Re: [9fans] Using the Acme Editor

[Pietro Gagliardi <pietro10@mac.com>]

On Aug 19, 2008, at 7:51 PM, Eris Discordia wrote:
>> Plan 9 obeys the UNIX way: tools that make jobs simpler.
>
> A UNIX better than UNIX? I thought that was just the thing 9people  
> claimed to be past. Didn't I hear someone saying, "Plan 9 is not  
> UNIX?" Ahem... GNU's Not UNIX, too, nah?

No, that's not what I said. I said that Plan 9 obeys the UNIX  
philosophy, not that it was UNIX. GNU obeys this philosophy (up to the  
point of where to draw the lines on the size of tools). And to some  
extent, Windows (Windows Movie Maker doesn't call up another computer  
now, does it?)

>> "Everything is a UTF-8 [...]"
>
> Do me a favor. Fire up your beloved upas, use mail, and relay one  
> email through upas/smtpd to smtp.gmail.com:587 with the words  
> "שָׁלוֹם עֲלֵיכֶם" (Hebrew, Shalom aleichem) or  
> "سلام علیکم" (Arabic, Salam-on alaikom) to my address. Let's  
> see if "the mail goes through."
>

Mac, and I use OS X Mail (so I can get my hands on IMAP's folder  
system). How about the fact that Simon was able to give you a  
trademark symbol? Do yourself a favor: YOU test it. Look in /lib/ 
keyboard for some characters and send them here. If they come back as  
sent, you've proven my point. Otherwise, you found a bug.

>> "Everything is a UTF-8 text file or a mountable filesystem, even  
>> devices
>> and severs" encourages transparency of modules: you can copy a file  
>> from
>> a Gopher network in Tokyo to a mobile phone from Mexico or have the
>> filesystem report how much free space is left without running a  
>> million
>> commands or typing a thousand lines of code.
>
> The path from Gopher to your PC--or it was a Mac that you had?--was  
> paved years ago on UNIX. Then the path from Tokyo to Mexico was  
> built on UNIX, and today it _runs_ on UNIX. Now, the real problem  
> begins when you want to get your cell phone to talk 9P-over-IP.
>
> Do you have a 9P client for your cell phone? You "wrote" it already?  
> Does it run on Java? Or Symbian? Or Vendor X's proprietary embedded  
> OS? Did you do it on Plan 9? Or did you snatch an SDK written for  
> some other livelier OS?
>
> Go fool someone else with your empty rhetoric, buddy.
>

My rhetoric is not empty. I am not saying go ahead and write that 9P.  
I'm saying the jobs are trivial, only three lines of rc:

	gopherfs -m/n/gopher tokyo.ac.jp		# Demonstration; don't try this
	motorola -m/n/cell -M 'RAZR V3' 555 555 5555
	cp /n/gopher/a/b/r.tokyo.jpg /n/cell/pictures/r.tokyo.jpg

Write that in sockets. Since that is what you use, don't you?

As for filesystem usage,

	echo fsys all df | con -l /srv/fscons

Go look up the source for GNU df, and tell me if it's that simple.

>> If you are not like that, leave.
>
> No, I _am_ not like that. I also _don't_ like that. And I've left.  
> The post was not for you to chew on, it was for the benefit of the  
> thread's originator.
>

Good riddance. But you're missing a wonderful opportunity. Just open  
your eyes.

On Aug 19, 2008, at 8:10 PM, Eris Discordia wrote:

> What exactly do you Get Done (tm) on Plan 9? I mean, aren't there  
> easier ways to do it? If yes, staying on Plan 9 is simply "fanity"-- 
> a la vanity-- and "fanity" is beyond reason; my reason, at least. If  
> no, how come your job's so specific that can't be done on much more  
> widely used systems? Probably it's just 1-3.

- Programming in userland: mainly compiler design, along with a few  
other projects.
- Document typesetting (I love troff). That's not on your list, is it?
- Goofing off: lots of free games

The point of this all?

Plan 9 is not JUST a research system. It is a complete operating  
system. It has great tools for making greater tools, or for just  
increasing (or decreasing) your productivity. If you're too blunt to  
care, fuck off. You've done that to us already, on many occasions.