Re: [9fans] Scanners

Re: [9fans] Scanners

[erik quanstrom]

> Has anyone given thought/attempted to getting newer scanners to work
> on Plan 9? Perhaps the SANE library could be used as a base for
> something saner (if you'll forgive the pun).

i thought that was irony.  :-)

- erik

Re: [9fans] Scanners

[Peter A. Cejchan]

nevertheless, nobody has a working scanner on plan9 ??
++pac

Re: [9fans] Scanners

[Andreas Zell]

On 25 Nov., 10:50, tyap...@gmail.com (Peter A. Cejchan) wrote:
> nevertheless, nobody has a working scanner on plan9 ??
> ++pac

We have working scanner.

www.imageaccess.de

You can use the Wt25,WT36,Wt42/48 and WT36DS Scanner.

Scan via Touchscreen and upload the images to a Plan9 cifs
networkshare.

AZ.

Re: [9fans] Scanners

[Peter A. Cejchan]

if i understand it right, your scanner is NOT connected directly to a
plan9 native box...

++pac

Re: [9fans] Scanners

[Peter A. Cejchan]

On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Peter A. Cejchan <tyapca7@gmail.com> wrote:
> if i understand it right, your scanner is NOT connected directly to a
> plan9 native box...
>
> ++pac
>

this is from your web:
Requirement - Software:  	Java Sun Microsystems; Operating System
Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows Vista

i got rid from those fsck-ing windoze os several yrs ago, now i want
to free last of my boxes still running linux...uggh
++pac

Re: [9fans] Scanners

[Jorden Mauro]

On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 11:08 PM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
>> Has anyone given thought/attempted to getting newer scanners to work
>> on Plan 9? Perhaps the SANE library could be used as a base for
>> something saner (if you'll forgive the pun).
>
> i thought that was irony.  :-)
>
> - erik
>
>

Here's your irony:

P9 needs more APIs with TLAs and FLAs to make it more marketable.

Re: [9fans] Scanners

[Andreas Zell]

On 25 Nov., 13:34, tyap...@gmail.com (Peter A. Cejchan) wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Peter A. Cejchan <tyap...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > if i understand it right, your scanner is NOT connected directly to a
> > plan9 native box...
>
> > ++pac
>
> this is from your web:
> Requirement - Software:         Java Sun Microsystems; Operating System
> Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows Vista
>
> i got rid from those fsck-ing windoze os several yrs ago, now i want
> to free last of my boxes still running linux...uggh
> ++pac

The scanner ist connect via 1G ethernet.
On the Touchscreen  is an Option "Scan to network".
The scanner scans direct to a cifs share (aquarella on plan9).
No need for spezial software except a Cifs Server.
The scanner use smbclient.


AZ.

Re: [9fans] Scanners

[Jorden Mauro]

On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 9:28 AM, Andreas Zell <zell@imageaccess.de> wrote:
> On 25 Nov., 13:34, tyap...@gmail.com (Peter A. Cejchan) wrote:
>> On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Peter A. Cejchan <tyap...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > if i understand it right, your scanner is NOT connected directly to a
>> > plan9 native box...
>>
>> > ++pac
>>
>> this is from your web:
>> Requirement - Software:         Java Sun Microsystems; Operating System
>> Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows Vista
>>
>> i got rid from those fsck-ing windoze os several yrs ago, now i want
>> to free last of my boxes still running linux...uggh
>> ++pac
>
> The scanner ist connect via 1G ethernet.
> On the Touchscreen  is an Option "Scan to network".
> The scanner scans direct to a cifs share (aquarella on plan9).
> No need for spezial software except a Cifs Server.
> The scanner use smbclient.
>
>
> AZ.
>
>

Not a fun solution if you've already bought a scanner...

Re: [9fans] Scanners

[hiro]

I heard that you can free linux with a GNU.

On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Peter A. Cejchan <tyapca7@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Peter A. Cejchan <tyapca7@gmail.com> wrote:
>> if i understand it right, your scanner is NOT connected directly to a
>> plan9 native box...
>>
>> ++pac
>>
>
> this is from your web:
> Requirement - Software:         Java Sun Microsystems; Operating System
> Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows Vista
>
> i got rid from those fsck-ing windoze os several yrs ago, now i want
> to free last of my boxes still running linux...uggh
> ++pac
>
>

Re: [9fans] Scanners

[hiro]

Well, heroin is a lot of fun.

On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 3:33 PM, Jorden Mauro <jrm8005@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 9:28 AM, Andreas Zell <zell@imageaccess.de> wrote:
>> On 25 Nov., 13:34, tyap...@gmail.com (Peter A. Cejchan) wrote:
>>> On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Peter A. Cejchan <tyap...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > if i understand it right, your scanner is NOT connected directly to a
>>> > plan9 native box...
>>>
>>> > ++pac
>>>
>>> this is from your web:
>>> Requirement - Software:         Java Sun Microsystems; Operating System
>>> Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows Vista
>>>
>>> i got rid from those fsck-ing windoze os several yrs ago, now i want
>>> to free last of my boxes still running linux...uggh
>>> ++pac
>>
>> The scanner ist connect via 1G ethernet.
>> On the Touchscreen  is an Option "Scan to network".
>> The scanner scans direct to a cifs share (aquarella on plan9).
>> No need for spezial software except a Cifs Server.
>> The scanner use smbclient.
>>
>>
>> AZ.
>>
>>
>
> Not a fun solution if you've already bought a scanner...
>
>

Re: [9fans] Scanners

[Peter A. Cejchan]

> No need for spezial software except a Cifs Server.
> The scanner use smbclient.



i repeat: i do not wish to have anything to do with windoze os, nor
with smb and other bullshit. sorry for such a rude wording... windoze
annoyed me along with other proprietary sw 20+ yrs.... i do share all
my outcome publicly... yes, i'm not a millionaire (and my outcome is
humble, YES), but several people already acknowledged my work... BTW,
if you read up to this point, i would design a book scanner in an
other way, especially, no parallel (to scanning lamp) covering glass,
but, rather, a roof-like glass construction *( to avoid book damage)
and a mirror + sw to convert it to rectangular page.... just my two
cents ;-)

sry if it's offending, but i'd like to see an open specification for
any , be it desktop, scanner. BTW, i consider supporting ONLY windoze
a violation of a free business contest law, IMHO....

sry 1 more, i just wted 2 know anybody uses a scnr on NATIVE p9....

++pac

Re: [9fans] Scanners

[Peter A. Cejchan]

i dont understand you.... sry...

Re: [9fans] Scanners

[ron minnich]

On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 6:28 AM, Andreas Zell <zell@imageaccess.de> wrote:

> The scanner ist connect via 1G ethernet.
> On the Touchscreen  is an Option "Scan to network".
> The scanner scans direct to a cifs share (aquarella on plan9).
> No need for spezial software except a Cifs Server.
> The scanner use smbclient.

That's neat. It makes sense too, using ethernet almost always seems a
better deal than using USB. It's so cheap to put a network stack and
ethernet into these devices, and the network stack is doubtless less
software than a USB stack ...

ron

Re: [9fans] Scanners

[Jack Norton]

Peter A. Cejchan wrote:
>> No need for spezial software except a Cifs Server.
>> The scanner use smbclient.
>
>
>
> i repeat: i do not wish to have anything to do with windoze os, nor
> with smb and other bullshit. sorry for such a rude wording... windoze
> annoyed me along with other proprietary sw 20+ yrs.... i do share all
> my outcome publicly... yes, i'm not a millionaire (and my outcome is
> humble, YES), but several people already acknowledged my work... BTW,
> if you read up to this point, i would design a book scanner in an
> other way, especially, no parallel (to scanning lamp) covering glass,
> but, rather, a roof-like glass construction *( to avoid book damage)
> and a mirror + sw to convert it to rectangular page.... just my two
> cents ;-)
>
> sry if it's offending, but i'd like to see an open specification for
> any , be it desktop, scanner. BTW, i consider supporting ONLY windoze
> a violation of a free business contest law, IMHO....
>
> sry 1 more, i just wted 2 know anybody uses a scnr on NATIVE p9....
>
> ++pac
>

I checked out the image access site, and it looks like you can scan to
FTP, email (built in MTA?), along with the smb method.
I actually think thats pretty nice.
What on earth is free business contest law (FBCL I suppose)?  Does that
mean if I only make parts for Ford motor cars, and I completely ignore
GM, and also the vast league of Kit Car DIY'ers, I am evil?
I like the book scanner idea though, you should jump on that.  Much more
elegant in my opinion to the 'book open, face up' with camera's from
afar method.

-Jack

Re: [9fans] Scanners

[Brian L. Stuart]

> > The scanner ist connect via 1G ethernet.
> > On the Touchscreen  is an Option "Scan to network".
> > The scanner scans direct to a cifs share (aquarella on
> plan9).
> > No need for spezial software except a Cifs Server.
> > The scanner use smbclient.
> 
> That's neat. It makes sense too, using ethernet almost
> always seems a
> better deal than using USB. It's so cheap to put a network
> stack and
> ethernet into these devices, and the network stack is
> doubtless less
> software than a USB stack ...

I definitely agree with this part of it.  However, I would much
rather see the higher-level protocol be something that is simpler
and not tied to any commercial interests.  I don't even object
to having cifs as an option.  But when did it become popular
to say that ftp should not be an option for transferring a file?

BLS

Re: [9fans] Scanners

[John Floren]

On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 12:04 PM, Brian L. Stuart
<blstuart@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> > The scanner ist connect via 1G ethernet.
>> > On the Touchscreen  is an Option "Scan to network".
>> > The scanner scans direct to a cifs share (aquarella on
>> plan9).
>> > No need for spezial software except a Cifs Server.
>> > The scanner use smbclient.
>>
>> That's neat. It makes sense too, using ethernet almost
>> always seems a
>> better deal than using USB. It's so cheap to put a network
>> stack and
>> ethernet into these devices, and the network stack is
>> doubtless less
>> software than a USB stack ...
>
> I definitely agree with this part of it.  However, I would much
> rather see the higher-level protocol be something that is simpler
> and not tied to any commercial interests.  I don't even object
> to having cifs as an option.  But when did it become popular
> to say that ftp should not be an option for transferring a file?
>
> BLS
>
>
>

The basic little flatbed on the website can scan to FTP. I'm not sure
why the original poster chose to mention SMB and not FTP, but it's an
option.

Which is good, because I for one have never been able to get aquarela
working properly.

John
-- 
"Object-oriented design is the roman numerals of computing" -- Rob Pike

Re: [9fans] Scanners

[hiro]

I'm using a comparable system here. I have to retrieve the scans with
a web interface (but as you say, better than nothing).
Standards...

On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 6:04 PM, Brian L. Stuart <blstuart@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> > The scanner ist connect via 1G ethernet.
>> > On the Touchscreen  is an Option "Scan to network".
>> > The scanner scans direct to a cifs share (aquarella on
>> plan9).
>> > No need for spezial software except a Cifs Server.
>> > The scanner use smbclient.
>>
>> That's neat. It makes sense too, using ethernet almost
>> always seems a
>> better deal than using USB. It's so cheap to put a network
>> stack and
>> ethernet into these devices, and the network stack is
>> doubtless less
>> software than a USB stack ...
>
> I definitely agree with this part of it.  However, I would much
> rather see the higher-level protocol be something that is simpler
> and not tied to any commercial interests.  I don't even object
> to having cifs as an option.  But when did it become popular
> to say that ftp should not be an option for transferring a file?
>
> BLS
>
>
>

Re: [9fans] Scanners

[erik quanstrom]

> That's neat. It makes sense too, using ethernet almost always seems a
> better deal than using USB.

coraid agrees.  except for the "almost" part.

- erik

Re: [9fans] Scanners

[Anthony Sorace]

where's my ethernet mouse? ;-)

On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 12:20, erik quanstrom <quanstro@coraid.com> wrote:
>> That's neat. It makes sense too, using ethernet almost always seems a
>> better deal than using USB.
>
> coraid agrees.  except for the "almost" part.
>
> - erik
>
>

Re: [9fans] Scanners

[erik quanstrom]

On Wed Nov 25 12:49:12 EST 2009, anothy@gmail.com wrote:
> where's my ethernet mouse? ;-)
>

how to troll like a pro!

- erik

Re: [9fans] Scanners

[Brian L. Stuart]

> > to having cifs as an option.  But when did it become
> popular
> > to say that ftp should not be an option for
> transferring a file?
> 
> The basic little flatbed on the website can scan to FTP.
> I'm not sure
> why the original poster chose to mention SMB and not FTP,
> but it's an
> option.

DOH!  That's what I get for opening my mouth before checking
things out.

Sorry for the noise,
BLS

Re: [9fans] Scanners

[ron minnich]

On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 9:47 AM, Anthony Sorace <anothy@gmail.com> wrote:
> where's my ethernet mouse? ;-)

I thought it was called drawterm.

ron

Re: [9fans] Scanners

[W B Hacker]

Anthony Sorace wrote:
> where's my ethernet mouse? ;-)

If Plan9 can 'plumb' a remote sound card, (a questionable example long
publicized) I'm sure it can do so with a mouse.

'Questionable example', as I've never quite understood how I'd be able to hear
the output of a sound card whose physically-attached speakers where half-way
round the world (can we also 'plumb' the analog audio?) - even before the Tet
'68 offensive took away much of my hearing.

;-)

Bill


>
> On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 12:20, erik quanstrom <quanstro@coraid.com> wrote:
>>> That's neat. It makes sense too, using ethernet almost always seems a
>>> better deal than using USB.
>> coraid agrees.  except for the "almost" part.
>>
>> - erik
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [9fans] Scanners

[Charles Forsyth]

>If Plan9 can 'plumb' a remote sound card, (a questionable example long
>publicized) I'm sure it can do so with a mouse.

it isn't plumbing, but export/import, and it's useful.
i had a usable sound system on my r3000 indigo, but my PC had none.
on the pc, i imported the indigo's /dev and played sounds that way.
i could imagine uses even a continent away (alarm system imports remote
/dev and announces trouble). next door might be more useful.

Re: [9fans] Scanners

[cinap_lenrek]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 282 bytes --]

what is the sense of this discussion by the way? here are no scanner drivers
for plan9 right know. nobody seems to be working at one.

nobody cares if you dont like the solutions/hacks to the problem.

so just stop this thread and write a driver if you need one.

--
cinap

[-- Attachment #2: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 4257 bytes --]

From: "Peter A. Cejchan" <tyapca7@gmail.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Subject: Re: [9fans] Scanners
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:43:47 +0100
Message-ID: <e56a31560911250843q29ceba2aj76680554c41f3ddd@mail.gmail.com>

> No need for spezial software except a Cifs Server.
> The scanner use smbclient.



i repeat: i do not wish to have anything to do with windoze os, nor
with smb and other bullshit. sorry for such a rude wording... windoze
annoyed me along with other proprietary sw 20+ yrs.... i do share all
my outcome publicly... yes, i'm not a millionaire (and my outcome is
humble, YES), but several people already acknowledged my work... BTW,
if you read up to this point, i would design a book scanner in an
other way, especially, no parallel (to scanning lamp) covering glass,
but, rather, a roof-like glass construction *( to avoid book damage)
and a mirror + sw to convert it to rectangular page.... just my two
cents ;-)

sry if it's offending, but i'd like to see an open specification for
any , be it desktop, scanner. BTW, i consider supporting ONLY windoze
a violation of a free business contest law, IMHO....

sry 1 more, i just wted 2 know anybody uses a scnr on NATIVE p9....

++pac

Re: [9fans] Scanners

[Anthony Sorace]

 erik  wrote:
// how to troll like a pro!

see, i was paying attention!

bill wrote:
// ...a questionable example...

if you have a lab of terminals but only one or two have a working
sound card and speakers, it can make good sense. first time i saw
that was a demo for something unrelated; we were in the real demo
before we'd realized what we'd done to get there.

Re: [9fans] Scanners

[W B Hacker]

Charles Forsyth wrote:
>> If Plan9 can 'plumb' a remote sound card, (a questionable example long
>> publicized) I'm sure it can do so with a mouse.
>
> it isn't plumbing, but export/import, and it's useful.
> i had a usable sound system on my r3000 indigo, but my PC had none.
> on the pc, i imported the indigo's /dev and played sounds that way.
> i could imagine uses even a continent away (alarm system imports remote
> /dev and announces trouble). next door might be more useful.
>
>

Welll - in the same room, it would seem 'sneakernet' would do well enough. Point
of fact, I use three kdb,vid,mouse and ... a swivel chair... less confusing than
sharing/switching among three disparate OS'en.

;-)

And I've actually considered remote audio I/O as part of a system for monitoring
a house that sits empty for months at a time, and responding to the doorbell ..
intrusion, et al ... but.. 'edge cases', both, if ever were. Easy enough to do
without Plan9. 'Too easy' to be fair.

'export/import' applied to remote resources - especially 'scarce' or expensive
ones (sound cards no longer are..) that could *send back* the results might make
a better present-day example.

If we could identify a few...

Couple of thoughts:

- hardware crypto devices  (cheap and cheerful in recent VIA CPU, seldom seen
otherwise)

- fast, specialty (expensive) graphics processing engines for storage to file,
or streaming-back not (necessarily) remote display. Ray tracing comes to mind...

- a 'ration' - free or purchased - of grid or supercomputing resources? (several
experts here - I'm not among them)

In any case, given that audio codecs are near-as-dammit ubiquitous on commodity,
and even 'server grade' and 'embedded' system boards these many years, I think a
better example than sharing a Soundblaster-equivalent is overdue.

I'm well aware that 'marketing' Plan9 is not really on anyone's radar here ..
but there could be a bit more done to convey the availability and value to the
like-minded potential fellow-travelers [1]. One benefit might include more
current device driver import/devel..

JM2CW

Bill

[1] FWIW - the 'Blue Gene' Plan9 work deserves better publicity. If/as/when one
hears that a certain 'hobby' alleged-OS is being run on such expensive kit, one
tends to question why it was even built...

Re: [9fans] Scanners

[W B Hacker]

Anthony Sorace wrote:
>  erik  wrote:
> // how to troll like a pro!
>
> see, i was paying attention!
>
> bill wrote:
> // ...a questionable example...
>
> if you have a lab of terminals but only one or two have a working
> sound card and speakers, it can make good sense.

I'm sure it did *at the time*...

But have you tried to find even an embedded nano board that has in-bridge-chip
audio codec's lately? Where 'lately' is now around ten years-plus? And
'speakers' have becoem tiny, effective - and also very cheap?

We've been chopping-off audio jacks on C3 & C7 MB for years to make quite decent
low-power 1U servers... too tall for the case otherwise.

PITA, that, but we don't use enough of 'em to order them 'unstuffed'.

> first time i saw
> that was a demo for something unrelated; we were in the real demo
> before we'd realized what we'd done to get there.
>
>

ACK .. but time marches on, and there *must* be a few 'shareable' things more
current than SB equivalents. How / why not get those examples onto the web page
as add-ons if not more germane replacements?

DISCLAIMER:

My audio gear largely sez 'Marantz' on the front panel, some dates as far back
as 1968, only the CD drive is newer than 1975, and CD aside, has SQRT-FA to do
with computers. Still sounds sweet though.

"Horses for courses"


Bill

[9fans] remote access to audio devices

[Sam Watkins]

VNC or similar "remote desktop" with sound support can be useful for things
like pair-programming over then internet, if you are working on an app or game
that uses sound.

Sam

Re: [9fans] remote access to audio devices

[W B Hacker]

Sam Watkins wrote:
> VNC or similar "remote desktop" with sound support can be useful for things
> like pair-programming over then internet, if you are working on an app or game
> that uses sound.
>
> Sam
>
>

VNC can (has been) be a butt-saver' - but pales in comparison to remote desktop
/ remote X for relative responsiveness and seamlessness.

(And we are speaking cross-platform, as Plan9 <=> Plan9 doesn't necessarily need
either..)

Bill

Re: [9fans] Scanners

[Ethan Grammatikidis]

>> If Plan9 can 'plumb' a remote sound card, (a questionable example
>> long
>> publicized) I'm sure it can do so with a mouse.
>
> it isn't plumbing, but export/import, and it's useful.
> i had a usable sound system on my r3000 indigo, but my PC had none.
> on the pc, i imported the indigo's /dev and played sounds that way.
> i could imagine uses even a continent away (alarm system imports
> remote
> /dev and announces trouble). next door might be more useful.

Another useful example is drawterm.

[9fans] 9p resource sharing [was: Scanners]

[Tim Newsham]

> it isn't plumbing, but export/import, and it's useful.
> i had a usable sound system on my r3000 indigo, but my PC had none.
> on the pc, i imported the indigo's /dev and played sounds that way.
> i could imagine uses even a continent away (alarm system imports remote
> /dev and announces trouble). next door might be more useful.

I personally would like to see a lot more in the way of remote
resource access using 9p and I'm working towards that by writing
software for windows, linux and android.  Its a slightly different
use case than typical plan9 setup: ie my terminal has some
devices and I push them to a cpu server so programs run there
can access local resources.  Instead you have resources on several
machines that you own (and who doesnt own several machines these
days, heck even my non-tech relatives do) and you import them
to use them as necessary.  I've been playing around with sound
a lot as a starting point but I am hoping to move on to other
devices soon.  In my current prototypes I can import sound devices
from (android, windows, linux oss) onto another (android, windows,
linux oss) machine and either replace the current audio subsystem
or offer the remote audio as an additional audio device.

Why should all of your machines need a dvd drive, sound card, sdcard
reader, etc.?

Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com

Re: [9fans] 9p resource sharing [was: Scanners]

[Tim Newsham]

> I personally would like to see a lot more in the way of remote
> resource access using 9p and I'm working towards that by writing
> software for windows, linux and android.  Its a slightly different
> use case than typical plan9 setup: ie my terminal has some

I meant to add here that the planB guys probably have some
experience here that would be worth hearing.

Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com

Re: [9fans] Scanners

[Enrico Weigelt]

* Anthony Sorace <anothy@gmail.com> wrote:
> where's my ethernet mouse? ;-)

Well, it already would be a good start if mice spoke 9P ;-)
(actually, that's what we're going to do on software/driver
side in the gpm-ng project)


cu
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/

 phone:  +49 36207 519931  email: weigelt@metux.de
 mobile: +49 174 7066481   icq:   210169427         skype: nekrad666
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: [9fans] 9p resource sharing [was: Scanners]

[Enrico Weigelt]

* Tim Newsham <newsham@lava.net> wrote:

Hi,

> I personally would like to see a lot more in the way of remote
> resource access using 9p and I'm working towards that by writing
> software for windows, linux and android.

actually, that's also my primary focus here. Not the OS itself,
but carry the amazing concepts to other worlds.

> I've been playing around with sound a lot as a starting point
> but I am hoping to move on to other devices soon.

Great! Do you have any (maybe usable) code yet ?


cu
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/

 phone:  +49 36207 519931  email: weigelt@metux.de
 mobile: +49 174 7066481   icq:   210169427         skype: nekrad666
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: [9fans] 9p resource sharing [was: Scanners]

[Tim Newsham]

>> I've been playing around with sound a lot as a starting point
>> but I am hoping to move on to other devices soon.
>
> Great! Do you have any (maybe usable) code yet ?

I have lots of code, but its unpublished proprietary at
this point (aside from the bits that I've released on this
mailing list).

> cu

Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com

Re: [9fans] 9p resource sharing [was: Scanners]

[Enrico Weigelt]

* Tim Newsham <newsham@lava.net> wrote:
> >>I've been playing around with sound a lot as a starting point
> >>but I am hoping to move on to other devices soon.
> >
> >Great! Do you have any (maybe usable) code yet ?
>
> I have lots of code, but its unpublished proprietary at
> this point (aside from the bits that I've released on this
> mailing list).

maybe you could put it into an git repo and publish it ?


cu
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/

 phone:  +49 36207 519931  email: weigelt@metux.de
 mobile: +49 174 7066481   icq:   210169427         skype: nekrad666
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: [9fans] Scanners

[Steve Simon]

> Which is good, because I for one have never been able to get aquarela
> working properly.

I have used it quite a few times in the past. however every so often
I do find some weird part of the SMB spec which is not implemeted. That
said it usually works well.

I am happy to look at reports of problems as I have had dealings with
the CIFS protocol in the past.

-Steve

Re: [9fans] remote access to audio devices

[Steve Simon]

> VNC can (has been) be a butt-saver' - but pales in comparison to remote desktop
> / remote X for relative responsiveness and seamlessness.

My experience of serving a Windows desktop to a plan9 terminal
is that TightVNC with the DFMirage "Mirror driver" works really well.

-Steve

Re: [9fans] remote access to audio devices

[Ethan Grammatikidis]

On 1 Dec 2009, at 8:44 pm, Steve Simon wrote:

>> VNC can (has been) be a butt-saver' - but pales in comparison to
>> remote desktop
>> / remote X for relative responsiveness and seamlessness.
>
> My experience of serving a Windows desktop to a plan9 terminal
> is that TightVNC with the DFMirage "Mirror driver" works really well.

I've had responsiveness issues when the viewing machine hasn't enough
CPU power to decode the screen data in real-time. A lot of power
seems to be needed, my PDA, a 416MHz ARM can't cope with any
compression at all, I have to limit vncviewer to copyrect and raw
encodings only. Encoding doesn't seem to need half as much CPU power.
I ran Xvnc on a headless server with a 400MHz AMD K6 with no issues
that I recall.

All that gear was using either TightVNC or the plain vnc-x.y.z.tar.gz
from RealVNC. When using Vine Server on a 466MHz Apple screen updates
are not really adequate,  while the mouse pointer lags if I use the
VNC server supplied with OS X Tiger on the same machine. x0vncserver
is a known problem server which I haven't used, IIRC it basically
works by taking screenshots continuously and sending those.

Re: [9fans] remote access to audio devices

[Patrick Kelly]

On Dec 1, 2009, at 17:28, Ethan Grammatikidis <eekee57@fastmail.fm>
wrote:

>
> On 1 Dec 2009, at 8:44 pm, Steve Simon wrote:
>
>>> VNC can (has been) be a butt-saver' - but pales in comparison to
>>> remote desktop
>>> / remote X for relative responsiveness and seamlessness.
>>
>> My experience of serving a Windows desktop to a plan9 terminal
>> is that TightVNC with the DFMirage "Mirror driver" works really well.
>
> I've had responsiveness issues when the viewing machine hasn't
> enough CPU power to decode the screen data in real-time. A lot of
> power seems to be needed, my PDA, a 416MHz ARM can't cope with any
> compression at all, I have to limit vncviewer to copyrect and raw
> encodings only. Encoding doesn't seem to need half as much CPU
> power. I ran Xvnc on a headless server with a 400MHz AMD K6 with no
> issues that I recall.

Now I don't have any expertise with VNC, but decoding anything, is
supposed to take less time than encoding it. I would check into that.
>
> All that gear was using either TightVNC or the plain vnc-
> x.y.z.tar.gz from RealVNC. When using Vine Server on a 466MHz Apple
> screen updates are not really adequate,  while the mouse pointer
> lags if I use the VNC server supplied with OS X Tiger on the same
> machine. x0vncserver is a known problem server which I haven't used,
> IIRC it basically works by taking screenshots continuously and
> sending those.
>

Re: [9fans] remote access to audio devices

[Sam Watkins]

Ethan Grammatikidis wrote:
>I've had responsiveness issues when the viewing machine hasn't  enough CPU
>power to decode the screen data in real-time. A lot of  power seems to be
>needed, my PDA, a 416MHz ARM can't cope with any  compression at all, I have
>to limit vncviewer to copyrect and raw  encodings only.

The Java tightvnc client works fine on my little eee pc, so I would think the
native client should run well enough on a toaster.  Maybe it uses floating
point and the ARM pda in question doesn't have hardware floating point.

Sam

Re: [9fans] remote access to audio devices

[Ethan Grammatikidis]

On 2 Dec 2009, at 3:00 am, Sam Watkins wrote:

> Ethan Grammatikidis wrote:
>> I've had responsiveness issues when the viewing machine hasn't
>> enough CPU
>> power to decode the screen data in real-time. A lot of  power
>> seems to be
>> needed, my PDA, a 416MHz ARM can't cope with any  compression at
>> all, I have
>> to limit vncviewer to copyrect and raw  encodings only.
>
> The Java tightvnc client works fine on my little eee pc, so I would
> think the
> native client should run well enough on a toaster.  Maybe it uses
> floating
> point and the ARM pda in question doesn't have hardware floating
> point.
>
> Sam
>


Java sometimes does turn up trumps where C code struggles on machines
which were recently considered powerful. Other examples would be web
browsing and Flash video. Now the web supports alternative style
sheets to present a simpler layout on mobile devices and Flash
supports a supports a video format which takes less work to decode -
YouTube offers it as an option. Perhaps the Java TightVNC client
declines the trickier encodings, exactly as I have to pass options to
the C client to do. By default the C TightVNC and RealVNC clients
assume "we can has cycles," which leaves me wondering quite what
situations have sufficient computing power with such measly bandwidth
as to make the 'heavy' encodings worthwhile.

Sorry for the late reply, had to ignore email to get other things in
order.

--
freedesktop.org, because unix doesn't make things harder enough.

Ethan Grammatikidis
eekee57@fastmail.fm

Re: [9fans] remote access to audio devices

[Enrico Weigelt]

* Jorden Mauro <jrm8005@gmail.com> wrote:

> I saw a paper once that described speedups
> in X11 when hooked up to the Boehm collector.

hmm, do you know how did it and if there's any code on that yet ?

cu
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/

 phone:  +49 36207 519931  email: weigelt@metux.de
 mobile: +49 174 7066481   icq:   210169427         skype: nekrad666
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: [9fans] remote access to audio devices

[Ethan Grammatikidis]

On 26 Dec 2009, at 3:39 am, Anthony Sorace wrote:

> On Dec 25, 2009, at 04:57, erik quanstrom wrote:
>
>>> Java sometimes does turn up trumps where C code struggles on
>>> machines
>>> which were recently considered powerful. Other examples would be web
>>
>> what?
>
> from the rest of his post, i gather that the claim isn't that Java
> vs. C code of equivalent
> quality has C lagging, but rather that some application written in
> Java can beat an
> application of vaguely equivalent description written in C. the VNC
> examples given
> say, basically, that the Java app performs better out of the box
> than the C app, but it
> seems to just be about picking better (for that particular case)
> defaults.
>
> i guess my question is really what this observation is intended to
> illustrate.
>
>

Yes, that would be what I meant. Thanks for writing that Anthony,
these things are all pretty clear in my head, but writing them out
clearly is quite hard work.


--

Ethan Grammatikidis
eekee57@fastmail.fm

Re: [9fans] remote access to audio devices

[Anthony Sorace]

On Dec 25, 2009, at 04:57, erik quanstrom wrote:

>> Java sometimes does turn up trumps where C code struggles on machines
>> which were recently considered powerful. Other examples would be web
>
> what?

from the rest of his post, i gather that the claim isn't that Java vs.
C code of equivalent
quality has C lagging, but rather that some application written in
Java can beat an
application of vaguely equivalent description written in C. the VNC
examples given
say, basically, that the Java app performs better out of the box than
the C app, but it
seems to just be about picking better (for that particular case)
defaults.

i guess my question is really what this observation is intended to
illustrate.

Re: [9fans] remote access to audio devices

[Jorden Mauro]

On Dec 25, 2009, at 4:57 AM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net>
wrote:

>> Java sometimes does turn up trumps where C code struggles on machines
>> which were recently considered powerful. Other examples would be web
>
> what?
>

Could be talking about GC? I saw a paper once that described speedups
in X11 when hooked up to the Boehm collector.

I'm always sceptical about these kinds of claims.

Re: [9fans] remote access to audio devices

[erik quanstrom]

> Java sometimes does turn up trumps where C code struggles on machines
> which were recently considered powerful. Other examples would be web

what?

- erik