> And, indeed, only the control flows are being translated from pseudo 
> Pascal to C, the core---the data structures---being handled by ad-hoc
> code.

Could be, I'm not familiar with how web2c works.

> And for the architectures, like other compilers, the aim would be to
> convert to some intermediate language (perhaps assembly) and to borrow
> the back-ends.

I think the Pascal compiler used the PCC back end, but I no longer
remember for sure. If so, you might could hook it up to the revived PCC
project.

Although it sounds like a fun project, there are probably better
uses for your time. :-)

Arnold

------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T476a1d7b83269775-Mc80e8615b718f628a8468339
Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] APL
  2021-02-23  9:57                   ` arnold
@ 2021-02-23 10:09                     ` tlaronde
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: tlaronde @ 2021-02-23 10:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans

On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 02:57:44AM -0700, arnold@skeeve.com wrote:
> This is getting off topic ...
> 

Yes... ;-)

> > > There was an interpreter for P-code and (I think later) a compiler
> > > for the Vax. You'd have to port it to current architectures, and
> > > compiling TeX would probably make TeX run more slowly than the C version.
> > > 
> > > The Berkeley Pascals were some of the compilers used for "Software Tools
> > > in Pascal".
> >
> > The Pascal version would probably be a bit slower. And it would be more
> > an alternative to verify the code than a primary way, since in fact
> > D.E.K. has not written the program in some Pascal but in Algol, a high
> > level abstract description, the wizardry being in the data structures.
> 
> It's Pascal, but in literate form with WEB.  I've read "Tex: The Program". :-)

What I wanted to say is that D.E.K. has put aside all that is "system
dependent". Yes it's Pascal, but the very least common denominator with
all that is system dependent isolated so that porting (or translating)
is easy with the change files and the chunks identified.

I never managed to like Pascal (the language taught when I
was---vaguely---in college) and I, first, would have liked that it was
CWEB and not WEB (C and not Pascal). But, indeed, it is an abstract way
of describing and prevent a myriad of hasardous hacks. So D.E.K.'s was
not a bad choice alltogether...
-- 
        Thierry Laronde <tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com>
                     http://www.kergis.com/
                    http://kertex.kergis.com/
                       http://www.sbfa.fr/
Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89  250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C

------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T476a1d7b83269775-Mef5e8af94c52c9c5c0bd15b3
Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] APL
  2021-02-23  0:47                 ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
  2021-02-23  4:41                   ` ori
@ 2021-02-24 13:48                   ` Steffen Nurpmeso
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Steffen Nurpmeso @ 2021-02-24 13:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM); +Cc: 9fans

Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) wrote in
 <0903a00d50966fc2@orthanc.ca>:
 |Steffen Nurpmeso writes:
 |> It can even be as small as 
 |>
 |>   #?0|kent:unix-hist$ du -sh .
 |>   179M    .
 |>
 |> when not including all the new FreeBSD things (for which i at
 |> least track the FreeBSD git repository directly):

Traffic size is a real issue for me.
(As is quality of the rtw88 driver of Linux 5.10.*, as is the fact
that git i think still cannot resume failed clones.  I anyway had
lots and lots of trouble and yes grief due to this, here.)

 |Okay, so what's the magic incantation to clone just that subset
 |of branches?  git-clone(1) is not helpful ...

Backward compatible for "the one real git" is

 $ cd DIR; git init
 $ git remote add origin -t BRANCH1 -t BRANCH2 -t 'release/*' URL
 $ git fetch -v

Or git init and then copy the snippet :)
(Mind you, just a few weeks ago on FreeBSD it turned out that
i should re-learn git from scratch.  I turned to it around
2010/11, wrote some scripts and aliases, and unless they break,
for example due to rev-list reverting output in about 2013, i have
a very basic way of doing, lots of update-ref and such, for
example.)

And sorry for the late reply, after weeks of -11° Celsius and
months of winter we had 31° more yesterday, including sunshine,
and i went for cycling.  Then someone reported a brain-damage of
mine in software i maintain, and i had to make a release, and then
it was about 3 o'clock in the morning.

--steffen
|Der Kragenbaer,                The moon bear,
|der holt sich munter           he cheerfully and one by one
|einen nach dem anderen runter  wa.ks himself off
|(By Robert Gernhardt)

------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T476a1d7b83269775-Mded9eca8705205b15d2110ca
Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

* Re: [9fans] APL
@ 2021-02-24  0:33 Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 27+ messages in thread
From: Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) @ 2021-02-24  0:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 9fans, Bakul Shah

tlaronde pointed me at the APL that shipped in the contrib
directory in 4.3BSD.  In hindsight I suspect that was the
version I spun up at Athabasca U way back when (1989ish).

I was quite surprised to see that a substantial chunk of it
managed to compile 'out of the box' on OpenBSD 6.8 (albeit
with a flood of warnings :-)):

: lyndon@broken:/u/lyndon/src/apl/4.3/usr/contrib/apl/src; ls *.[co]
Llx.c    a4.c     a8.o     ac.o     ag.c     ak.c     ao.o     ax.c     gamma.c
a0.c     a5.c     a9.c     ad.c     ag.o     al.c     aplcvt.c ax.o     lex.c
a1.c     a6.c     aa.c     ae.c     ah.c     am.c     aq.c     ay.c     tab.c
a2.c     a7.c     aa.o     ae.o     ai.c     an.c     at.c     az.c     xed.c
a3.c     a7.o     ab.c     af.c     aj.c     an.o     at.o     az.o     y.tab.c
a3.o     a8.c     ac.c     af.o     aj.o     ao.c     aw.c     cata.c   y.tab.o

Seems like a viable candidate to base the port on.

--lyndon

------------------------------------------
9fans: 9fans
Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T233ff29f045d64a9-Mb2cc2b7e0f346fbbd83e53dd
Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 27+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2021-02-24 13:49 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 27+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2021-02-21 22:31 [9fans] APL Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
2021-02-21 23:01 ` Skip Tavakkolian
2021-02-21 23:19 ` Kurt H Maier
2021-02-22  1:24 ` Bakul Shah
2021-02-22 16:53   ` jas
2021-02-22 17:46     ` arnold
2021-02-22 18:28       ` tlaronde
2021-02-22 20:35         ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
2021-02-22 21:44           ` Charles Forsyth
2021-02-23  8:14             ` tlaronde
2021-02-23  8:58               ` arnold
2021-02-23  9:20                 ` tlaronde
2021-02-23  9:57                   ` arnold
2021-02-23 10:09                     ` tlaronde
2021-02-23  7:57           ` tlaronde
2021-02-22 22:01         ` Bakul Shah
2021-02-22 22:43           ` Charles Forsyth
2021-02-22 23:09             ` Bakul Shah
2021-02-22 23:56               ` Charles Forsyth
2021-02-23  0:13                 ` Bakul Shah
2021-02-23  0:03               ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2021-02-23  0:47                 ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
2021-02-23  4:41                   ` ori
2021-02-23  5:11                     ` Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
2021-02-23  5:16                     ` Bakul Shah
2021-02-24 13:48                   ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2021-02-24  0:33 Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)

9fans - fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs

This inbox may be cloned and mirrored by anyone:

	git clone --mirror http://inbox.vuxu.org/9fans

	# If you have public-inbox 1.1+ installed, you may
	# initialize and index your mirror using the following commands:
	public-inbox-init -V1 9fans 9fans/ http://inbox.vuxu.org/9fans \
		9fans@9fans.net
	public-inbox-index 9fans

Example config snippet for mirrors.
Newsgroup available over NNTP:
	nntp://inbox.vuxu.org/vuxu.archive.9fans


AGPL code for this site: git clone https://public-inbox.org/public-inbox.git