From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: <41764785.7040706@anvil.com> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:09:57 +0100 From: Dave Lukes User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.1 (X11/20040626) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] alright, this should be interesting References: <35b09c83f408fc9fd7a2b0d019a96010@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> <41753982.2090903@anvil.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Topicbox-Message-UUID: f176a0bc-eacd-11e9-9e20-41e7f4b1d025 Contains an analogy in severely bad taste at the end: don't read the last part if likely to be offended by it. Tim, > > You are missing the point of what I said: > I must be, because I still dont agree with your point. OK, let me try again ... Firstly, the existence of this thread is partial proof of my point: we wouldn't be having this discussion at all if gcc/linux/... didn't exist. >>In other words, if you have a crufty kernel, you'll have a smelly >>compiler, >>and vice-versa. >> >> > >Why? You could build a fresh smelling compiler like 8c/8a/8l. > > BUT THEY DIDN'T!!! They built g-goddamned-cc, and I almost weep when I think what the million monkeys who committed that particular crime against code could have done if they'd been given some education in style, taste etc. Bad examples lead to more badness: if you stare at crap for long enough, you start to think that crap is the One True Way. >but.. if you were to go in to work one day and found that some >linux (*bsd, slolaris, win32, etc..) box that you used on a daily >basis was running a plan9 emulation layer that was running rio, >acme, 9p and the whole shebang, how would it matter to you what >was under the covers? > > Well, firstly, it would matter intrinsically because I am a decent human being who wants to eliminate suffering, and whoever had built your emulation layer would either be a) (worst case scenario) banging their head against the wall of a padded cell or, b) (probable best case scenario) wandering around saying things like: "Well, the SmackMyIoVecUp() call with the optional BarbedWireandCatONineTails option is not so bad, really, when you get used to it", and then I'd have to kill them, which would ruin their whole day. Yes, I know that Really Clever People (many of whom will read this) can build Really Good Systems on top of crud, but the fact is that, in the general case, People Don't: they build bigger piles of Crap. Neither does the existence of the Good Stuff somehow improve, or excuse the existence of, the underlying Crap. Does one small Good Thing somehow ameliorate the existence of loads of Bad Things? And now, sorry in advance, but it's That Time of Year ... Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. "Yes, I know Hitler was responsible for the murder of your paternal grandparents, but, hey, the Communists burned down the bier-keller just after he spoke there, so that was Really Cool, right?!" Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. DaveL.