* [9fans] p9sk2 @ 2005-10-04 21:04 Uriel 2005-10-04 21:16 ` Axel Belinfante 2005-10-04 21:44 ` Russ Cox 0 siblings, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Uriel @ 2005-10-04 21:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans I was trying to document -O in cpu(1) which is undocumented, it enables 'p9sk2', but what that does is rather confusing, my initial guess was that it was a deprecated version of p9sk1, but lookman p9sk2 pointed me at factotum(4) which says: p9sk1 a Plan 9 shared key protocol described in authsrv(6)'s ``File Service'' section. p9sk2 a variant of p9sk1 described in authsrv(6)'s ``Remote Execution'' section. (Oh, and it seems that factotum(4) in p9p and in Plan 9 are out of sync.. *sigh*) Looking at authsrv(6) leaves me even more confused. But auth/factotum/p9sk1.c seems to confirm the original theory: % grep p9sk2 /sys/src/cmd/auth/factotum/p9sk1.c|sed 1q * p9sk1, p9sk2 - Plan 9 secret (private) key authentication. This all started because cpu -O is used in http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Drawterm_to_your_terminal/ My guess is that it's needed for drawterm to be able to connect, will dt2k fix that? what is up with dt2k anyway? uriel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] p9sk2 2005-10-04 21:04 [9fans] p9sk2 Uriel @ 2005-10-04 21:16 ` Axel Belinfante 2005-10-04 21:30 ` Axel Belinfante 2005-10-04 21:48 ` Skip Tavakkolian 2005-10-04 21:44 ` Russ Cox 1 sibling, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Axel Belinfante @ 2005-10-04 21:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs > I was trying to document -O in cpu(1) which is undocumented, > My guess is that it's needed for drawterm to be able to connect, will dt2k > fix that? what is up with dt2k anyway? I looked for -O and -R in the source yesterday, when I was trying enable not only drawterm but also cpu to the terminal, for which one needs listeners on ports cpu and ncpu respectively, which call cpu with -O and -R respectively. what I remember is that -O starts old9p which translates between the old 9p and 9p2000. Axel. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] p9sk2 2005-10-04 21:16 ` Axel Belinfante @ 2005-10-04 21:30 ` Axel Belinfante 2005-10-04 21:38 ` Uriel 2005-10-04 21:48 ` Skip Tavakkolian 1 sibling, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread From: Axel Belinfante @ 2005-10-04 21:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs I wrote to quickly: > > I was trying to document -O in cpu(1) which is undocumented, > > > My guess is that it's needed for drawterm to be able to connect, > > will dt2k fix that? what is up with dt2k anyway? > > I looked for -O and -R in the source yesterday, > when I was trying enable not only drawterm but also > cpu to the terminal, for which one needs listeners > on ports cpu and ncpu respectively, > which call cpu with -O and -R respectively. > > what I remember is that -O starts old9p which > translates between the old 9p and 9p2000. in addition it indeed seems to select p9sk2 instead of p9any as auth proto. (I seem to recall that p9sk2 was discussed here some time ago). Axel. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] p9sk2 2005-10-04 21:30 ` Axel Belinfante @ 2005-10-04 21:38 ` Uriel 0 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Uriel @ 2005-10-04 21:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Tue, Oct 04, 2005 at 11:30:27PM +0200, Axel Belinfante wrote: > > what I remember is that -O starts old9p which > > translates between the old 9p and 9p2000. > in addition it indeed seems to select p9sk2 instead of p9any as auth > proto. This much I had figured out... > (I seem to recall that p9sk2 was discussed here some time ago). Searching all I can find is http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.plan9/msg/b031d22ac909c3d7 which seems to indicate the man pages have been somewhat confused for years. uriel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] p9sk2 2005-10-04 21:16 ` Axel Belinfante 2005-10-04 21:30 ` Axel Belinfante @ 2005-10-04 21:48 ` Skip Tavakkolian 1 sibling, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Skip Tavakkolian @ 2005-10-04 21:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > what I remember is that -O starts old9p which > translates between the old 9p and 9p2000. cpu -O causes cpu to talk to drawterm with srvold9p betwixt. i drew a .pic of it once, if you want it. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] p9sk2 2005-10-04 21:04 [9fans] p9sk2 Uriel 2005-10-04 21:16 ` Axel Belinfante @ 2005-10-04 21:44 ` Russ Cox 2005-10-04 21:52 ` andrey mirtchovski ` (4 more replies) 1 sibling, 5 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Russ Cox @ 2005-10-04 21:44 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > I was trying to document -O in cpu(1) which is undocumented, it enables It is like -R (run the server aka remote side of the protocol) except that it runs the pre-9P2000 server side. It is undocumented because you never say it yourself on the command line (just like -R) and because it needs to go away. It persists only because of drawterm. > 'p9sk2', but what that does is rather confusing, my initial guess was that it > was a deprecated version of p9sk1, but lookman p9sk2 pointed me at > factotum(4) which says: > > p9sk1 a Plan 9 shared key protocol described in > authsrv(6)'s ``File Service'' section. > p9sk2 a variant of p9sk1 described in authsrv(6)'s > ``Remote Execution'' section. Authsrv(6) is still describing the pre-9P2000 protocols. Except for the 9P stuff, it's still accurate and does describe p9sk1 and p9sk2 (without naming them) in the sections mentioned. /sys/doc/auth.ps has a quick sketch of p9sk1 that may well be easier to digest, and http://swtch.com/usr/local/plan9/src/cmd/auth/factotum/p9sk1.c has a similar sketch and tells you exactly what messages are in play in both. P9sk2 exists only for backwards compatibility when connecting to old (pre-9P2000) services. It does not authenticate the server to the client, only vice versa. It was used by cpu in the old days, as you've no doubt figured out. > (Oh, and it seems that factotum(4) in p9p and in Plan 9 are out of sync.. > *sigh*) Both factotum(4)s accurately describe their respective factotums. Go ahead. Complain that the factotum programs are out of sync too. > This all started because cpu -O is used in > http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Drawterm_to_your_terminal/ > > My guess is that it's needed for drawterm to be able to connect, will dt2k > fix that? what is up with dt2k anyway? As it always is, progress is slow. Skip and Brucee have added Windows support to dt2k, and Andrey has been maintaining it. I use it for days at a time without problems on Linux except that snarf doesn't work. Others have reported problems. At the moment, it's really far down on my to do list, and no one else is stepping up to the plate. Russ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] p9sk2 2005-10-04 21:44 ` Russ Cox @ 2005-10-04 21:52 ` andrey mirtchovski 2005-10-04 22:05 ` geoff 2005-10-04 22:38 ` Skip Tavakkolian 2005-10-04 22:10 ` Uriel ` (3 subsequent siblings) 4 siblings, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: andrey mirtchovski @ 2005-10-04 21:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > Skip and Brucee have added Windows > support to dt2k, and Andrey has been maintaining it. I use it for days > at a time without problems on Linux except that snarf doesn't work. > Others have reported problems. At the moment, it's really far down > on my to do list, and no one else is stepping up to the plate. i'm also using dt2k without any trouble (even copy/paste seems to work for me just fine, in linux). i've switched to it exclusively and haven't had it crash since the last recompile which happened a month or two ago. andrey ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] p9sk2 2005-10-04 21:52 ` andrey mirtchovski @ 2005-10-04 22:05 ` geoff 2005-10-04 22:28 ` andrey mirtchovski 2005-10-04 22:38 ` Skip Tavakkolian 1 sibling, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread From: geoff @ 2005-10-04 22:05 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans Is the drawterm.tgz on your web page up to date (and is it dt2k)? Should I generate a new round of binaries? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] p9sk2 2005-10-04 22:05 ` geoff @ 2005-10-04 22:28 ` andrey mirtchovski 0 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: andrey mirtchovski @ 2005-10-04 22:28 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > Is the drawterm.tgz on your web page up to date (and is it dt2k)? > Should I generate a new round of binaries? no, those are still old-9p drawterm binaries. russ has set up a cvs repository for dt2k which i commit my changes to, if i have any. i don't know whether he has made it available anywhere for download. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] p9sk2 2005-10-04 21:52 ` andrey mirtchovski 2005-10-04 22:05 ` geoff @ 2005-10-04 22:38 ` Skip Tavakkolian 2005-10-04 22:41 ` Russ Cox 2005-10-04 22:42 ` andrey mirtchovski 1 sibling, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Skip Tavakkolian @ 2005-10-04 22:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > i'm also using dt2k without any trouble (even copy/paste seems to work > for me just fine, in linux). i've switched to it exclusively and > haven't had it crash since the last recompile which happened a month > or two ago. i've use dt2k on windows all the time. the only problem i know of is the keyboard alt+char input. it isn't fatal as i can cut and paste out of /lib/keyboard. i think somebody already fixed this. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] p9sk2 2005-10-04 22:38 ` Skip Tavakkolian @ 2005-10-04 22:41 ` Russ Cox 2005-10-04 22:42 ` andrey mirtchovski 1 sibling, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Russ Cox @ 2005-10-04 22:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs > > i'm also using dt2k without any trouble (even copy/paste seems to work > > for me just fine, in linux). i've switched to it exclusively and > > haven't had it crash since the last recompile which happened a month > > or two ago. > > i've use dt2k on windows all the time. the only problem i know of is > the keyboard alt+char input. it isn't fatal as i can cut and paste > out of /lib/keyboard. i think somebody already fixed this. this has to be an issue of just not calling the latin1 code from the windows keyboard driver. it works on linux. russ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] p9sk2 2005-10-04 22:38 ` Skip Tavakkolian 2005-10-04 22:41 ` Russ Cox @ 2005-10-04 22:42 ` andrey mirtchovski 1 sibling, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: andrey mirtchovski @ 2005-10-04 22:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs i have no idea how divergent the X code is from the windows one as far as functionality is concerned -- i've added things from the old drawterm such as keysym input and scroll-button support. andrey ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] p9sk2 2005-10-04 21:44 ` Russ Cox 2005-10-04 21:52 ` andrey mirtchovski @ 2005-10-04 22:10 ` Uriel 2005-10-04 23:21 ` Skip Tavakkolian ` (2 subsequent siblings) 4 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Uriel @ 2005-10-04 22:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Tue, Oct 04, 2005 at 05:44:04PM -0400, Russ Cox wrote: > > I was trying to document -O in cpu(1) which is undocumented, it enables > > It is like -R (run the server aka remote side of the protocol) > except that it runs the pre-9P2000 server side. > It is undocumented because you never say it yourself > on the command line (just like -R) I'm not sure that just because you don't call it directly it means that it should not be documented, you still need to use some times, see: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Drawterm_to_your_terminal/ > and because it needs to go away. It persists only because of > drawterm. On that I will agree. > > My guess is that it's needed for drawterm to be able to connect, will dt2k > > fix that? what is up with dt2k anyway? > > As it always is, progress is slow. Skip and Brucee have added Windows > support to dt2k, and Andrey has been maintaining it. I use it for days > at a time without problems on Linux except that snarf doesn't work. > Others have reported problems. At the moment, it's really far down > on my to do list, and no one else is stepping up to the plate. First one would have to find the source... wasn't drawterm(2k) supposed to move to sources? I know f2f had the source in his site, but it's not linked from anywhere, and I can't recall the address, and that was a while ago, so who knows if the code is up to date? The stuff in /sys/src/cmd/unix/drawterm looks quite outdated. uriel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] p9sk2 2005-10-04 21:44 ` Russ Cox 2005-10-04 21:52 ` andrey mirtchovski 2005-10-04 22:10 ` Uriel @ 2005-10-04 23:21 ` Skip Tavakkolian 2005-10-04 23:26 ` Russ Cox ` (2 more replies) 2005-10-05 7:20 ` Richard Miller [not found] ` <67a09890a59797f569b0456bb3edcc86@hamnavoe.com> 4 siblings, 3 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Skip Tavakkolian @ 2005-10-04 23:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > As it always is, progress is slow. Skip and Brucee have added Windows > support to dt2k, and Andrey has been maintaining it. I use it for days > at a time without problems on Linux except that snarf doesn't work. > Others have reported problems. At the moment, it's really far down > on my to do list, and no one else is stepping up to the plate. i think richard added the ssl to dt2k. also, brucee -- as part of 9netics work -- added aan support to a dt2k derivative. if geoff, andrey (or russ) want to do it, it would be a clean operation to take the changes and patch dt2k. there is a new aanfs and cpu.c that goes with it. it is experimental. it is not fully tested. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] p9sk2 2005-10-04 23:21 ` Skip Tavakkolian @ 2005-10-04 23:26 ` Russ Cox 2005-10-04 23:35 ` Russ Cox 2005-10-04 23:36 ` David Leimbach 2 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Russ Cox @ 2005-10-04 23:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs > > As it always is, progress is slow. Skip and Brucee have added Windows > > support to dt2k, and Andrey has been maintaining it. I use it for days > > at a time without problems on Linux except that snarf doesn't work. > > Others have reported problems. At the moment, it's really far down > > on my to do list, and no one else is stepping up to the plate. > > i think richard added the ssl to dt2k. > > also, brucee -- as part of 9netics work -- added aan support to a dt2k > derivative. if geoff, andrey (or russ) want to do it, it would be a > clean operation to take the changes and patch dt2k. there is a new > aanfs and cpu.c that goes with it. it is experimental. it is not fully tested. you just made my day. russ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] p9sk2 2005-10-04 23:21 ` Skip Tavakkolian 2005-10-04 23:26 ` Russ Cox @ 2005-10-04 23:35 ` Russ Cox 2005-10-05 0:11 ` Uriel 2005-10-04 23:36 ` David Leimbach 2 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread From: Russ Cox @ 2005-10-04 23:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs > > As it always is, progress is slow. Skip and Brucee have added Windows > > support to dt2k, and Andrey has been maintaining it. I use it for days > > at a time without problems on Linux except that snarf doesn't work. > > Others have reported problems. At the moment, it's really far down > > on my to do list, and no one else is stepping up to the plate. > > i think richard added the ssl to dt2k. he added ssl to the 9P1 drawterm. it was always part of dt2k, since in 9P2000 cpu, encryption is required. (in old cpu it is merely optional.) the cvs repository that andrey mentioned is at http://cvs.pdos.csail.mit.edu/cvs/drawterm the checkout procedure is the same as plan 9 from user space, replacing "plan9" with "drawterm" in the cvs command. russ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] p9sk2 2005-10-04 23:35 ` Russ Cox @ 2005-10-05 0:11 ` Uriel 2005-10-05 0:19 ` Russ Cox 0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread From: Uriel @ 2005-10-05 0:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Tue, Oct 04, 2005 at 07:35:59PM -0400, Russ Cox wrote: > he added ssl to the 9P1 drawterm. > it was always part of dt2k, since in 9P2000 cpu, > encryption is required. (in old cpu it is merely optional.) > > the cvs repository that andrey mentioned is at > http://cvs.pdos.csail.mit.edu/cvs/drawterm I thought I had looked there and could not find it, I need to have my eyes checked... Can we kill /n/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/unix/drawterm? it's outdated and misleading. While we are at it,9pfreebsd provably should move to sources/extra/old/ or something like that as it's only of historical interest and there is no point in wasting space in the default source tree; and tcs.shar.Z can probably die as it's part of p9p this days. If someone could put a set of precompiled drawterm binaries in sources it would be great, the least sites we have to keep track of, the better. I went and created a stub for a wiki drawterm page: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/drawterm/ uriel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] p9sk2 2005-10-05 0:11 ` Uriel @ 2005-10-05 0:19 ` Russ Cox 2005-10-05 0:22 ` Skip Tavakkolian ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Russ Cox @ 2005-10-05 0:19 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs > Can we kill /n/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/unix/drawterm? it's outdated > and misleading. Outdated, yes. Misleading, no. Once dt2k is a suitable replacement, I will put it there. Dt2k is still a work in progress and the old drawterm still works. > If someone could put a set of precompiled drawterm binaries in sources > it would be great, the least sites we have to keep track of, the better. Eventually this will happen. Things move slowly, but with such little time to do any work, there's no point in doing work before it's time. Of course, if you're volunteering, ... Russ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] p9sk2 2005-10-05 0:19 ` Russ Cox @ 2005-10-05 0:22 ` Skip Tavakkolian 2005-10-05 1:27 ` Uriel [not found] ` <000001c5c94e$82d49890$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> 2 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Skip Tavakkolian @ 2005-10-05 0:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > but with > such little time to do any work, there's no point in doing > work before it's time. this seems good enough to be a fortune. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] p9sk2 2005-10-05 0:19 ` Russ Cox 2005-10-05 0:22 ` Skip Tavakkolian @ 2005-10-05 1:27 ` Uriel 2005-10-05 1:50 ` Russ Cox 2005-10-05 2:13 ` jmk [not found] ` <000001c5c94e$82d49890$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> 2 siblings, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Uriel @ 2005-10-05 1:27 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Tue, Oct 04, 2005 at 08:19:21PM -0400, Russ Cox wrote: > > Can we kill /n/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/unix/drawterm? it's outdated > > and misleading. > > Outdated, yes. Misleading, no. Once dt2k is a suitable replacement, > I will put it there. Dt2k is still a work in progress and the old > drawterm still works. As others have noted dt2k seems to work fine, I just checked it, not only it seems to work fine and feels much faster than the old drawterm, it fixes most of the really annoying bugs that plagued the old drawterm, it also simplifies things because we can forget about the old 9P. If dt2k is not perfect yet, I don't care, it's much better than the old drawterm, of course hiding it in a vault I doubt anyone will test it. > > If someone could put a set of precompiled drawterm binaries in sources > > it would be great, the least sites we have to keep track of, the better. > Eventually this will happen. Things move slowly, but with > such little time to do any work, there's no point in doing > work before it's time. Of course, if you're volunteering, ... I have put Linux and FreeBSD binaries in: /n/sources/contrib/uriel/drawterm/2005-10-05/ I will put the OpenBSD binaries tomorrow once I install X on my obsd box. If someone has other binaries(specially windows) please send them to me and I will put them there. Release early, release often, and if you don't like it, look at Google. uriel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] p9sk2 2005-10-05 1:27 ` Uriel @ 2005-10-05 1:50 ` Russ Cox 2005-10-05 2:13 ` jmk 1 sibling, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Russ Cox @ 2005-10-05 1:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs > As others have noted dt2k seems to work fine, I just checked it, not > only it seems to work fine and feels much faster than the old drawterm, > it fixes most of the really annoying bugs that plagued the old drawterm, > it also simplifies things because we can forget about the old 9P. Seems to work fine and actually works fine are two different things. > If dt2k is not perfect yet, I don't care, it's much better than the old > drawterm, of course hiding it in a vault I doubt anyone will test it. You may not care, but I do. And web links to dt2k have been in a bunch of 9fans postings, perhaps from before your time but that's what search engines are for. > I have put Linux and FreeBSD binaries in: > /n/sources/contrib/uriel/drawterm/2005-10-05/ > I will put the OpenBSD binaries tomorrow once I install X on my obsd > box. If someone has other binaries(specially windows) please send them > to me and I will put them there. Thank you. Russ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] p9sk2 2005-10-05 1:27 ` Uriel 2005-10-05 1:50 ` Russ Cox @ 2005-10-05 2:13 ` jmk 2005-10-05 4:56 ` LiteStar numnums 2005-10-24 13:52 ` Uriel 1 sibling, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: jmk @ 2005-10-05 2:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans >Release early, release often, and if you don't like it, look at Google. wtf does that mean? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] p9sk2 2005-10-05 2:13 ` jmk @ 2005-10-05 4:56 ` LiteStar numnums 2005-10-24 13:52 ` Uriel 1 sibling, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: LiteStar numnums @ 2005-10-05 4:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 936 bytes --] Just to gander a guess, but possibly the whole 'everything is beta forever' wonder that is google? On 10/4/05, jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com <jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com> wrote: > > >Release early, release often, and if you don't like it, look at Google. > > wtf does that mean? > -- The subject of this essay (the Myth of Sisyphus) is precisely this relationship between the absurd and suicide, the exact degree to which suicide is a solution to the absurd. The principle can be established that for a man who does not cheat, what he believes to be true must determine his action. Belief in the absurdity of existence must then dictate his conduct. It is legitimate to wonder, clearly and without false pathos, whether a conclusion of this importance requires forsaking as rapidly possiblean imcompre- hensible condition. I am speaking, of course, of men inclined to be in harmony with themselves. << Albert Camus>> [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1375 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] p9sk2 2005-10-05 2:13 ` jmk 2005-10-05 4:56 ` LiteStar numnums @ 2005-10-24 13:52 ` Uriel 2005-10-24 14:17 ` jmk 1 sibling, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread From: Uriel @ 2005-10-24 13:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Tue, Oct 04, 2005 at 10:13:46PM -0400, jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: >>Release early, release often, and if you don't like it, look at Google. > > wtf does that mean? "Design and build software, even operating systems, to be tried early, ideally within weeks. Don't hesitate to throw away the clumsy parts and rebuild them." -- The Bell System Technical Journal. Bell Laboratories. M. D. McIlroy, E. N. Pinson, and B. A. Tague. "Unix Time-Sharing System Forward" 1978. 57 (6, part 2). p. 1902. The google reference can be seen in recent interviews with Rob and others about how their release process works. I have heard of people complaining that working alone one doesn't get much feedback... but what do I know, I'm just the buffoon of the court. uriel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] p9sk2 2005-10-24 13:52 ` Uriel @ 2005-10-24 14:17 ` jmk 0 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: jmk @ 2005-10-24 14:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans it was the 'look at google' reference i didn't get. you're right about everything else. On Mon Oct 24 09:53:11 EDT 2005, uriell@binarydream.org wrote: > On Tue, Oct 04, 2005 at 10:13:46PM -0400, jmk@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: > >>Release early, release often, and if you don't like it, look at Google. > > > > wtf does that mean? > > "Design and build software, even operating systems, to be tried early, > ideally within weeks. Don't hesitate to throw away the clumsy parts and > rebuild them." > > -- The Bell System Technical Journal. Bell Laboratories. M. D. McIlroy, > E. N. Pinson, and B. A. Tague. "Unix Time-Sharing System Forward" 1978. > 57 (6, part 2). p. 1902. > > The google reference can be seen in recent interviews with Rob and > others about how their release process works. > > I have heard of people complaining that working alone one doesn't get > much feedback... but what do I know, I'm just the buffoon of the court. > > uriel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
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* Re: [9fans] p9sk2 [not found] ` <000001c5c94e$82d49890$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> @ 2005-10-05 5:36 ` Nils O. Selåsdal 0 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Nils O. Selåsdal @ 2005-10-05 5:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Wed, 2005-10-05 at 03:45 +0200, Uriel wrote: > On Tue, Oct 04, 2005 at 08:19:21PM -0400, Russ Cox wrote: > > > Can we kill /n/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/unix/drawterm? it's outdated > > > and misleading. > > > > Outdated, yes. Misleading, no. Once dt2k is a suitable replacement, > > I will put it there. Dt2k is still a work in progress and the old > > drawterm still works. > As others have noted dt2k seems to work fine, I just checked it, not The last I tried of it (3-4 months ago), it worked fine until it segfaults ... usually within an hour. -- Nils O. Selåsdal <NOS@Utel.no> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] p9sk2 2005-10-04 23:21 ` Skip Tavakkolian 2005-10-04 23:26 ` Russ Cox 2005-10-04 23:35 ` Russ Cox @ 2005-10-04 23:36 ` David Leimbach 2 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: David Leimbach @ 2005-10-04 23:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On 10/4/05, Skip Tavakkolian <9nut@9netics.com> wrote: > > As it always is, progress is slow. Skip and Brucee have added Windows > > support to dt2k, and Andrey has been maintaining it. I use it for days > > at a time without problems on Linux except that snarf doesn't work. > > Others have reported problems. At the moment, it's really far down > > on my to do list, and no one else is stepping up to the plate. > > i think richard added the ssl to dt2k. > > also, brucee -- as part of 9netics work -- added aan support to a dt2k > derivative. if geoff, andrey (or russ) want to do it, it would be a > clean operation to take the changes and patch dt2k. there is a new > aanfs and cpu.c that goes with it. it is experimental. it is not fully tested. > aan support is, if memory serves, the connection stability stuff. If so, that's really super-excellent. Awesome! Happy happy joy joy! [cutting back on my caffeine intake now...] Dave ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] p9sk2 2005-10-04 21:44 ` Russ Cox ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2005-10-04 23:21 ` Skip Tavakkolian @ 2005-10-05 7:20 ` Richard Miller 2005-10-05 7:44 ` Skip Tavakkolian [not found] ` <67a09890a59797f569b0456bb3edcc86@hamnavoe.com> 4 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread From: Richard Miller @ 2005-10-05 7:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rsc, 9fans > Others have reported problems. At the moment, it's really far down > on my to do list, and no one else is stepping up to the plate. Where are the problems being reported to? It may be more likely for others to "step up" if they know that something needs doing (and that nobody else is already working on it). -- Richard ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] p9sk2 2005-10-05 7:20 ` Richard Miller @ 2005-10-05 7:44 ` Skip Tavakkolian 0 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Skip Tavakkolian @ 2005-10-05 7:44 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > Where are the problems being reported to? 9trouble, i would think. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
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* Re: [9fans] p9sk2 [not found] ` <67a09890a59797f569b0456bb3edcc86@hamnavoe.com> @ 2005-10-05 10:46 ` Russ Cox 0 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread From: Russ Cox @ 2005-10-05 10:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Richard Miller; +Cc: 9fans > > Others have reported problems. At the moment, it's really far down > > on my to do list, and no one else is stepping up to the plate. > > Where are the problems being reported to? It may be more likely for > others to "step up" if they know that something needs doing (and that > nobody else is already working on it). It's not like the bug reports are just flowing in: a crash here, a crash there. Mostly it was crashing while I used it, so I wasn't actively soliciting crashes from others. I used to get "unexpected async message" from X every once in a while and then it would hang. Perhaps the latest version (from Andrey via the 9netics crowd) has fixed these problems. Andrey and I decided to stay in sync via CVS instead of passing tar balls around and fix these problems, but since we started on that I haven't seen it crash once. It does hang occasionally, but it comes back, so that's probably the network. I still don't have great confidence that it's okay. As much as Uriel wants to malign the old drawterm, I believe it was more solid than this. Russ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2005-10-24 14:17 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 30+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2005-10-04 21:04 [9fans] p9sk2 Uriel 2005-10-04 21:16 ` Axel Belinfante 2005-10-04 21:30 ` Axel Belinfante 2005-10-04 21:38 ` Uriel 2005-10-04 21:48 ` Skip Tavakkolian 2005-10-04 21:44 ` Russ Cox 2005-10-04 21:52 ` andrey mirtchovski 2005-10-04 22:05 ` geoff 2005-10-04 22:28 ` andrey mirtchovski 2005-10-04 22:38 ` Skip Tavakkolian 2005-10-04 22:41 ` Russ Cox 2005-10-04 22:42 ` andrey mirtchovski 2005-10-04 22:10 ` Uriel 2005-10-04 23:21 ` Skip Tavakkolian 2005-10-04 23:26 ` Russ Cox 2005-10-04 23:35 ` Russ Cox 2005-10-05 0:11 ` Uriel 2005-10-05 0:19 ` Russ Cox 2005-10-05 0:22 ` Skip Tavakkolian 2005-10-05 1:27 ` Uriel 2005-10-05 1:50 ` Russ Cox 2005-10-05 2:13 ` jmk 2005-10-05 4:56 ` LiteStar numnums 2005-10-24 13:52 ` Uriel 2005-10-24 14:17 ` jmk [not found] ` <000001c5c94e$82d49890$14aaa8c0@utelsystems.local> 2005-10-05 5:36 ` Nils O. Selåsdal 2005-10-04 23:36 ` David Leimbach 2005-10-05 7:20 ` Richard Miller 2005-10-05 7:44 ` Skip Tavakkolian [not found] ` <67a09890a59797f569b0456bb3edcc86@hamnavoe.com> 2005-10-05 10:46 ` Russ Cox
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