From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: north_ Message-ID: <48effcda.0112022010.d4a2c9f@posting.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: Subject: Re: [9fans] design issues in operating systems Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:10:35 +0000 Topicbox-Message-UUID: 2e486330-eaca-11e9-9e20-41e7f4b1d025 Ok, normally I do not take the time to write responses regarding issues like these. However, I believe Linus is a bit misguided and I would like to quickly postulate why. This isn't just a Linux problem. Its a lifestyle problem. You will see why I believe so in just one second or so ;) > --- bla bla bla snip --- > If you want to see a system that was more thoroughly _designed_, you > should probably point not to Dennis and Ken, but to systems like L4 and > Plan-9, and people like Jochen Liedtk and Rob Pike. > > And notice how they aren't all that popular or well known? "Design" is > like a religion - too much of it makes you inflexibly and unpopular. *G*. Design is in actuality nothing more than a personal concept. Design itself is a facade. Especially when you believe design is a laid out perfected ideal that you have generated previous to an action. Action itself is a flowing movement. It is not bound by time since action can never be initiated at an exact time and can never be terminated at one other precise moment in time. We only have approximations. Thus, it can never be 100% prepared for. As you move the world around you moves. The universe moves. We are constantly adjusting our theories and reasoning based on new evidence and new ideas. This is the same with both Linux and Plan 9. Things evolve over time in their own way. Design in this case is just few people sharing mostly private ideas as opposed to a global conglomeration of minds constructing solutions to globally perceived problems. The latter gets quite sloppy as we have all seen with the constant volatile state in which the Linux kernel exists. Regarding flexibility? Who gives you a better develop- ment system? Linux or Plan 9? If you have read anything about Plan 9's development scheme or used it what-so-ever you will immediately see important advances in debugging with imported namespaces cross-platform, a ready-to-write cross compilation suite over many platforms and the list just goes on. Bravo! As for the _lifestyle_ choice? This comes down to one exact statement: The largest group in any society will always choose the shortest path to its goal. The easiest and seemingly most 'robust' road. This is why Linux is currently so popular and Plan9 is not. A Linux user is more likely to install with aptget and the like. Bah! Give me source! Give me challenge! Give me ideas and theory and a fresh way at looking at our life! For people who crave knowledge and really want to understand our world there will always be smart projects like Plan 9. If you ever looked at an operating system, a woman, a man, a house, a goal .. and you thought to yourself "That is beyond me.." ask yourself "Is it really that I am not capable of this or is it that I believe I am not." Society changes you. You change society. Its a lifestyle choice. We make it every day. Decide. north_