From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: <4fcfb3bbe774ec1b2999da1a01690afe@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu From: "rob pike, esq." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [9fans] Acme 3-1 Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:48:39 -0800 Topicbox-Message-UUID: 66bbce7c-eacb-11e9-9e20-41e7f4b1d025 3-1 and 2-1 are already defined: they cancel button 3 and button 2 actions. I would object to giving them another meaning. -rob From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: <000801c2d724$7ff19b10$2a8be793@gli.cas.cz> From: "peter a. cejchan" To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2D72C.E1838160" Subject: [9fans] Acme 3-1 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:05:28 +0100 Topicbox-Message-UUID: 6724c846-eacb-11e9-9e20-41e7f4b1d025 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2D72C.E1838160 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > 3-1 and 2-1 are already defined: they cancel button 3 and button 2 = actions. > I would object to giving them another meaning. > -robI was always perceiving this like a bit wasting... wouldn't e.g., = do? Just my opinion...++pac. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2D72C.E1838160 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>  3-1 and 2-1 are already =
defined: they cancel button 3 and button 2 actions.
>  I would object to giving them another meaning.

>  -rob

I was always perceiving this like a bit wasting... =
wouldn't e.g., <esc> do? Just my =
opinion...

++pac.

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C2D72C.E1838160-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Acme 3-1 From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:12:42 +0000 Topicbox-Message-UUID: 674433de-eacb-11e9-9e20-41e7f4b1d025 > 3-1 and 2-1 are already defined: they cancel button 3 and button 2 actions. > I would object to giving them another meaning. i thought 2-1 appended the most recently selected text as an argument to the executed command (and 2-3 cancels the b2 action). i use this for Edit commands (and was confused a moment ago because it doesn't work in Mail windows). as far as i can see 3-1 is the only button chord that's currently redundant (has the same meaning as 3-2): 1 select 2 execute 3 look 1-2 cut 1-3 paste 2-1 execute with args 2-3 cancel execute 3-1 cancel look 3-2 cancel look that's not an argument for giving it a new meaning! i do sometimes wish for a way to express plumbing preferences dynamically (e.g. when starting a new copy of acme and wishing that a) text files would open in the new copy and b) that other plumbing would still work). i wondered if perhaps it might make sense for an application to be able to write a "priority" message to the plumbing "send" file - plumbing messages would be then routed to that app in preference to others (a plumbing message would be sent to only one app, rather than fanning out as currently). an application could send the "priority" message when its window was raised. this might provide behaviour that seemed reasonably natural. what currently depends on the fan-out behaviour of plumbing? (mail/fs, i guess, when messages are deleted, but that's very slow, and works without plumbing anyway). From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Acme 3-1 From: paurea@plan9.escet.urjc.es In-Reply-To: <4fcfb3bbe774ec1b2999da1a01690afe@mightycheese.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:19:10 +0100 Topicbox-Message-UUID: 67485a5e-eacb-11e9-9e20-41e7f4b1d025 > 3-1 and 2-1 are already defined: they cancel button 3 and button 2 actions. > I would object to giving them another meaning. > I agree. But anyway it would be good to have a smooth way to browse directories. Maybe ctrl-3 or a property of the window like Noscroll/Scroll, maybe Browse/Nobrowse... When I browse a directory with acme I keep Deleting windows... Gorka From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Acme 3-1 From: "Russ Cox" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 07:19:47 -0500 Topicbox-Message-UUID: 674c684c-eacb-11e9-9e20-41e7f4b1d025 > what currently depends on the fan-out behaviour of plumbing? > (mail/fs, i guess, when messages are deleted, but that's very slow, > and works without plumbing anyway). faces and Mail depend on both getting announcements about new messages from upas/fs via the plumber to work correctly. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: <1aab927871041392cfbca0aa90236548@vitanuova.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Acme 3-1 From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:21:38 +0000 Topicbox-Message-UUID: 67550cea-eacb-11e9-9e20-41e7f4b1d025 > faces and Mail depend on both getting announcements > about new messages from upas/fs via the plumber to > work correctly. oh yes, i'd forgotten about that. however, mail could serve a file that informed readers of updates to the mailbox; or the plumber could recognise a "broadcast" attribute, so plumb clients could cause a message to be sent to all listeners. i don't think the broadcast nature of plumbing is what's wanted in most cases, but perhaps others disagree? From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: From: "Russ Cox" To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Acme 3-1 In-Reply-To: <1aab927871041392cfbca0aa90236548@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:38:55 -0500 Topicbox-Message-UUID: 67bd5b56-eacb-11e9-9e20-41e7f4b1d025 > i don't think the broadcast nature of plumbing is what's wanted in > most cases, but perhaps others disagree? when it happened, the consensus seemed to be (i was watching from afar) that neither broadcast nor unicast was really a perfect answer, but broadcast was easier all around. the plumber doesn't really know where messages are coming from, so you'd have to add something for that, and you'd have to add some way to change where the unicasts were going. some way to associate incoming messages with outgoing fids. it gets ugly quickly. another possibility is to round-robin unicast readers when you get the same message over and over again, you would 3-click the same thing multiple times to get it to appear in the right window. this combined with a broadcast attribute would probably work reasonably. i'm still not sure -- there are rarely times when i would actually use such functionality. i just added fn sam { if(~ $1 -*) exec /bin/sam $* @{ rfork n plumber exec /bin/sam $* } } to my profile, which nicely fixes the one time when i wish plumbing weren't there. (i use sam instances when i'm using a lot of the command language on a fixed set of files, and literally never want to plumb new files into the sams.) From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Sam To: <9fans@cse.psu.edu> Subject: Re: [9fans] Acme 3-1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:10:04 -0500 Topicbox-Message-UUID: 67d11ce0-eacb-11e9-9e20-41e7f4b1d025 In an effort to toss out other suggestions, how about keeping with 3-1, but if you want to stay in the current window, you should have previously highlighted `.'. This both keeps with the notion of button one being used to dictate arguments for an action and would permit keeping 3-1 sans input as a cancel shortcut. Moreover, it seems that on 2-1 if there's nothing highlighted for use as argument, the exec ought not occur. We have a button for exec w/o arguments and chords are precious (even if they're reclaimed to do nothing). Cheers, Sam On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 paurea@plan9.escet.urjc.es wrote: > > 3-1 and 2-1 are already defined: they cancel button 3 and button 2 actions. > > I would object to giving them another meaning. > > > > > I agree. But anyway it would be good to have a smooth way to browse directories. > Maybe ctrl-3 or a property of the window like Noscroll/Scroll, maybe Browse/Nobrowse... > When I browse a directory with acme I keep Deleting windows... > > > Gorka > From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: <8f6147a9a3134685d4ea7381155e7b62@mightycheese.com> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Acme 3-1 From: "rob pike, esq." In-Reply-To: <1aab927871041392cfbca0aa90236548@vitanuova.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:04:20 -0800 Topicbox-Message-UUID: 68002e68-eacb-11e9-9e20-41e7f4b1d025 Russ summarized pretty well how we came to have fan-out. The main issue was unicast was: who gets it? Or, to put it another way, Damn, it went to the wrong program. I was surprised to discover I liked fan-out, especially when debugging new rules. Of course, you could take a tip from plumbing's relatives in other systems and provide a UI for selecting where it goes, but 99% of plumbing's value is its automation. -rob From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Acme 3-1 From: rog@vitanuova.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:41:14 +0000 Topicbox-Message-UUID: 6849fdb8-eacb-11e9-9e20-41e7f4b1d025 > Of course, you could take a tip from plumbing's relatives in > other systems and provide a UI for selecting where it goes, > but 99% of plumbing's value is its automation. that's why i thought it might be nice to have it go automatically to the window you've most recently interacted with (or some approximation thereof). the rule could also specify fan-out or not (e.g. "plumb toall edit") then you'd have your UI for selecting whether it fans out (plumb /mnt/plumb/rules). it doesn't look hard to do in the code. i'll experiment with it. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: <58e2319ba13efc0d506b83d40bac5b9a@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp> To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu Subject: Re: [9fans] Acme 3-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: okamoto@granite.cias.osakafu-u.ac.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:12:02 +0900 Topicbox-Message-UUID: 6856e5dc-eacb-11e9-9e20-41e7f4b1d025 > that's why i thought it might be nice to have it go automatically to > the window you've most recently interacted with ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I prefer this interface. > it doesn't look hard to do in the code. i'll experiment with it. Wow! I hope you'll get success! Kenji