From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: <48283B59.4080709@fh-lausitz.de> Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 14:43:05 +0200 From: bblochl User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (X11/20080226) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> References: <9f9538eb2b7dc1838abecc950fc5225a@quanstro.net> <48276207.2090909@fh-lausitz.de> <20080511231113.GA941@shodan.homeunix.net> <4827F7E4.8080105@fh-lausitz.de> <20080512110956.GA937@shodan.homeunix.net> In-Reply-To: <20080512110956.GA937@shodan.homeunix.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [9fans] bootsetup problem Topicbox-Message-UUID: a51414ce-ead3-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 Martin Neubauer schrieb: > I started out with a small installation on a spare partition of a laptop to > get the hang of the system. Later I set up a standalone file server I can > boot a terminal from (usually said laptop.) This can be regarded as the > normal mode of operation. The installation never gave me trouble in either > case. > "My" trouble just begins at the task "Locate and mount the distribution archive" or to be correct at the prompt for the "distribution disk". Before that point everything is running "flush". > Using /dev/sdD0/data worked for me. Did you actually try it? > One must decide between the prompt "mountdisk", where the input "/dev/sdD0/data" is correct and the prompt "distribution disk" that follows up, where the input "/dev/sdD0/data" will never be accepted (at least in my configuration). I tried that many times for hours over hours with many different test assemblies, bacause I blindly trusted the "Installation Instructions". Well, I have explained in detail that I did more than one trials to make shure that this is reproducible. Let me repeat that the only successful and by the system accepted input (in my case) is simply "/". May be that there is a difference between installing on a separate partition and the one I did on a complete Harddrive. I really do not understand what is wrong and I cannot fix the source of "my" problem. (I use an old acer travelmate 220 with a Mobile Intel Celeron 1.33 GHz with a 20 GB harddisk - I forgot the manufacturer in the installation process it will be printed on the screen. And as a historical curiosity it really has a floppy drive!) Not to forget that the input to "distribution disk" did not work the first time at all and always needs a second run (in my case!). May be the problem I described here is very unique for my case of a stand alone installation of plan 9. If you do not believe me give me advices for test assemblies and experiments if you plan to fix the source of the problem. It is not a problem to install plan 9 again, because in the meantime after hours I can do that blindly. > All that is known to the system at that point is that there is a drive sdD0 > with a boot image you are using to start the system. > I agree that this is the only thing the system knows at that state of installation, but that is very many. If I trust the "Installation Instructions" ( I have not tried) the installer assumes that the CD-Drive is on the second IDE master and also assumes that this is the boot device. (That usually is the case by default settings of todays Bios.) In any other case (so the "Installation Ins'tructions") you will see the following error: Unknown boot device: sdD0!cdboot!9pcflop.gz Boot device: fd0 boot from: Than there is given a recipe for the case the CD is not the second IDE master...... And than there is given more text: If you find yourself at a "boot from:" prompt or a "root is from:" prompt, it is likely that the bootstrap program has not detected your floppy drive. See installation Troubleshooting (a link). I repeat this in this extension to point out explicitely that in any case the system knows where it is booting from! It is very, very likely that that device is the distribution disk with the archive as well. > The distribution media isn't already mounted. > That is absolutely true. But as I (or say the "Installation Instructions") explained that the system knows from where it was booted (see above) it can mount that drive automatically by a simple script. That is what I have in mind. (In the case your archive is on another device you may tell this the system by an option.) Just now there is made a rule aout of an exception. > You could also start the installer from a boot floppy. In that case you have > to provide some access to the distribution. (And to the system booting from > cd looks essentially the same as booting from floppy.) You also might want > to reuse a cd for booting and get the current distribution by other means. > (Blank cd-r's are damn cheap nowadays, though.) > > As I (or say "Installation Instructions") explained above, that the system always know the device it is booted from! Booting from floppy cannot happen "incognito", even if the Bios has the floppy set as a boot device. I would say that getting the archive from another place is an exeption that must be made possible by an option. The rule is the archive on the boot device . (May be I am wrong.) >> 2. Why does the install process offer an XGA monitor as default? VESA is >> save with nearly all hardware nowadays. VESA as adefault would move away >> another banana skin of the installation process for non-professionals, >> especially as VESA is not offered to the user so one must know that >> possibility. (And it is not described in the "Installation Manual".) So >> I think VESA should be default with an offer of XGA as an option. >> > > That's partially a historic development as I think the vesa driver is a > fairly late addition. Also if I recall correctly, it will turn off all > hardware acceleration for the graphics. (I'm not sure about the details as I > didn't use it.) > > A zitat from Wikipedia: The Video Electronics Standards Association (VESA) is an international body, founded in the late 1980s by NEC Home Electronics and eight other video display adapter manufacturers. The initial goal was to produce a standard for 800x600 SVGA resolution video displays. Since then VESA has issued a number of standards, mostly relating to the function of video peripherals in IBM PC compatible computers. (Remark: Please see also the Criticisms in the wikipedia original. ) So one can say that VESA is not an exotic thing, but a well proven and widely accepted standart. XGA, the Extended Graphics Array, is introduced in 1990 by IBM. (So it is more or less the standard of a company, the market did not follow.) As it is sayd that plan 9 was developed between the mid-1980s and 2002, there is not such a large time gap between plan 9 and the VESA standard. (But I can live without as well, I know to type VESA at the proper place. That was only an improvement suggestion, as well as the other recommendations. ) >> 3. The task "formatventi" and the task "copydist" will not be prompted >> as described in the "Installation Manual" but run automatically and that >> is a good idea. But the point is that the description is wrong and >> confusing. (In the case of "formatventi" certainly that will only happen >> if you chose fossli+venti at the prompt "configfs" and copydist will >> certainly only run if the process described above was successful.) >> > > That's somewhat strange. The last time I installed a system the prompt was > there in both cases. (As they should. The opportunity to revisit previous > steps at any stage is a big win.) Are you sure the distribution is actually > copied? > > Martin I used the Fourth Edition of Plan 9. Concerning to the release notes that is: "Plan 9 From Bell Labs, Fourth Release April, 2002, updated June, 2003". The task "formatventi" and the task "copydist" will not be prompted and do not need any user action. But they will be logged on the screen (when automatically done). The "Installation Instructions" gives as a time stamp: "Last modified Tue Sep 11 19:44:04 EDT 2007". May be there has something changed that was not dedected by the updater of the document. I cannot and will not insist on any execution of my improvement suggestion, especially as a setup on a complete harddisk is very seldom done, but I hope that my mails may help other new coming plan 9 fans. Regards Bernhard PS: Is there any extensive description to compile the kernel?