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identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="sirjofri+ml-9fans@sirjofri.de"; helo=sirjofri.de; client-ip=5.45.105.127 Received: from sirjofri.de (sirjofri.de [5.45.105.127]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS for <9fans@9fans.net>; Tue, 30 Dec 2025 16:37:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from dummy.faircode.eu ([84.165.119.149]) by sirjofri.de; Tue Dec 30 22:37:09 +0100 2025 Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2025 22:37:09 +0100 To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Message-ID: <54c7d3ca-7bb4-44f6-8fc6-f8bc51cdd974@sirjofri.de> In-Reply-To: <20251230.105643.1185666151293172501.dworkin@weaselfish.com> References: <760adea1-7ed3-4c91-a320-8e54267cb01c@app.fastmail.com> <1076b151-30f7-42e9-ba16-be8ddefc64c6@app.fastmail.com> <20251230.105643.1185666151293172501.dworkin@weaselfish.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Solo factotum MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Correlation-ID: <54c7d3ca-7bb4-44f6-8fc6-f8bc51cdd974@sirjofri.de> Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: moderate: sender is a member; group holds all messages Topicbox-Message-UUID: b5fa141e-e5c7-11f0-a1b4-50ed0fc0285f Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UYTYwNzUyNjYzZmYwODQ0OC1NY2U0ZGQ0OGRhMGM0MTM3MTNhMmRi?= =?UTF-8?B?ZDY2Pg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> From: "sirjofri via 9fans" <9fans@9fans.net> List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:Mce4dd48da0c413713a2dbd66:1:gvNCUc3MGhjgVqxLqmZGKHsAvewBFZAx_nibBWphOuM 30.12.2025 19:22:13 Dworkin Muller : > Alternatively, just set it up as a secret store, like is done with > terminals.=C2=A0 Not quite as elegant/cool, but perhaps more practical. In general, you're right. However the big difference (and why I think there= 's a solid use case for a factotum key) is that the machine that runs facto= tum has to be secure. If you have a terminal with its own factotum program,= that's fine. The program is on a trusted machine. However, if your termina= l boots off a fs, you have to trust the factotum program on that fs to not = steal your keys when executed. If you run factotum in a remote session, you= have to trust the server. If you have a single enclosed factotum key and n= o way for the host to download the secrets directly, then you can use it ev= en on an untrusted machine. Sure, you still need a way to edit the keys. Maybe a specific mount access = using an additional secret for editing or something similar could be invent= ed. In any case, I think for a fully trusted environment you probably don't nee= d a factotum key. I think the whole factotum and secstore stuff is built ar= ound this level of trust (you trust the grid). If you consider a public gri= d with multiple users and people who sign in as guests, I'd prefer to not h= ave my secrets uploaded into the memory of a machine that I can't control m= yself, if possible. And people do set up grids like that. That's why I welc= ome experiments into that direction. Not to replace the current status quo,= but to extend it in a compatible way for different use cases. sirjofri ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Ta60752663ff08448-Mce4dd= 48da0c413713a2dbd66 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription