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Fri, 10 May 2024 00:46:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.11.0-alpha0-443-g0dc955c2a-fm-20240507.001-g0dc955c2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <528ac9a8-92be-43a3-b531-db09ce0d6cae@app.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <53b297f4-31d4-48fd-86f4-6b5c2393edc0@app.fastmail.com> <84aa1c7f-1f39-43eb-81a2-b73cc432196a@app.fastmail.com> Date: Fri, 10 May 2024 13:44:48 +0900 From: vic.thacker@fastmail.fm To: "leimy2k via 9fans" <9fans@9fans.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: 3f3e283c-0e88-11ef-b29f-c5aafe8b7b06 Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UY2YxMjhmYTk1NWI4YWFmYy1NNWVlMTU2NDg1ZWQxYTFlZTllNjA1?= =?UTF-8?B?OTc4Pg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:M5ee156485ed1a1ee9e605978:1:UtVLKM8kQWRXjA0op5Al7EqCxwMKu8kslBCdyNaXZDU Hi Hiro et al, I view Plan 9 4th Edition as a version that remains largely unchanged, serv= ing as a snapshot in time, while 9legacy represents an active, distinct dis= tribution. Conversely, 9front is a fork that has evolved significantly from= Plan 9 4th Edition, making considerable advancements in recent years. I appreciate the push for modernization with 9front, but I also see value i= n maintaining support for older versions like Plan 9 4th Edition and 9legac= y. Living in Japan, I have access to inexpensive hardware=E2=80=94local co= mputer resellers often offer older computers for as little as 2,000 yen eac= h (e.g. $12.85 USD). For about 8,000 yen, it is possible to set up a funct= ional Plan 9 system. This isn=E2=80=99t about leading the charge with the = latest and greatest OS; it's about the joy of tinkering and making the most= of accessible resources. For hobbyists like myself, the ability to use an= d experiment with older systems is invaluable. Maintaining some level of s= upport or compatibility in the community can enhance the inclusiveness and = experimental spirit that is fundamental to Plan 9=E2=80=99s ethos. Maintaining updates and compatibility between Plan 9 4th Edition, 9legacy, = and 9front can provide several benefits, especially in a diverse community = like that of Plan 9. Here are some of the key advantages: (1) Broader Hardware Support: By keeping Plan 9 4th Edition and 9legacy up= dated, users who rely on older or less common hardware configurations that = may not be fully supported by 9front can still benefit from updates and imp= rovements. This is particularly useful in academic or hobbyist settings wh= ere newer hardware may not be readily available or economically feasible. (2) Incremental Upgrades: Some users may prefer an incremental approach to= system upgrades rather than a complete switch to a newer version. Integrat= ing changes from 9front into 9legacy and Plan 9 4th Edition allows these us= ers to benefit from specific enhancements without the need to overhaul thei= r entire system setup. (3) Community Engagement: Keeping these versions updated helps engage diff= erent segments of the Plan 9 community. It acknowledges the needs and pref= erences of those who might prefer the familiarity of 9legacy or Plan 9 4th = Edition, fostering a more inclusive and vibrant community. (4) Preservation of Educational and Historical Value: Plan 9 has significa= nt educational and historical importance in the field of operating systems.= Maintaining and updating older versions ensures that this legacy is prese= rved, allowing new generations of students and enthusiasts to learn from an= d experiment with these systems. (5) Security and Stability: Regular updates can address security vulnerabi= lities and fix bugs across all versions, ensuring that even older deploymen= ts remain secure and stable. This is crucial for maintaining the integrity= and usability of the systems over time. (6) Customization: Some users or organizations might have customized their= systems based on older versions of Plan 9. Keeping these systems updated = with changes from 9front can provide a path for these custom setups to rece= ive new features and improvements while maintaining their unique configurat= ions. Overall, the integration of updates across different versions of Plan 9 can= help keep the system modern, secure, and accessible to a wide range of use= rs, enhancing both its utility and appeal. In embracing both the new and preserving the old, we not only honor the ric= h legacy of Plan 9 but also ensure its relevance and accessibility for all = users, regardless of their hardware or specific needs. By updating 9legacy = and Plan 9 4th Edition alongside 9front, we foster a community that values = progress and innovation while respecting and supporting the diverse ways in= which people interact with our beloved operating system. Together, let's c= ontinue to build a welcoming and vibrant Plan 9 community that thrives on b= oth change and tradition. Kind regards, Vester "Vic" Thacker On Fri, May 10, 2024, at 04:50, hiro wrote: > no clue which conflict you're seeing, vic. > > there's been some trolling back and forth since forever, there's been > complaints and contributions, and more complaints about the > contributions and the lack of contributions. as it should be. we can > have one united community if you like but then i hope we still have > those complaints. if no issues come up it just means that nobody used > the system. > > personally i think non-dp9ik protocols should be removed completely or > at the very least only allowed with very big fat warning messages. if > 9legacy still doesn't have dp9ik, then why don't you just let 9legacy > die? is there a single 9legacy-only improvement that's worth having in > the first place? why does this discussion here even exist? if you want > interoperability between things just upgrade everything to 9front. > there's no more straightforward way, or? > > i know from linuxland where some garbage firmware or closed-source > kernel driver prevents the use of newer linux releases, but i don't > see similar problems in the 9front world at all. 9front provides a > very steady and stable upgrade path i see no reason to keep an older > plan9 4th edition system alive at all. what hardware does anybody have > where 9front doesn't work but plan9 4th edition does?! > ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tcf128fa955b8aafc-M5ee15= 6485ed1a1ee9e605978 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription