[9fans] Newbie Questions

[9fans] Newbie Questions

[chutsu]

Hi
Pretty new to this plan 9 OS...have absolutely no experience. Here are
my questions

1. How do you port unix software to Plan 9, or is that not possible?
2. Is the development of this system is still going? Drivers being
updated...etc.etc...or is the project dead..and is left for the
community to do it for them selves like the BeOS
3. Is there a fully Featured web broswer - eg firefox?? available...or
is it just really basic text browsers
4. Can this system play media files...like .avi...divx....
5. There is gcc for plan 9 right??

I know all these questions seem a bit crazy for an ancient system
thats hasn't really caught on with the general whole computer
world....and its only being used as an OS research platform for the
computer science researchers....but it would be cool to have such an
unknown system to work...it just makes you kinda special..everyone
will be using linux bsd, windows or mac...and I'll be like....I'm a
plan 9 user...lol....bet I'll get stared at! most of the will say
"WHAT THE HECK IS PLAN 9"

Chris

Re: [9fans] Newbie Questions

[Gabriel Diaz]

hello

>
> 1. How do you port unix software to Plan 9, or is that not possible?

two ways, modifying the source app to be plan9 compatible, or use ape.

> 2. Is the development of this system is still going? Drivers being
> updated...etc.etc...or is the project dead..and is left for the
> community to do it for them selves like the BeOS

there is development going on by the community, some get paid to work
directly on plan9, others not.

> 3. Is there a fully Featured web broswer - eg firefox?? available...or
> is it just really basic text browsers

no

> 4. Can this system play media files...like .avi...divx....

there are attempts to build xvid and ffmpeg, i saw xvid working

> 5. There is gcc for plan 9 right??
>

Plan9 already have great compilers, so leave gcc in lunix better. (and
if you can)

> I know all these questions seem a bit crazy for an ancient system
> thats hasn't really caught on with the general whole computer
> world....and its only being used as an OS research platform for the
> computer science researchers....but it would be cool to have such an
> unknown system to work...it just makes you kinda special..everyone
> will be using linux bsd, windows or mac...and I'll be like....I'm a
> plan 9 user...lol....bet I'll get stared at! most of the will say
> "WHAT THE HECK IS PLAN 9"
>

it's a reason like any other, but you will end in nothing following that path.

gabi

Re: [9fans] Newbie Questions

[erik quanstrom]

> I know all these questions seem a bit crazy for an ancient system
> thats hasn't really caught on with the general whole computer
> world....and its only being used as an OS research platform for the
> computer science researchers....but it would be cool to have such an
> unknown system to work.

it's interesting that you call plan 9 an ancient system.  what are you
comparing it to?  unix is almost twenty years older than plan 9.
i'm not sure why age is a metric for evaluating operating systems.

plan 9 is not just a research operating system; products based on it
ship every day.

- erik

Re: [9fans] Newbie Questions

[Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente]

Hello!

Very respectfully, I'd suggest you to read all the documentation
available in the wiki. Your questions are fine, but they are already
answered in the plan 9 wiki (With much more depth).

Plan 9 actually runs on one of the most powerful computers in the
world. Ancient? Never.

Plan 9 is a misunderstood progressist.

Please Chris, be respectful with this project.

PD: I understand that at least you have googled your questions or you
have looked into the wikipedia.... Well... In case you didn't find the
Plan 9 wiki address, it is on http://9fans.net
PPD: You can also read a copy of this mail-list messages on
groups.google.com/group/comp.os.plan9

On 6/1/07, erik quanstrom <quanstro@coraid.com> wrote:
> > I know all these questions seem a bit crazy for an ancient system
> > thats hasn't really caught on with the general whole computer
> > world....and its only being used as an OS research platform for the
> > computer science researchers....but it would be cool to have such an
> > unknown system to work.
>
> it's interesting that you call plan 9 an ancient system.  what are you
> comparing it to?  unix is almost twenty years older than plan 9.
> i'm not sure why age is a metric for evaluating operating systems.
>
> plan 9 is not just a research operating system; products based on it
> ship every day.
>
> - erik
>

Re: [9fans] Newbie Questions

[Laurent Malvert]

On 6/1/07, Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente <lorenzobivens@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello!
>
> Very respectfully, I'd suggest you to read all the documentation
> available in the wiki. Your questions are fine, but they are already
> answered in the plan 9 wiki (With much more depth).
>
> [...]
>
> Please Chris, be respectful with this project.
>
> PD: I understand that at least you have googled your questions or you
> have looked into the wikipedia.... Well... In case you didn't find the
> Plan 9 wiki address, it is on http://9fans.net

for his defense... a wiki without any search engine feature, that's
quite a pain to use when you are looking for something.

Plan 9's is quite clear, simple and straightforward to read and
process, but it still would be nice to be able to look for a
particular topic / question.

--
Laurent Malvert [laurent.malvert@gmail.com]

Re: [9fans] Newbie Questions

[Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente]

> for his defense... a wiki without any search engine feature, that's
> quite a pain to use when you are looking for something.

Yes, but there is a good list of articles... It works like an index.
Books, that usually don't have a search engine embedded, work quite
good with indexes.
(And that doesn't intend any hostillity, I mean an index is easy to use)

But... It would be very good to improve the wiki experience with a
search engine...

I am gonna put that idea on the queue..fifo!!! :D

Cheers!!

Re: [9fans] Newbie Questions

[andrey mirtchovski]

i find google to be a very good search engine for the wiki:

http://www.google.com/search?q=plan9%20site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fplan9.bell-labs.com%2Fwiki%2Fplan9%2F

Re: [9fans] Newbie Questions

[Laurent Malvert]

On 6/1/07, andrey mirtchovski <mirtchovski@gmail.com> wrote:
> i find google to be a very good search engine for the wiki:

sure, except that you cannot be sure that google indexed all the pages
you want, whereas with your own engine you can control that
completely.

But yes, Google serves its purpose well and I use it for local site
searching once in a while... when I don't find what I want with the
site's own search feature.
It's a great 'general' tool, as a safeguard.

--
Laurent Malvert [laurent.malvert@gmail.com]

Re: [9fans] Newbie Questions

[Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente]

And as far as I know, it can be embedded on any website...

On 6/1/07, Laurent Malvert <laurent.malvert@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 6/1/07, andrey mirtchovski <mirtchovski@gmail.com> wrote:
> > i find google to be a very good search engine for the wiki:
>
> sure, except that you cannot be sure that google indexed all the pages
> you want, whereas with your own engine you can control that
> completely.
>
> But yes, Google serves its purpose well and I use it for local site
> searching once in a while... when I don't find what I want with the
> site's own search feature.
> It's a great 'general' tool, as a safeguard.
>
> --
> Laurent Malvert [laurent.malvert@gmail.com]
>

Re: [9fans] Newbie Questions

[Laurent Malvert]

On 6/1/07, Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente <lorenzobivens@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 6/1/07, Laurent Malvert <laurent.malvert@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 6/1/07, andrey mirtchovski <mirtchovski@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > i find google to be a very good search engine for the wiki:
> >
> > sure, except that you cannot be sure that google indexed all the pages
> > you want, whereas with your own engine you can control that
> > completely.
> >
> > But yes, Google serves its purpose well and I use it for local site
> > searching once in a while... when I don't find what I want with the
> > site's own search feature.
> > It's a great 'general' tool, as a safeguard.
> >
>
> And as far as I know, it can be embedded on any website...

And ? I don't see the relation ?

Yes we could add the embedded google searchbar, it would still use the
same google site: feature.

I am talking about the way the pages are being indexed.
You can tell the google robot to skip some pages (like kris maglione
suggests for the diffs) or to not index files contained in a given
folder, for instance.
But you cannot do the opposite: force it to index specific pages of a website.

That's the point I was talking about: your own embedded search engine
indexes what you tell him to.


--
Laurent Malvert [laurent.malvert@gmail.com]
{EPITECH.} - EuroPean Institute of TECHnology

[9fans] Re: Newbie Questions

[chutsu]

actually in relation to what you guys are saying...have you heard of
"Mylivesearch.com", its a development team in Aussie that claims they
have a better searching algorithm than google. Their argument is that
their search engine searches through the web simutanously(hence LIVE),
so instead of indexing all the pages like google does.

The search engine is still under development..but its nearly
done....mid to end of June?? I think...would be quite interesting to
see how it all turns out. I think I'm becomming a bit too relient to
the whole google thing...and I'm not too sure thats good for me!
Followup-To:
Distribution:
Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK
Keywords:
Cc:


--
Dennis Davis, BUCS, University of Bath, Bath, BA2 7AY, UK
D.H.Davis@bath.ac.uk

Re: [9fans] Re: Newbie Questions

[W B Hacker]

chutsu@gmail.com wrote:
> actually in relation to what you guys are saying...have you heard of
> "Mylivesearch.com", its a development team in Aussie that claims they
> have a better searching algorithm than google. Their argument is that
> their search engine searches through the web simutanously(hence LIVE),
> so instead of indexing all the pages like google does.
>
> The search engine is still under development..but its nearly
> done....mid to end of June?? I think...would be quite interesting to
> see how it all turns out. I think I'm becomming a bit too relient to
> the whole google thing...and I'm not too sure thats good for me!
> Followup-To:
> Distribution:
> Organization: University of Bath Computing Services, UK
> Keywords:
> Cc:
>
>

'Better' search engines have a great deal to do with whom is seeking what, and
from whence.

It isn't hard to benchmark one - or several - 'better' searches.

Where Google shines vs, for example, what AltaVista used to be, or 'Dialog' even
earlier, is getting it 'good enough' often enough, cheap enough, and fast enough ..

AND ...

...doing it for such a massive sustained and peak global request load.

That last part - plus several years of head-start on the infrastructure to
support it - is the hardest to match, let alone beat.

So we may be far more 'stuck with' Google than anyone is with Winwoes...

Not to say we might not want to move them off our 'first choice' preference
settings.  Or try to live without them altogether, if only 'coz 'Big
Brother'ism' is already bad enough without their making it worse.


Bill

Re: [9fans] Newbie Questions

[Kris Maglione]

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On Fri, Jun 01, 2007 at 09:46:02AM -0600, andrey mirtchovski wrote:
> i find google to be a very good search engine for the wiki:

I agree, Google is a good search engine for nearly any site. I usually 
use it in preference to the provided search engines. I have a gripe 
about the Plan 9 wiki on Google, though: It often turns up diff and 
history pages. They should have meta tags in the header to preven it:

<meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow">

-- 
Kris Maglione

Real programmers drink too much coffee so that they will
always seem tense and overworked.

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Re: [9fans] Newbie questions

[Steve Simon]

> I am trying to make sure I understand the distributed nature of Plan
> 9.  There is no architecture restrictions for CPU servers, file
> servers and terminals correct. I mean that they don't have to have the
> same architecture, i.e. all x86s. I can mix and match the machines in
> anyway I see fit.

Yep. To ensure this I beleive there are still some Alphas around
where plan9 is used to "keep the code honest" (i.e. to prevent
x86-isms creaping in).

> Also, to port Plan 9 to a new system, the main thing that needs to be
> done is to create a compiler for that architecture. There is little
> system dependent code.

yes to this too.

The processor dependent code is mostly wrapped up in libmach
http://plan9.bell-labs.com/magic/man2html/2/mach and a 
thousand odd lines in the kernel startup.

getting your new kernel into RAM and device drivers for your
new platform may cause more headaches.

-Steve

[9fans] Re: Newbie questions

[Randall Bohn]

On Dec 7, 7:30 am, fors...@vitanuova.com (C H Forsyth) wrote:
> >Yep. To ensure this I beleive there are still some Alphas around
> >where plan9 is used to "keep the code honest" (i.e. to prevent
> >x86-isms creaping in).
>
> ARM and PowerPC are commonly used, including small embedded things
> and several quite big machines.

Would there be an ARM port that works with Qemu? I'd like to try plan9
on a non-x86 cpu.