From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Message-ID: <6142a1690811141150x3870668fs46b1d28f0d8d214e@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 14:50:27 -0500
From: "Nolan Hamilton" <nolan.h.hamilton@gmail.com>
To: 9fans@9fans.net
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----=_Part_12882_2174635.1226692227322"
Subject: [9fans] Help downloading Plan B using hget
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 427d4f32-ead4-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

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Hello, I am a newcomer to plan 9.  I current have Plan9 installed on my
computer, and am trying to get Plan B.
I use "hget http://lsub.org/ls/export/planb4e.tgz"
I just get a whole bunch of letters and numbers.
Is this OK, or is there a problem becouse it keeps on doing this for a very
long time.
Also, once I have finished that, how do I save it to $home.

-Nolan Hamilton

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<div>Hello, I am a newcomer to plan 9.&nbsp; I current have Plan9 installed on my computer, and am trying to get Plan B. </div>
<div>I use &quot;hget <a href="http://lsub.org/ls/export/planb4e.tgz">http://lsub.org/ls/export/planb4e.tgz</a>&quot;</div>
<div>I just get a whole bunch of letters and numbers.</div>
<div>Is this OK, or is there a problem becouse it keeps on doing this for a very long time.</div>
<div>Also, once I have finished that, how do I save it to $home.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>-Nolan Hamilton</div>

------=_Part_12882_2174635.1226692227322--



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Message-ID: <3df301650811141204w165945ddvf39d788a62d6a56f@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 14:04:44 -0600
From: "michael block" <michaelmuffin@gmail.com>
To: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@9fans.net>
In-Reply-To: <6142a1690811141150x3870668fs46b1d28f0d8d214e@mail.gmail.com>
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References: <6142a1690811141150x3870668fs46b1d28f0d8d214e@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [9fans] Help downloading Plan B using hget
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 428aed86-ead4-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 13:50, Nolan Hamilton
<nolan.h.hamilton@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello, I am a newcomer to plan 9.  I current have Plan9 installed on my
> computer, and am trying to get Plan B.
> I use "hget http://lsub.org/ls/export/planb4e.tgz"
> I just get a whole bunch of letters and numbers.
> Is this OK, or is there a problem becouse it keeps on doing this for a very
> long time.
> Also, once I have finished that, how do I save it to $home.
>
> -Nolan Hamilton

try "hget http://lsub.org/ls/export/planb4e.tgz > /usr/asdfjkl/planb4e.tgz"

-- m



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Message-ID: <6a3ae47e0811141208l7d7bc166u16b30a9aa9124381@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:08:27 +0000
From: "Robert Raschke" <rtrlists@googlemail.com>
To: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@9fans.net>,
	nolan.h.hamilton@gmail.com
In-Reply-To: <6142a1690811141150x3870668fs46b1d28f0d8d214e@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Disposition: inline
References: <6142a1690811141150x3870668fs46b1d28f0d8d214e@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [9fans] Help downloading Plan B using hget
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 42ae9d9e-ead4-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

hget -o $home/planb4e.tgz http://lsub.org/ls/export/planb4e.tgz

The man pages with Plan 9 are really good. Well worth a read.

Robby



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
MIME-version: 1.0
Message-id: <61AB623D-706D-42F9-AD17-7FDA20ADA8A5@mac.com>
From: Pietro Gagliardi <pietro10@mac.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
In-reply-to: <6142a1690811141150x3870668fs46b1d28f0d8d214e@mail.gmail.com>
Content-type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature";
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Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 15:20:48 -0500
References: <6142a1690811141150x3870668fs46b1d28f0d8d214e@mail.gmail.com>
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Subject: Re: [9fans] Help downloading Plan B using hget
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 42c6f02e-ead4-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156)
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hget is different from most other programs of its kind. It writes the
file you ask for on standard output, or the computer screen. If you
want to download a file, use one of the following:

	hget -o planb4e.tgz http://lsub.org/ls/export/planb4e.tgz
	hget http://lsub.org/ls/export/planb4e.tgz > planb4e.tgz

On Nov 14, 2008, at 2:50 PM, Nolan Hamilton wrote:

> Hello, I am a newcomer to plan 9.  I current have Plan9 installed on
> my computer, and am trying to get Plan B.
> I use "hget http://lsub.org/ls/export/planb4e.tgz"
> I just get a whole bunch of letters and numbers.
> Is this OK, or is there a problem becouse it keeps on doing this for
> a very long time.
> Also, once I have finished that, how do I save it to $home.
>
> -Nolan Hamilton


--Apple-Mail-21--721254218
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	charset=US-ASCII
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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>hget is different from =
most other programs of its kind. It writes the file you ask for on =
standard output, or the computer screen. If you want to download a file, =
use one of the following:</div><div><br></div><div><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>hget -o =
planb4e.tgz <a =
href=3D"http://lsub.org/ls/export/planb4e.tgz">http://lsub.org/ls/export/p=
lanb4e.tgz</a><br></div><div><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>hget <a =
href=3D"http://lsub.org/ls/export/planb4e.tgz">http://lsub.org/ls/export/p=
lanb4e.tgz</a> &gt; planb4e.tgz<br></div><br><div><div>On Nov 14, 2008, =
at 2:50 PM, Nolan Hamilton wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>Hello, =
I am a newcomer to plan 9.&nbsp; I current have Plan9 installed on my =
computer, and am trying to get Plan B. </div> <div>I use "hget <a =
href=3D"http://lsub.org/ls/export/planb4e.tgz">http://lsub.org/ls/export/p=
lanb4e.tgz</a>"</div> <div>I just get a whole bunch of letters and =
numbers.</div> <div>Is this OK, or is there a problem becouse it keeps =
on doing this for a very long time.</div> <div>Also, once I have =
finished that, how do I save it to $home.</div> <div>&nbsp;</div> =
<div>-Nolan Hamilton</div></blockquote></div><br></body></html>=

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From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
MIME-version: 1.0
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Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Message-id: <05170823-66DF-4A69-AD13-9CDB180A76B0@mac.com>
From: Pietro Gagliardi <pietro10@mac.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
In-reply-to: <6142a1690811141150x3870668fs46b1d28f0d8d214e@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 15:22:55 -0500
References: <6142a1690811141150x3870668fs46b1d28f0d8d214e@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [9fans] Help downloading Plan B using hget
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 42d2fefa-ead4-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

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On Nov 14, 2008, at 2:50 PM, Nolan Hamilton wrote:

> I just get a whole bunch of letters and numbers.

tgz is a compression format that uses binary data. The conversion of
binary to Unicode is why you see the numbers.

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From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Message-ID: <dd6fe68a0811141326t74071ecmc77c811145e3c371@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 13:26:57 -0800
From: "Russ Cox" <rsc@swtch.com>
To: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@9fans.net>
Subject: Re: [9fans] Help downloading Plan B using hget
In-Reply-To: <61AB623D-706D-42F9-AD17-7FDA20ADA8A5@mac.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <6142a1690811141150x3870668fs46b1d28f0d8d214e@mail.gmail.com>
	 <61AB623D-706D-42F9-AD17-7FDA20ADA8A5@mac.com>
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 42f56e54-ead4-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

> hget is different from most other programs of its kind.

depends what you mean by "its kind".
hget is similar to almost all plan 9 programs
and (not surprisingly) different from many
modern unix programs in that, by default,
it writes to standard output.

russ


From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
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Message-id: <50D22C80-D87C-44C9-9773-326206F812FC@mac.com>
From: Pietro Gagliardi <pietro10@mac.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
In-reply-to: <dd6fe68a0811141326t74071ecmc77c811145e3c371@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 16:31:21 -0500
References: <6142a1690811141150x3870668fs46b1d28f0d8d214e@mail.gmail.com>
	<61AB623D-706D-42F9-AD17-7FDA20ADA8A5@mac.com>
	<dd6fe68a0811141326t74071ecmc77c811145e3c371@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [9fans] Help downloading Plan B using hget
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 42ffb49a-ead4-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

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On Nov 14, 2008, at 4:26 PM, Russ Cox wrote:

>> hget is different from most other programs of its kind.
>
> depends what you mean by "its kind".

command line download tool; I'm comparing it to programs like wget,
curl, etc.

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From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Message-ID: <13426df10811141342n66383807k4cd5b75606216cfd@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 13:42:26 -0800
From: "ron minnich" <rminnich@gmail.com>
To: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@9fans.net>
In-Reply-To: <50D22C80-D87C-44C9-9773-326206F812FC@mac.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <6142a1690811141150x3870668fs46b1d28f0d8d214e@mail.gmail.com>
	<61AB623D-706D-42F9-AD17-7FDA20ADA8A5@mac.com>
	<dd6fe68a0811141326t74071ecmc77c811145e3c371@mail.gmail.com>
	<50D22C80-D87C-44C9-9773-326206F812FC@mac.com>
Subject: Re: [9fans] Help downloading Plan B using hget
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 43059f9a-ead4-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 1:31 PM, Pietro Gagliardi <pietro10@mac.com> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Nov 14, 2008, at 4:26 PM, Russ Cox wrote:
>
>>> hget is different from most other programs of its kind.
>>
>> depends what you mean by "its kind".
>
> command line download tool; I'm comparing it to programs like wget, curl,
> etc.
>

as Russ points out, those programs are a lot less like the original
Unix than hget. Long ago, many programs that produced output went to
stdout.

GNU tools nowadays remind me of the kind of 60s-ish programs Kernighan
used to make fun of in .... 1976 ... when he gave talks about Unix.
Plan 9 tools remind of the kind of programs Kernighan used to talk
nicely about in .... 1976 ... when he gave talks about Unix.

ah well.

Nurse! Bring my bib! And fetch my walker! I'm done here.

ron



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
From: Dave Eckhardt <davide+p9@cs.cmu.edu>
To: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@9fans.net>
In-Reply-To: <dd6fe68a0811141326t74071ecmc77c811145e3c371@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-ID: <831.1226704881.1@lunacy.ugrad.cs.cmu.edu>
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 18:21:21 -0500
Message-ID: <832.1226704881@lunacy.ugrad.cs.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: [9fans] Help downloading Plan B using hget
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 43438396-ead4-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

> hget is similar to almost all plan 9 programs
> and (not surprisingly) different from many
> modern unix programs in that, by default,
> it writes to standard output.

This may seem idiosyncratic, but it has a big benefit.

On various machines I have wget, curl, fetch, etc., and
each one has a different policy for where it puts its
output--some of them "helpfully" choose a semi-predictable
filename instead of overwriting an existing file, which is
almost always anti-helpful, because I'm generally *trying*
to overwrite the (obsolete) existing file with the new bits.
Each one helpfully provides a "no, really, name the file
this: ____" flag which will allow me to manually tell it to
put the bits where it supposedly automatically puts them,
BUT EACH ONE USES A DIFFERENT LETTER FOR THIS FUNCTION.  Is
it wget where it's -o and curl where it's -O, or the other
way around?  Whee!

In sharp contrast, the "option letter" for sending stdout to
somewhere is always the same: '>'.  By having this one feature
in the shell and *not* having it in every other program, life
is improved despite there being fewer lines of code.  How odd.

Dave Eckhardt



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
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Message-id: <17CDC3F3-B3E2-44AE-BA7A-31D2315A4DB9@mac.com>
From: Pietro Gagliardi <pietro10@mac.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
In-reply-to: <832.1226704881@lunacy.ugrad.cs.cmu.edu>
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 18:30:44 -0500
References: <832.1226704881@lunacy.ugrad.cs.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: [9fans] Help downloading Plan B using hget
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 43660fe2-ead4-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

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On Nov 14, 2008, at 6:21 PM, Dave Eckhardt wrote:

> commentary

This is because those programs use stdout for status indication, much
like hget -v. Think of wget, which is forced to use a terminal in
order to make a progress bar.

The idea is simple, and I'd like to go into more detail: the modern
UNIX programmers want to make it easier for a more general public to
use it, even at the risk of losing what UNIX was originally intended
to. Ergo, we are more like UNIX than GNU or BSD is.

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From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Message-ID: <5d375e920811141546m456b8037i627fb98eb5619834@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 00:46:17 +0100
From: Uriel <uriel99@gmail.com>
To: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@9fans.net>
In-Reply-To: <17CDC3F3-B3E2-44AE-BA7A-31D2315A4DB9@mac.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
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Content-Disposition: inline
References: <832.1226704881@lunacy.ugrad.cs.cmu.edu>
	<17CDC3F3-B3E2-44AE-BA7A-31D2315A4DB9@mac.com>
Subject: Re: [9fans] Help downloading Plan B using hget
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 436e3596-ead4-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

I wonder why was stderr invented...

uriel

On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 12:30 AM, Pietro Gagliardi <pietro10@mac.com> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Nov 14, 2008, at 6:21 PM, Dave Eckhardt wrote:
>
>> commentary
>
> This is because those programs use stdout for status indication, much like
> hget -v. Think of wget, which is forced to use a terminal in order to make a
> progress bar.
>
> The idea is simple, and I'd like to go into more detail: the modern UNIX
> programmers want to make it easier for a more general public to use it, even
> at the risk of losing what UNIX was originally intended to. Ergo, we are
> more like UNIX than GNU or BSD is.
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin)
>
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> vX0An1tEeZlmxBKXEFFG0D+MXstTGL0h
> =M4Bq
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>
>



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
MIME-version: 1.0
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Message-id: <016F1E5D-DFCA-4DA2-AC9B-9B0C20866C8C@mac.com>
From: Pietro Gagliardi <pietro10@mac.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
In-reply-to: <5d375e920811141546m456b8037i627fb98eb5619834@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 18:51:26 -0500
References: <832.1226704881@lunacy.ugrad.cs.cmu.edu>
	<17CDC3F3-B3E2-44AE-BA7A-31D2315A4DB9@mac.com>
	<5d375e920811141546m456b8037i627fb98eb5619834@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [9fans] Help downloading Plan B using hget
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 4372629c-ead4-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

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On Nov 14, 2008, at 6:46 PM, Uriel wrote:

> I wonder why was stderr invented...
>
> uriel

Oh yes, that's also something I can explain. Some programmers use the
definitions literally: "stderr is not used for a progress bar, make
stdprog."

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From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Message-ID: <599f06db0811141555t34a1c517ic44a5785e0c6b507@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 00:55:26 +0100
From: "Gorka Guardiola" <paurea@gmail.com>
To: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@9fans.net>
In-Reply-To: <832.1226704881@lunacy.ugrad.cs.cmu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <dd6fe68a0811141326t74071ecmc77c811145e3c371@mail.gmail.com>
	<832.1226704881@lunacy.ugrad.cs.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: [9fans] Help downloading Plan B using hget
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 4376ce5e-ead4-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 12:21 AM, Dave Eckhardt <davide+p9@cs.cmu.edu> wrote:
>> hget is similar to almost all plan 9 programs
>> and (not surprisingly) different from many
>> modern unix programs in that, by default,
>> it writes to standard output.
>
> This may seem idiosyncratic, but it has a big benefit.
>
> On various machines I have wget, curl, fetch, etc., and

Not completely true. Curl works as expected, I use it regularly.

curl http://lsub.org > b.html
  % Total    % Received % Xferd  Average Speed   Time    Time     Time  Current
                                 Dload  Upload   Total   Spent    Left  Speed
100  6623  100  6623    0     0  20232      0 --:--:-- --:--:-- --:--:-- 41393
mymachine:/tmp paurea$ cat b.html
<html>
<head>
etc...
--
- curiosity sKilled the cat



From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Message-ID: <5d375e920811141622v794ffc6bje18388c85380143b@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 01:22:09 +0100
From: Uriel <uriel99@gmail.com>
To: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@9fans.net>
In-Reply-To: <016F1E5D-DFCA-4DA2-AC9B-9B0C20866C8C@mac.com>
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References: <832.1226704881@lunacy.ugrad.cs.cmu.edu>
	<17CDC3F3-B3E2-44AE-BA7A-31D2315A4DB9@mac.com>
	<5d375e920811141546m456b8037i627fb98eb5619834@mail.gmail.com>
	<016F1E5D-DFCA-4DA2-AC9B-9B0C20866C8C@mac.com>
Subject: Re: [9fans] Help downloading Plan B using hget
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 437f1a5a-ead4-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

Maybe those programmers should learn a bit more about the system they
are working with before making such presumptions... but then, since
the days of Berkeley kids mixing LSD with cat's flags, seems that all
regard for the unix style has been forgotten in the race to add more
'features' and implement more standards.

uriel

On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 12:51 AM, Pietro Gagliardi <pietro10@mac.com> wrote:
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> On Nov 14, 2008, at 6:46 PM, Uriel wrote:
>
>> I wonder why was stderr invented...
>>
>> uriel
>
> Oh yes, that's also something I can explain. Some programmers use the
> definitions literally: "stderr is not used for a progress bar, make
> stdprog."
>
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From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
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Message-id: <BE9A08B1-8CB0-449B-8190-53AEF8F2693E@mac.com>
From: Pietro Gagliardi <pietro10@mac.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
In-reply-to: <5d375e920811141622v794ffc6bje18388c85380143b@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 19:36:40 -0500
References: <832.1226704881@lunacy.ugrad.cs.cmu.edu>
	<17CDC3F3-B3E2-44AE-BA7A-31D2315A4DB9@mac.com>
	<5d375e920811141546m456b8037i627fb98eb5619834@mail.gmail.com>
	<016F1E5D-DFCA-4DA2-AC9B-9B0C20866C8C@mac.com>
	<5d375e920811141622v794ffc6bje18388c85380143b@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: [9fans] Thank you (was Re:  Help downloading Plan B using hget)
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 4383f372-ead4-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

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In a short few hours I have learned to appreciate Plan 9 more.

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From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Message-ID: <6142a1690811141810s49dcfaaah6e3ec1b507b5eb8c@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 16:10:53 -1000
From: "Nolan Hamilton" <nolan.h.hamilton@gmail.com>
To: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@9fans.net>
In-Reply-To: <5d375e920811141622v794ffc6bje18388c85380143b@mail.gmail.com>
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References: <832.1226704881@lunacy.ugrad.cs.cmu.edu>
	<17CDC3F3-B3E2-44AE-BA7A-31D2315A4DB9@mac.com>
	<5d375e920811141546m456b8037i627fb98eb5619834@mail.gmail.com>
	<016F1E5D-DFCA-4DA2-AC9B-9B0C20866C8C@mac.com>
	<5d375e920811141622v794ffc6bje18388c85380143b@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [9fans] Help downloading Plan B using hget
Topicbox-Message-UUID: 438abfd6-ead4-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025

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Thanks I can use hget now, everything works fine.-Nolan Hamilton

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Thanks I can use hget now, everything works fine.<div>-Nolan Hamilton<br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div></div>

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