From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from tb-mx1.topicbox.com (localhost.local [127.0.0.1]) by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D2A5494E0C9 for <9fans@9fans.net>; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 04:16:40 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from eekee57@fastmail.fm) Received: from tb-mx1.topicbox.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Authentication Milter) with ESMTP id 2D6A21905E3; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 04:16:40 -0400 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; d=topicbox.com; s=arcseal; t= 1587025000; b=oUC6PMgF/Y6abPbekhT3CZi/2qWIjTtrxQKu36eSD/QP4YNsWw BUqmY0RwuA9GHT3G6ovjhXyjaqI2L5GqPrq2ppxHzn8J2jG+QRHESrUt/moaUdD1 8vNtWns8Mer4q6a4U32cJp1E/AdoYOhWqFxv2ejgUAGyKwbokBAdZlMwekFPogNZ Kp/u30ImWIuw6Pjwrq4Tu+fzvk5OB6gEOVvQzy0BR/pZicaUqsiWOXii5WexXZNv A1bENsPxAxj+d4cQoqPc7x8tsTpZR6KCThKpwBSStqaDXGIC3JsYslktMJMNyWRE 0WbRy5W/VrZWzoWzA0I4MV/42LFw6oJNg6Sg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= topicbox.com; h=mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references :date:from:to:subject:content-type; s=arcseal; t=1587025000; bh= OqN6QYDJ9C9Nf9Fwo1D2WpvPyLFpfJKYhGSlwXf4c0w=; b=QRt7FhonurAKKHo7 Zu8Ane/AWfb8CAnM+TkgEeyZ3VmK+e9jNoLYrDEVIKH4JsBeTbAcu9pvjnaMhxNn k8ioLvudmQqFdVP1SXuU10hmYxKc7AOaHjMV6gQJRYNkbxcrD5yaj/VOezXMDIAH yORwOwxKTOOP27epqUqRn85yWoxftrwkmL/ml1Ms1cRv2QEnC1s8mnXBwKkHFeqo mC0AsTZLpc71L32tEpcNmJ1Up7iAMRsJOXLEERuTsAcVyZQWpkoak7wCBbt72rXR nQPsRRkS2nVUkRxCy4T7fDVGlO/wu0vsEl+AtgQwBlDqaG+bB4knR680Ep86jnBM vdlGGw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; tb-mx1.topicbox.com; arc=none (no signatures found); bimi=none (Domain is not BIMI enabled); dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=fastmail.fm header.i=@fastmail.fm header.b=FY3Dkhpy header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=fm2 x-bits=2048; dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=messagingengine.com header.i=@messagingengine.com header.b=Xw1nEYZ8 header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=fm2 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=fastmail.fm; iprev=pass smtp.remote-ip=64.147.123.20 (wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com); spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=eekee57@fastmail.fm smtp.helo=wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com; x-aligned-from=pass (Address match); x-ptr=pass smtp.helo=wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com policy.ptr=wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com; x-return-mx=pass header.domain=fastmail.fm policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: in1-smtp.messagingengine.com,in2-smtp.messagingengine.com); x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=fastmail.fm policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: in1-smtp.messagingengine.com,in2-smtp.messagingengine.com); x-tls=pass smtp.version=TLSv1.2 smtp.cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 smtp.bits=256/256; x-vs=clean score=-100 state=0 Authentication-Results: tb-mx1.topicbox.com; arc=none (no signatures found); bimi=none (Domain is not BIMI enabled); dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=fastmail.fm header.i=@fastmail.fm header.b=FY3Dkhpy header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=fm2 x-bits=2048; dkim=pass (2048-bit rsa key sha256) header.d=messagingengine.com header.i=@messagingengine.com header.b=Xw1nEYZ8 header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=fm2 x-bits=2048; dmarc=pass policy.published-domain-policy=none policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none (p=none,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p header.from=fastmail.fm; iprev=pass smtp.remote-ip=64.147.123.20 (wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com); spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=eekee57@fastmail.fm smtp.helo=wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com; x-aligned-from=pass (Address match); x-ptr=pass smtp.helo=wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com policy.ptr=wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com; x-return-mx=pass header.domain=fastmail.fm policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: in1-smtp.messagingengine.com,in2-smtp.messagingengine.com); x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=fastmail.fm policy.is_org=yes (MX Records found: in1-smtp.messagingengine.com,in2-smtp.messagingengine.com); x-tls=pass smtp.version=TLSv1.2 smtp.cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 smtp.bits=256/256; x-vs=clean score=-100 state=0 X-ME-VSCause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrfeehgddtvdcutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdpuffr tefokffrpgfnqfghnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnth hsucdlqddutddtmdenucfjughrpefofgggkfgjfhffhffvufgtsehttdertderredtnecu hfhrohhmpedfgfhthhgrnhcuifgrrhguvghnvghrfdcuoegvvghkvggvheejsehfrghsth hmrghilhdrfhhmqeenucfkphepieegrddugeejrdduvdefrddvtdenucevlhhushhtvghr ufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepihhnvghtpeeigedrudegjedruddvfedrvddtpdhhvg hlohepfihouhhtgedqshhmthhprdhmvghsshgrghhinhhgvghnghhinhgvrdgtohhmpdhm rghilhhfrhhomhepoegvvghkvggvheejsehfrghsthhmrghilhdrfhhmqecuuffkkgfgpe eitddtkedpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpegvvghkvggvheejsehfrghsthhmrghilhdrfhhm X-ME-VSScore: -100 X-ME-VSCategory: clean Received-SPF: pass (fastmail.fm: Sender is authorized to use 'eekee57@fastmail.fm' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism 'include:spf.messagingengine.com' matched)) receiver=tb-mx1.topicbox.com; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="eekee57@fastmail.fm"; helo=wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com; client-ip=64.147.123.20 Received: from wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tb-mx1.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS for <9fans@9fans.net>; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 04:16:40 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from eekee57@fastmail.fm) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 253DB3D6 for <9fans@9fans.net>; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 04:16:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imap35 ([10.202.2.85]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 16 Apr 2020 04:16:39 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h= mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to :subject:content-type; s=fm2; bh=OqN6QYDJ9C9Nf9Fwo1D2WpvPyLFpfJK YhGSlwXf4c0w=; b=FY3DkhpybxQT7fG7mTm1+dHwvLBN5BBeBUlm+Ib1VWoRIql 1RYXbkabDh0AyoFFZKEeF1iGxil3rnbx1qF7NN/qwS6304/G/4vYFgUSB0dFecZK GUI3BpSzmiCIFtq1+uwWCuI/n9XriWdAo2DHQPzOLs8D+HAvrUWv3FN9tnFj9S5G 62p3I0o8Z+ZDn1HOc1jwY9xTZvWw+ERck39FSSnLxAafK8D8H2wiKQ4Dt3E0LJ1V tQ/ImaR4gm0NTdaYv5LlBtddDfyHp7hP1Sme9dbo084QksldEzAoQ45WyRK3s+xf zdBy5CX+8mO9fHg4vGkyMwXVV1T857usQJRWuMg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=OqN6QY DJ9C9Nf9Fwo1D2WpvPyLFpfJKYhGSlwXf4c0w=; b=Xw1nEYZ8asZe10Ius2F6mD 0tU6cpYfsmOwali0xpFZ8hp8wi0S46VvVKQnBAQaDApwB1zi6RqhLSUa+CXNIQcJ Rt+ZgPV1vTE32+cN7sy/JVy9jzj7FPbqBy+txbT2Niviq1e08SlCGd50DCUI+k7I lQn8SSWtoae1wS9Q9fnz+tTfUnW8grtOtgBB86DjC8n5TJKr5oBWQDfyDcs2Hw/B wG9seE8e+sPZB3BOILKglDoyTCXwvDbZFfJRczYSv2fjOcyewRwc6pCLKvsrX+vH 66UR0RtrXwWZMnwZxr4235G+d83TZLFIipeL/wChnIKUWlZa83ETPEKEz7O95Sbg == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrfeehgddtudcutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenuc fjughrpefofgggkfgjfhffhffvufgtsehttdertderredtnecuhfhrohhmpedfgfhthhgr nhcuifgrrhguvghnvghrfdcuoegvvghkvggvheejsehfrghsthhmrghilhdrfhhmqeenuc evlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpegvvghkvggv heejsehfrghsthhmrghilhdrfhhm X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 8337814C01C2; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 04:16:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.1.7-1131-g3221b37-fmstable-20200415v1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <4b1bc93b-734c-4f69-871b-95d80f6ff8a2@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <46BE6B14862B1F9638745F71A8B839C4@eigenstate.org> Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 09:16:19 +0100 From: "Ethan Gardener" To: "g_patrickb via 9fans" <9fans@9fans.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Plan9 and Pine Content-Type: text/plain Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: 9c2d9318-7fba-11ea-81b9-ed1ce0efae16 this would be easy with a stylus on a resistive touchscreen and a few well-placed physical buttons. on a progressive^Winaccurate touchscreen with no buttons, what changes would be required? strictly speaking, none at all: i've used plan 9 over vnc from my tablet with various interfaces. it's not strictly necessary to modify any of the programs, but... well, selecting text is the hard part. if i remember right, i always used kurt's trick: place brackets and double-click one of them. (for large selections, it's good even on a desktop) the vnc viewers i used had decent trackpad emulation. i prefer double-tapping on a touchscreen/pad to double-clicking a mouse, it's much less damaging to my joints. i suppose some might find it triggers the drag emulation, but i usually disabled drag because touchscreens are too inaccurate for drag to be useful in plan 9. besides, i always found it much easier to deliver a solid double-tap than the fiddly nonsense necessary to start drag emulation. which vnc viewers were good? it's been a while, but one of the best ones had a bar at the bottom of the screen with buttons for right-mouse and control -- plan 9 interpretes control-b3 as b2. the rmb button modified the next tap. it was simple but quite effective. it reminds me of drawterm-ios, which if i understood right, (i never used it,) had 3 big buttons on-screen but off the drawing area. i've used a vnc viewer with onscreen buttons, but they were drawn on top of the display, leaving too little area visible. besides, i don't really want both hands on the screen. buttons which modify the next tap allow more flexibility in the way you hold the device, including the option to not hold it at all. i found that one open-source vnc viewer for android to be awful. it got better over the years, but not better enough unless miracles have happened in the last year. does anyone know what changes p9p has for apple multitouch trackpads? i recall one old-timer liking them much more than chording. for some, all this may be moot; sl likes to use ed on his phone. i forget his full argument, but part of it is that phones are hard to type on, and so were teletypes. ;) i think poor/slow network was another part; he uses ed or sam -d with ssh and drawterm -G over mobile internet. i struggle with those editors specifically, but from other stuff i can confirm that keyboard-only use can be as good as anything else on a tablet. i think i'd like samterm on mobile. ...or you could plug a mouse into your phone. ;) i actually installed a game which told me "this is no good without a real mouse." hmm... mouse cumbersome... so when are we getting a phone with a built-in trackpoint? ;) i had an idea for a tablet with 2 trackpoints; you'd use them both to pinch.