From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes Message-id: <525F775C-FE15-4125-BDCE-AA538C58E609@mac.com> From: Pietro Gagliardi To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> In-reply-to: <0657ECBD7EA56D387C67DA6E@computer> Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 20:30:41 -0400 References: <0657ECBD7EA56D387C67DA6E@computer> Subject: Re: [9fans] Using the Acme Editor Topicbox-Message-UUID: 00750f26-ead4-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 On Aug 19, 2008, at 7:51 PM, Eris Discordia wrote: >> Plan 9 obeys the UNIX way: tools that make jobs simpler. > > A UNIX better than UNIX? I thought that was just the thing 9people =20 > claimed to be past. Didn't I hear someone saying, "Plan 9 is not =20 > UNIX?" Ahem... GNU's Not UNIX, too, nah? No, that's not what I said. I said that Plan 9 obeys the UNIX =20 philosophy, not that it was UNIX. GNU obeys this philosophy (up to the =20= point of where to draw the lines on the size of tools). And to some =20 extent, Windows (Windows Movie Maker doesn't call up another computer =20= now, does it?) >> "Everything is a UTF-8 [...]" > > Do me a favor. Fire up your beloved upas, use mail, and relay one =20 > email through upas/smtpd to smtp.gmail.com:587 with the words =20 > "=D7=A9=D6=B8=D7=81=D7=9C=D7=95=D6=B9=D7=9D =D7=A2=D6=B2=D7=9C=D6=B5=D7=99= =D7=9B=D6=B6=D7=9D" (Hebrew, Shalom aleichem) or =20 > "=D8=B3=D9=84=D8=A7=D9=85 =D8=B9=D9=84=DB=8C=DA=A9=D9=85" (Arabic, = Salam-on alaikom) to my address. Let's =20 > see if "the mail goes through." > Mac, and I use OS X Mail (so I can get my hands on IMAP's folder =20 system). How about the fact that Simon was able to give you a =20 trademark symbol? Do yourself a favor: YOU test it. Look in /lib/=20 keyboard for some characters and send them here. If they come back as =20= sent, you've proven my point. Otherwise, you found a bug. >> "Everything is a UTF-8 text file or a mountable filesystem, even =20 >> devices >> and severs" encourages transparency of modules: you can copy a file =20= >> from >> a Gopher network in Tokyo to a mobile phone from Mexico or have the >> filesystem report how much free space is left without running a =20 >> million >> commands or typing a thousand lines of code. > > The path from Gopher to your PC--or it was a Mac that you had?--was =20= > paved years ago on UNIX. Then the path from Tokyo to Mexico was =20 > built on UNIX, and today it _runs_ on UNIX. Now, the real problem =20 > begins when you want to get your cell phone to talk 9P-over-IP. > > Do you have a 9P client for your cell phone? You "wrote" it already? =20= > Does it run on Java? Or Symbian? Or Vendor X's proprietary embedded =20= > OS? Did you do it on Plan 9? Or did you snatch an SDK written for =20 > some other livelier OS? > > Go fool someone else with your empty rhetoric, buddy. > My rhetoric is not empty. I am not saying go ahead and write that 9P. =20= I'm saying the jobs are trivial, only three lines of rc: gopherfs -m/n/gopher tokyo.ac.jp # Demonstration; = don't try this motorola -m/n/cell -M 'RAZR V3' 555 555 5555 cp /n/gopher/a/b/r.tokyo.jpg /n/cell/pictures/r.tokyo.jpg Write that in sockets. Since that is what you use, don't you? As for filesystem usage, echo fsys all df | con -l /srv/fscons Go look up the source for GNU df, and tell me if it's that simple. >> If you are not like that, leave. > > No, I _am_ not like that. I also _don't_ like that. And I've left. =20 > The post was not for you to chew on, it was for the benefit of the =20 > thread's originator. > Good riddance. But you're missing a wonderful opportunity. Just open =20 your eyes. On Aug 19, 2008, at 8:10 PM, Eris Discordia wrote: > What exactly do you Get Done (tm) on Plan 9? I mean, aren't there =20 > easier ways to do it? If yes, staying on Plan 9 is simply "fanity"--=20= > a la vanity-- and "fanity" is beyond reason; my reason, at least. If =20= > no, how come your job's so specific that can't be done on much more =20= > widely used systems? Probably it's just 1-3. - Programming in userland: mainly compiler design, along with a few =20 other projects. - Document typesetting (I love troff). That's not on your list, is it? - Goofing off: lots of free games The point of this all? Plan 9 is not JUST a research system. It is a complete operating =20 system. It has great tools for making greater tools, or for just =20 increasing (or decreasing) your productivity. If you're too blunt to =20 care, fuck off. You've done that to us already, on many occasions.