[Fwd: [Fwd: Re: [9fans] acme + mh]]

[Fwd: [Fwd: Re: [9fans] acme + mh]]

[Ronald G Minnich]

 >Could you elaborate?  You need to use Put rather than Save to create a
 >`folder' (alternate mailbox); is that your objection?  You should be
 >able to create hierarchies too; though I have done only a very limited
 >form of this.


ok, Geoff, I decided to do this as a naive mail user, which for the most 
part I am anyway.

So I look at a message. it is /mail/fs/mbox/9 or some such. I go to the 
tag bar and change it to /mail/fs/mbox/plan9/9.

Of course it fails, as expected, but the question is, what DO you do?

I tried this too
mkdir -p $home/mail/plan9
then, in the tag bar, change
/mail/fs/mbox/9
to
/usr/rminnich/mail/plan9/9
and Put does ... nothing.

So, I see a few problems here:
- I don't want to name the messages or worry about their number
- or fool with retyping the name in the tag bar

What I want is to somehow point at a message, click on something in the 
tag bar, then click on a folder in another window, and have the message 
move. This is another class of Delete, in some sense: Deletemsg and move 
it too. So the (deleted) tag could actually become a (folder) tag, and 
(deleted) could be a folder too. Then Put would do all the refiling for 
me. This just occurred to me, now I gotta go look at Mail source and see 
if it is comprehensible enough for me to do it :-)

Acme mail is an interesting foundation for a mailer, but it won't cut it 
for people I am trying to show Plan 9. At the same time, I like its 
simplicity, and still think it has a more sensible feel than (e.g.) 
tundrabird, the Super-Mailer of the Future.

thanks

ron

[9fans] Re: acme mail

[Russ Cox]

> So I look at a message. it is /mail/fs/mbox/9 or some such. I go to the 
> tag bar and change it to /mail/fs/mbox/plan9/9.

All you have to do to save the message somewhere
is type extra text in the tag after the "Save " and then 
execute it.  I save spam that has made its way into
my inbox by typing spam next to Save and then executing
"Save spam".

If you want a hierarchy, create directories under
/mail/box/rminnich and then use Save a/b/c.

I'm not sure what Geoff was trying to say, but you can't
use Put usefully in any acme mail window except the
main one (to actually delete messages marked as
deleted).

> What I want is to somehow point at a message, click on something in the 
> tag bar, then click on a folder in another window, and have the message 
> move. 

That's interesting but not how things are done in acme.
You're trying to push the drag-and-drop metaphor into
places where it was not intended.  I'm not claiming your
approach is worse; it's just not the way things are typically
done in acme.

I note that your approach requires having some other window
with a list of folders.  Typing next to Save does not.

> Acme mail is an interesting foundation for a mailer, but it won't cut it 
> for people I am trying to show Plan 9. At the same time, I like its 
> simplicity, and still think it has a more sensible feel than (e.g.) 
> tundrabird, the Super-Mailer of the Future.

I am not convinced.

If they want Thunderbird, they know where to find it.

I have been using acme mail again for the past week
or so, and it's really nice to be back, especially after
the drag-and-drop clumsiness of most mailers.  

I am running a new upas/fs and a slightly-changed 
version of acme mail.  In my setup (though not in the
standard one - yet), Save goes through upas/fs, so
that in fact all my mail - incoming and saved - is kept
on the mail server.  It doesn't matter whether I Save on
my laptop or on my desktop.

Russ

Re: [9fans] Re: acme mail

[Ronald G Minnich]

Russ Cox wrote:

> That's interesting but not how things are done in acme.
> You're trying to push the drag-and-drop metaphor into
> places where it was not intended.  

hmm, I wasn't really after drag and drop.

But let me try again.

Could I sweep out a section of the main mail window, do a
|filter
in the tag line, and then end up with the messages marked with where 
they will be filtered to, in ()? i.e. (9fans)- in front of a message, 
(deleted)- in front of others, and so on. Then all I do is a Put and 
things get filed.

Then I could build up my rules bit by bit, to the point that I can read 
mail, and just file it as needed.

I would rather read and file, rather than have some filter auto-file and 
then I read from lots of different places. But that's me. Lots of people 
I know want it filed before they read it.


> I note that your approach requires having some other window
> with a list of folders.  Typing next to Save does not.

Agreed. At the same time, I have about 100 folders, and don't always 
remember them all. A list can be useful.

> I have been using acme mail again for the past week
> or so, and it's really nice to be back, especially after
> the drag-and-drop clumsiness of most mailers.  

I'm pretty sick of drag and drop. But I need an interface that lets me 
filter a lot of mail fast.

> 
> I am running a new upas/fs and a slightly-changed 
> version of acme mail.  In my setup (though not in the
> standard one - yet), Save goes through upas/fs, so
> that in fact all my mail - incoming and saved - is kept
> on the mail server.  It doesn't matter whether I Save on
> my laptop or on my desktop.
> 

neat. I've tried to do something like this with the linux mailers and 
it's a bit of a pain -- when you can do it at all.

Also, our mail allocation at LANL is ONE GB -- I can't fit there.

ron

Re: [9fans] Re: acme mail

[David Leimbach]

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>
>
> I'm pretty sick of drag and drop. But I need an interface that lets me
> filter a lot of mail fast.
>
And for years I thought the "Dragon Drop" was something you'd see in
professional wrestling.


Ok that's probably not good enough for the fortunes file.

Dave

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Re: [9fans] Re: acme mail

[Dan Cross]

On Mon, Feb 20, 2006 at 03:37:01PM -0800, David Leimbach wrote:
> Ok that's probably not good enough for the fortunes file.

Nothing is good enough for the fortune file!  I have posted witticisms to
9fans for years, and have yet to see anything come of it!

	- Dan C.

Re: [9fans] Re: acme mail

[George Michaelson]

On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 19:22:05 -0500
Dan Cross <cross@math.psu.edu> wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 20, 2006 at 03:37:01PM -0800, David Leimbach wrote:
> > Ok that's probably not good enough for the fortunes file.
> 
> Nothing is good enough for the fortune file!  I have posted
> witticisms to 9fans for years, and have yet to see anything come of
> it!

oh, that is DEFINITELY good enough for the fortunes file..

<recurse...>

-G

Re: [9fans] Re: acme mail

[Steve Simon]

Too slow

Re: [9fans] Re: acme mail

[Charles Forsyth]

> Nothing is good enough for the fortune file!  I have posted witticisms to
> 9fans for years, and have yet to see anything come of it!

i think you first must have a few letters published in The Times.

Re: [9fans] Re: acme mail

[Dan Cross]

On Tue, Feb 21, 2006 at 09:41:57AM +0000, Charles Forsyth wrote:
> > Nothing is good enough for the fortune file!  I have posted witticisms to
> > 9fans for years, and have yet to see anything come of it!
> 
> i think you first must have a few letters published in The Times.

Of London or of New York?

But it appears that my dry spell is over.  I've been vindicated!

	- Dan C.

Re: [9fans] Re: acme mail

[Skip Tavakkolian]

>> > Nothing is good enough for the fortune file!  I have posted witticisms to
>> > 9fans for years, and have yet to see anything come of it!
>> 
>> i think you first must have a few letters published in The Times.
> 
> Of London or of New York?

It has to be Times of London.  Getting into the NY Times is much easier than
the fortune file; just ask Judy Miller and Jayson Blair.

Re: [9fans] Re: acme mail

[geoff]

> I'm not sure what Geoff was trying to say, but you can't use Put
> usefully in any acme mail window except the main one (to actually
> delete messages marked as deleted).

Actually you can use it with an absolute path (e.g., `Put
/usr/geoff/stuff.m'), but you're right, it doesn't do anything useful
with a relative path, to my slight surprise.  I guess I'd expected it
to work like Save, except that it would create a non-existent file
first, instead of complaining (which seems to be the difference if you
supply an absolute path).

Re: [9fans] Re: acme mail

[Russ Cox]

> Actually you can use it with an absolute path (e.g., `Put
> /usr/geoff/stuff.m'), but you're right, it doesn't do anything useful
> with a relative path, to my slight surprise.  I guess I'd expected it
> to work like Save, except that it would create a non-existent file
> first, instead of complaining (which seems to be the difference if you
> supply an absolute path).

This works only because the Put message is being handed
back to acme, which is executing it internally.  Thus the
window contents, not the underlying message, gets written
to the named file.

Russ