[9fans] Laptop advice

[9fans] Laptop advice

[lucio]

I'm looking for a laptop that will run Plan 9 native and not sacrifice
too many of its features in the process.  High resolution screen and
supported Wi-Fi (possibly add-on, in which case, please recommend a
product and a source) are particularly desirable assets, audio would
be nice.

I won't mind using an external mouse, seeing that there is little
alternative.

And considering that I'm likely to look for a refurbished model, it
does not necessarily have to be Intel or AMD, a Mac need not be
excluded.

Let me know.  I don't have to buy locally (South Africa) or in a
hurry, so if anyone has something for sale that will travel safely, I
may be very interested.

++L

PS: I suspect I'll boot-select (Ubuntu) Linux most of the time and run
Plan 9 under VMware server, but being able to boot-select a decent
version of Plan 9 is absolutely essential.

Re: [9fans] Laptop advice

[ron minnich]

I just got a fujitsu lifebook, which seems to be mostly compatible, or
used to be.

ron

Re: [9fans] Laptop advice

[Uriel]

The classic T22 with the SXGA+ screen seem to still be the best (you
should get an orinoco pcmcia card for wifi, which is the only one
supported anyway). And they can be found quite cheaply (around 300$ I
think). Of course, if you also want to run a recent lunix version or
vista, or whatever, you probably will need something more 'modern'.

uriel

On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 1:27 PM,  <lucio@proxima.alt.za> wrote:
> I'm looking for a laptop that will run Plan 9 native and not sacrifice
> too many of its features in the process.  High resolution screen and
> supported Wi-Fi (possibly add-on, in which case, please recommend a
> product and a source) are particularly desirable assets, audio would
> be nice.
>
> I won't mind using an external mouse, seeing that there is little
> alternative.
>
> And considering that I'm likely to look for a refurbished model, it
> does not necessarily have to be Intel or AMD, a Mac need not be
> excluded.
>
> Let me know.  I don't have to buy locally (South Africa) or in a
> hurry, so if anyone has something for sale that will travel safely, I
> may be very interested.
>
> ++L
>
> PS: I suspect I'll boot-select (Ubuntu) Linux most of the time and run
> Plan 9 under VMware server, but being able to boot-select a decent
> version of Plan 9 is absolutely essential.
>
>
>

Re: [9fans] Laptop advice

[Kernel Panic]

Uriel wrote:
> The classic T22 with the SXGA+ screen seem to still be the best (you
> should get an orinoco pcmcia card for wifi, which is the only one
> supported anyway). And they can be found quite cheaply (around 300$ I
> think). Of course, if you also want to run a recent lunix version or
> vista, or whatever, you probably will need something more 'modern'.
>
T23 works well too
> uriel
>
cinap

Re: [9fans] Laptop advice

[lejatorn]

T61 here.

1) Display working fine (intel X3100 chip).
2) At first I had problems with the ethernet and sata drivers but Erik
fixed that.
3) Usb not always working (I have not investigated that thoroughly enough
yet), but good enough for mouse.
4) Optical media burning somewhat working (dma deactivated and dvdrw
burning fails.)
5) Sound not working (apparently because it's an intel HDA chip instead
of the good ol one supported by ac97 driver).
6) wifi I don't care so I haven't even tried but I believe it's not
supported anyway.

Everything (that I know of) supported fine on linux if you care about
that.

Cheers,
Mathieu.

On Mon, Jun 09, 2008 at 02:13:46PM +0200, Kernel Panic wrote:
> Uriel wrote:
> >The classic T22 with the SXGA+ screen seem to still be the best (you
> >should get an orinoco pcmcia card for wifi, which is the only one
> >supported anyway). And they can be found quite cheaply (around 300$ I
> >think). Of course, if you also want to run a recent lunix version or
> >vista, or whatever, you probably will need something more 'modern'.
> >
> T23 works well too
> >uriel
> >
> cinap
>

Re: [9fans] Laptop advice

[Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente]

HP Omnibook XE3 with a PCMCIA Orinoco card works too.
It is an oldie though....

On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 7:13 AM, Kernel Panic <cinap_lenrek@gmx.de> wrote:
> Uriel wrote:
>>
>> The classic T22 with the SXGA+ screen seem to still be the best (you
>> should get an orinoco pcmcia card for wifi, which is the only one
>> supported anyway). And they can be found quite cheaply (around 300$ I
>> think). Of course, if you also want to run a recent lunix version or
>> vista, or whatever, you probably will need something more 'modern'.
>>
>
> T23 works well too
>>
>> uriel
>>
>
> cinap
>
>

Re: [9fans] Laptop advice

[Digby Tarvin]

I could well believe that Vista would struggle on anything less
than a Cray, but Linux isn't *that* demanding is it?

I had a look at the T22 specs and they seem pretty respectable to
me, at least compared to some of the systems I have Linux running
on (eg 64MB, 266MHz Pentium MMX).

And BSD is still running fine on my 48MB, 66MHz 486dx (although admitedly
its not so good for running netscape or heavy crypto).

Of course it might be different if I were trying to run full blown
KDE or GNOME, but you can't really blame the operating system for that.
(though a T22 looks like it would be able to handle it if necessary)

I do find I tend to need a lot more HDD capacity than comes as
standard on older machines when running a Unix variant. But even
my old 486 was upgradeable from the original 122MB hard drive to a
pair of 40GB drives, so it isn't usually a problem.

Personally I think there is a lot to be said for doing development on
modest spec'd machines, unless (like Microsoft) you have a vested
interest in generating a need for hardware upgrades...

Anyway - I found an old Thinkpad 600 in my junk box. Anyone know
if that would make a useable Plan9 machine?

DigbyT

On Sun, Jun 08, 2008 at 06:47:53PM +0200, Uriel wrote:
> The classic T22 with the SXGA+ screen seem to still be the best (you
> should get an orinoco pcmcia card for wifi, which is the only one
> supported anyway). And they can be found quite cheaply (around 300$ I
> think). Of course, if you also want to run a recent lunix version or
> vista, or whatever, you probably will need something more 'modern'.
>
> uriel
>
> On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 1:27 PM,  <lucio@proxima.alt.za> wrote:
> > I'm looking for a laptop that will run Plan 9 native and not sacrifice
> > too many of its features in the process.  High resolution screen and
> > supported Wi-Fi (possibly add-on, in which case, please recommend a
> > product and a source) are particularly desirable assets, audio would
> > be nice.
> >
> > I won't mind using an external mouse, seeing that there is little
> > alternative.
> >
> > And considering that I'm likely to look for a refurbished model, it
> > does not necessarily have to be Intel or AMD, a Mac need not be
> > excluded.
> >
> > Let me know.  I don't have to buy locally (South Africa) or in a
> > hurry, so if anyone has something for sale that will travel safely, I
> > may be very interested.
> >
> > ++L
> >
> > PS: I suspect I'll boot-select (Ubuntu) Linux most of the time and run
> > Plan 9 under VMware server, but being able to boot-select a decent
> > version of Plan 9 is absolutely essential.
> >
> >
> >

--
Digby R. S. Tarvin                                          digbyt(at)digbyt.com
http://www.digbyt.com

Re: [9fans] Laptop advice

[Charles Forsyth]

> than a Cray, but Linux isn't *that* demanding is it?

last week i added 1gb RAM to my previously 512mbyte lenovo (3000 N100) to stop
the linux system from thrashing.  all i run directly is firefox and drawterm.
the system was fine at 512mbyte until a few weeks ago (when more updates
arrived).

i could probably have got by with `only' 256mbyte or 512mbyte more but the
bigger memory card was hardly more expensive.

Re: [9fans] Laptop advice

[Charles Forsyth]

> Anyway - I found an old Thinkpad 600 in my junk box. Anyone know
> if that would make a useable Plan9 machine?

it should be fine.

Re: [9fans] Laptop advice

[erik quanstrom]

On Mon Jun  9 11:33:19 EDT 2008, digbyt@acm.org wrote:
> I could well believe that Vista would struggle on anything less
> than a Cray, but Linux isn't *that* demanding is it?
>
> I had a look at the T22 specs and they seem pretty respectable to
> me, at least compared to some of the systems I have Linux running
> on (eg 64MB, 266MHz Pentium MMX).
>
> And BSD is still running fine on my 48MB, 66MHz 486dx (although admitedly
> its not so good for running netscape or heavy crypto).
>
> Of course it might be different if I were trying to run full blown
> KDE or GNOME, but you can't really blame the operating system for that.
> (though a T22 looks like it would be able to handle it if necessary)

well the first thing most people run on linux is firefox, flash and
acrobat.  those three horsemen of the apocalypse bring my pIII/256mb
machine to its knees.

while your point is valid, the only reason i run linux at all is for the
three horsemen.  so maybe "linux" is not short for gnu/linux in most
people's mind, it's short for firefox/linux. :-)

- erik

Re: [9fans] Laptop advice

[Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente]

Who needs firefox having abaco ;)

In fact I think linux has become more and more bloa... I mean resource
demanding lately.
Some years ago I had a 100MHz IBM (Cyrix?) 8MiB ram machine that made
marvels for me...
It is impressive what we did with so "little"... 3d modelling, raytracing...
What did get so wrong that now people are willing to pay for a 1GiB
ram minimum resource predator?

Anyway... Someone told me that Toshiba Libretto C70 works good with
plan 9... plus it is "VHS" sized.
(I think that floppy is a little tricky... I'll have to ask)


On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 10:49 AM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@coraid.com> wrote:
> On Mon Jun  9 11:33:19 EDT 2008, digbyt@acm.org wrote:
>> I could well believe that Vista would struggle on anything less
>> than a Cray, but Linux isn't *that* demanding is it?
>>
>> I had a look at the T22 specs and they seem pretty respectable to
>> me, at least compared to some of the systems I have Linux running
>> on (eg 64MB, 266MHz Pentium MMX).
>>
>> And BSD is still running fine on my 48MB, 66MHz 486dx (although admitedly
>> its not so good for running netscape or heavy crypto).
>>
>> Of course it might be different if I were trying to run full blown
>> KDE or GNOME, but you can't really blame the operating system for that.
>> (though a T22 looks like it would be able to handle it if necessary)
>
> well the first thing most people run on linux is firefox, flash and
> acrobat.  those three horsemen of the apocalypse bring my pIII/256mb
> machine to its knees.
>
> while your point is valid, the only reason i run linux at all is for the
> three horsemen.  so maybe "linux" is not short for gnu/linux in most
> people's mind, it's short for firefox/linux. :-)
>
> - erik
>
>

Re: [9fans] Laptop advice

[Digby Tarvin]

Actually, since you mention it, a Toshiba Libretto is one of the
'modest' machines I have Linux running on:
   Kernel command line: auto BOOT_IMAGE=linux/xaccel ro root=306
  	  BOOT_FILE=/boot/vmlinuz monitor=xaccel
   Initializing CPU#0
   Detected 166.637 MHz processor.
   Console: colour VGA+ 80x25
   Calibrating delay loop... 332.59 BogoMIPS
   Memory: 62132k/65664k available (1263k kernel code, 3144k reserved,
      370k data, 120k init, 0k highmem)

I'm still running netscape on it because I fear Firefox may have
bloated beyond its reasonable capabilities...

It is a 100CT, not a 70, but maybe I should give it a try a try
with plan9 too.

And yes, the floppy is often problematic as it is an external PCMCIA
device. The BIOS knows how to boot from it, but most installers fail
when they try to access the floppy themselves (such as to load the
driver for a PCMCIA CDROM drive or network card). There is a patch to get
it working under Linux, but you need a non-standard install to
get up to the point of being able to use it. Once you get over the
install hurdle, however, it works just fine with most OSs.

It might be a compact little Plan9 machine - if the 800x480 display
isn't too limiting..

Regards,
DigbyT

On Mon, Jun 09, 2008 at 11:12:45AM -0500, Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente wrote:
> Who needs firefox having abaco ;)
>
> In fact I think linux has become more and more bloa... I mean resource
> demanding lately.
> Some years ago I had a 100MHz IBM (Cyrix?) 8MiB ram machine that made
> marvels for me...
> It is impressive what we did with so "little"... 3d modelling, raytracing...
> What did get so wrong that now people are willing to pay for a 1GiB
> ram minimum resource predator?
>
> Anyway... Someone told me that Toshiba Libretto C70 works good with
> plan 9... plus it is "VHS" sized.
> (I think that floppy is a little tricky... I'll have to ask)
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 10:49 AM, erik quanstrom <quanstro@coraid.com> wrote:
> > On Mon Jun  9 11:33:19 EDT 2008, digbyt@acm.org wrote:
> >> I could well believe that Vista would struggle on anything less
> >> than a Cray, but Linux isn't *that* demanding is it?
> >>
> >> I had a look at the T22 specs and they seem pretty respectable to
> >> me, at least compared to some of the systems I have Linux running
> >> on (eg 64MB, 266MHz Pentium MMX).
> >>
> >> And BSD is still running fine on my 48MB, 66MHz 486dx (although admitedly
> >> its not so good for running netscape or heavy crypto).
> >>
> >> Of course it might be different if I were trying to run full blown
> >> KDE or GNOME, but you can't really blame the operating system for that.
> >> (though a T22 looks like it would be able to handle it if necessary)
> >
> > well the first thing most people run on linux is firefox, flash and
> > acrobat.  those three horsemen of the apocalypse bring my pIII/256mb
> > machine to its knees.
> >
> > while your point is valid, the only reason i run linux at all is for the
> > three horsemen.  so maybe "linux" is not short for gnu/linux in most
> > people's mind, it's short for firefox/linux. :-)
> >
> > - erik
> >
> >

--
Digby R. S. Tarvin                                          digbyt(at)digbyt.com
http://www.digbyt.com

Re: [9fans] Laptop advice

[erik quanstrom]

On Mon Jun  9 12:14:50 EDT 2008, lorenzobivens@gmail.com wrote:
> Who needs firefox having abaco ;)
>

anyone who wishes to access a site depending on javascript.

- erik

Re: [9fans] Laptop advice

[Wes Kussmaul]

Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente wrote:

> What did get so wrong that now people are willing to pay for a 1GiB
> ram minimum resource predator?

1. We allowed the revenue generation plans of the processor & memory
manufacturers drive the client machine design agenda through their
software partners and their layers of VARs

2. We allowed standards-by-committees-of-committees uberdemocracy to
prevent real design sense (as directed from one good brain) from prevailing

3. We prevented any form of DCPA (duly constituted public authority)
from being able to say: "No, you are not permitted to add another layer
of abstraction to get around the committee-driven standards. You'll have
to convince me that the standards need to be changed."

But there's a silver lining. With every passing day it becomes more
apparent to the slightly smarter than average bloke (or blokette) that
things have gotten out of hand. One must hit bottom for there to be a
desire for change...

See minutes 1:43 - 1:54 of this video:

rtsp://ibs.itu.int/archives3/wsis/200805c5/22pm.qt

Re: [9fans] Laptop advice

[matt]

Back in March people were trying the EEEPC with slight progress - did
anyone get any joy there ?


I have a T23 which is a good Plan 9 laptop with Orinoco PCMCIA WiFi,
though I've not tried the AC97

They are under 200 euros on ebay with 512Mb & 80Gb

1024x768 screen

3 buttons and a nipple not a touchpad

no Windows key :)

Re: [9fans] Laptop advice

[Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente]

I am trying Eeepc...
But I've had a lot of work lately, so I've fallen into the lunix dark
side in the meanwhile.

I think it is "mostly" an usb bootability matter. Eeepc ain't very exotic...

On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 1:41 PM, matt <mattmobile@proweb.co.uk> wrote:
> Back in March people were trying the EEEPC with slight progress - did anyone
> get any joy there ?
>
>
> I have a T23 which is a good Plan 9 laptop with Orinoco PCMCIA WiFi, though
> I've not tried the AC97
>
> They are under 200 euros on ebay with 512Mb & 80Gb
>
> 1024x768 screen
>
> 3 buttons and a nipple not a touchpad
>
> no Windows key :)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [9fans] Laptop advice

[ron minnich]

On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 8:30 AM, Digby Tarvin <digbyt@acm.org> wrote:
> I could well believe that Vista would struggle on anything less
> than a Cray, but Linux isn't *that* demanding is it?
>

Linux is an utter porker. ubuntu on my T23 is really awful, I fixed it
by  turning most of it off.

They've fallen into the layers of abstraction trap, achieved more and
more with the ever popular initialized structures (by ld of course)
that point this way, that way, and every way. I had the fun experience
recently of tracking a write system call via nfs3.  Impressive that it
works, impressive in its complexity, depressing in most ways.

Just look at the OLPC stuff. Linux and Sugar environment now make XP
look fast. Now that's a sad comment.

Besides, most crays nowadays are made of opterons that run slower than
your laptop :-)

ron

Re: [9fans] Laptop advice

[Roman Shaposhnik]

On Mon, 2008-06-09 at 16:45 +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote:
> > than a Cray, but Linux isn't *that* demanding is it?
>
> last week i added 1gb RAM to my previously 512mbyte lenovo (3000 N100) to stop
> the linux system from thrashing.  all i run directly is firefox and drawterm.
> the system was fine at 512mbyte until a few weeks ago (when more updates
> arrived).
>
> i could probably have got by with `only' 256mbyte or 512mbyte more but the
> bigger memory card was hardly more expensive.

Since we're on the subject of memory hogs: does anybody know a way for
querying Linux or Solaris (or any OS for that matter) of what the
*physical* pages correspond to and how many virtual pages (and in which
processes) they map into. The only utility that comes close is memstat:
  http://www.fifi.org/cgi-bin/man2html/usr/share/man/man1/memstat.1.gz
but I don't quite believe its output, since it relies on the second
hand information available from /proc/*/map and a really awkward mapping
process.

Thanks,
Roman.

Re: [9fans] Laptop advice

[Digby Tarvin]

I don't think the virtual to physical mapping provides as much
insight into memory usage as you might think...

My understanding of the way it works in Linux (in the default
Intel configuration) is that the 4GB virtual address space is split
into 2 areas, the upper 1GB being a direct mapping to the first
GB of physical memory, minus a small range of virtual address used
as a window to access any physical memory in excess of 1GB (hence
the distinction between high and low memory in the kernel).

The lower 3GB of virtual address space is available for the currently
running process, and is configured according to /proc/<pid>/maps

Working out how your physical memory is currently being used seems
to involve quite a few kernel data structures. I don't know of any
utility that collates it all into anything other than general
statistics. It would be an interesting thing to look at if anyone
knows of one.

Regards,
DigbyT

On Mon, Jun 09, 2008 at 05:08:06PM -0700, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
> On Mon, 2008-06-09 at 16:45 +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote:
> > > than a Cray, but Linux isn't *that* demanding is it?
> >
> > last week i added 1gb RAM to my previously 512mbyte lenovo (3000 N100) to stop
> > the linux system from thrashing.  all i run directly is firefox and drawterm.
> > the system was fine at 512mbyte until a few weeks ago (when more updates
> > arrived).
> >
> > i could probably have got by with `only' 256mbyte or 512mbyte more but the
> > bigger memory card was hardly more expensive.
>
> Since we're on the subject of memory hogs: does anybody know a way for
> querying Linux or Solaris (or any OS for that matter) of what the
> *physical* pages correspond to and how many virtual pages (and in which
> processes) they map into. The only utility that comes close is memstat:
>   http://www.fifi.org/cgi-bin/man2html/usr/share/man/man1/memstat.1.gz
> but I don't quite believe its output, since it relies on the second
> hand information available from /proc/*/map and a really awkward mapping
> process.
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.

--
Digby R. S. Tarvin                                          digbyt(at)digbyt.com
http://www.digbyt.com

Re: [9fans] Laptop advice

[lucio]

> 3 buttons and a nipple not a touchpad
>
> no Windows key :)

These are concrete assets.  I know at least one other laptop user (I
have an old Compac Presario 900, he has a newer Acer or some such)
that manages to trigger the touchpad without touching it.  Very, very
annoying.  As for the Windows key, on the limited keyboard real estate
of a laptop, it is a serious waste.

++L

Re: [9fans] Laptop advice

[matt]

>> 3 buttons and a nipple not a touchpad
>>
>> no Windows key :)
>>
>
> These are concrete assets.
I know, that's why I reported them. Chording with a touchpad is
something you could show at a circus.

I'm running low on three button mouses too :(

Re: [9fans] Laptop advice

[Uriel]

> Anyway - I found an old Thinkpad 600 in my junk box. Anyone know
> if that would make a useable Plan9 machine?

Should work fine, I have ran Plan 9 on 600E and 600X for years... they
can still build a kernel in under a minute if my memory doesn't fail
me (certainly not much more).

uriel

Re: [9fans] Laptop advice

[david bulkow]

On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 11:03 PM, Digby Tarvin <digbyt@acm.org> wrote:
> I don't think the virtual to physical mapping provides as much
> insight into memory usage as you might think...
>
> My understanding of the way it works in Linux (in the default
> Intel configuration) is that the 4GB virtual address space is split
> into 2 areas, the upper 1GB being a direct mapping to the first
> GB of physical memory, minus a small range of virtual address used
> as a window to access any physical memory in excess of 1GB (hence
> the distinction between high and low memory in the kernel).
>
> The lower 3GB of virtual address space is available for the currently
> running process, and is configured according to /proc/<pid>/maps
>
> Working out how your physical memory is currently being used seems
> to involve quite a few kernel data structures. I don't know of any
> utility that collates it all into anything other than general
> statistics. It would be an interesting thing to look at if anyone
> knows of one.
>
> Regards,
> DigbyT
>
> On Mon, Jun 09, 2008 at 05:08:06PM -0700, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
>> On Mon, 2008-06-09 at 16:45 +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote:
>> > > than a Cray, but Linux isn't *that* demanding is it?
>> >
>> > last week i added 1gb RAM to my previously 512mbyte lenovo (3000 N100) to stop
>> > the linux system from thrashing.  all i run directly is firefox and drawterm.
>> > the system was fine at 512mbyte until a few weeks ago (when more updates
>> > arrived).
>> >
>> > i could probably have got by with `only' 256mbyte or 512mbyte more but the
>> > bigger memory card was hardly more expensive.
>>
>> Since we're on the subject of memory hogs: does anybody know a way for
>> querying Linux or Solaris (or any OS for that matter) of what the
>> *physical* pages correspond to and how many virtual pages (and in which
>> processes) they map into. The only utility that comes close is memstat:
>>   http://www.fifi.org/cgi-bin/man2html/usr/share/man/man1/memstat.1.gz
>> but I don't quite believe its output, since it relies on the second
>> hand information available from /proc/*/map and a really awkward mapping
>> process.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Roman.
>
> --
> Digby R. S. Tarvin                                          digbyt(at)digbyt.com
> http://www.digbyt.com
>
>

The memory/page map only indicates utilization, not by whom.  To
determine physical page use one would have to traverse the list of
processes and grovel through each of their virtual area maps to find
the physical mappings - then add the kernel references, which involves
another pile of structures in three regions.
But we digress.

Re: [9fans] Laptop advice

[John Waters]

I have an LG A1 "Dual Express" notebook that I bought here in Riyadh a
few months ago.
It also has a PRPD (pseudorandom pointing device) and it has nearly
driven me to the point of spazzing out on several occasions.  Other
than that it is a great litte laptop. Since it has an external USB
device I have not loaded plan9 on bare metal, I run it on VMWare
workstation 6.

Which brings me to a question:
Does anyone have trouble booting new installations of plan9 on
vmware6? I turn off hwaccel, load the os, and after the install
completes and the system reboots it just hangs. I am still using
systems built on Mahmoud's vmware image (for which I am indeed
grateful).

I would very much like to do clean installs on vmware, especially
since I am evangelizing plan9 as much as possible here in Saudi and
using it to teach my trainees about operating systems.

John

On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 7:01 AM,  <lucio@proxima.alt.za> wrote:
>> 3 buttons and a nipple not a touchpad
>>
>> no Windows key :)
>
> These are concrete assets.  I know at least one other laptop user (I
> have an old Compac Presario 900, he has a newer Acer or some such)
> that manages to trigger the touchpad without touching it.  Very, very
> annoying.  As for the Windows key, on the limited keyboard real estate
> of a laptop, it is a serious waste.
>
> ++L
>
>
>

Re: [9fans] Laptop advice

[Russ Cox]

> Does anyone have trouble booting new installations of plan9 on
> vmware6? I turn off hwaccel, load the os, and after the install
> completes and the system reboots it just hangs. I am still using
> systems built on Mahmoud's vmware image (for which I am indeed
> grateful).

Delete the CD drive from the configuration.
Plan 9 and VMware disagree on how an empty
CD drive should behave.

Russ