I may be biased, but still sure some general flavor of Comeau for Pla= n 9 could be a near term and not expensive endeavor (though it depends upon o= nes definition of inexpensive too I guess). And Qt definitely has its p= lace in the world.

- Greg

= --Apple-Mail-1-65891228-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: To: 9fans@9fans.net From: Lucio De Re Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 19:56:08 +0200 In-Reply-To: <40957748-5D32-49BC-AA46-FE94396DB788@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [9fans] nix at lsub Topicbox-Message-UUID: 78abd33c-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 > I may be biased, but still sure some general flavor of Comeau for > Plan 9 could be a near term and not expensive endeavor (though it > depends upon ones definition of inexpensive too I guess). And Qt > definitely has its place in the world. I've bought the Go faith lock, stock and barrel, to mix a couple of metaphors. And I like Go specifically because its core belief is that it is high time conventions were tossed out the window. I am actually quite frustrated because I feel that evolution in the IT field is taking a path of least resistance (I have occasionally pressed Russ Cox to relent on the policy of minimal change in the Go toolchain, I seldom, if ever, won on principle) and wish "I had words like a hammer" to promote a much more aggressive approach to do what is right rather than what is expedient. I'd like to mention, for example, the idea expressed here that a $35 device will give you 3D capabilities. Sure, but the same $35 could give you considerably more and accepting what's on offer is, in my opinion, wimping out. Maybe I can immodestly (and probably untruthfully) say that _I_ could do better than that and that so could many others in this forum and we are all compelled to sacrifice our possible contributions to a better world by those in the industry that know how to manipulate our gratification sensors. I could list many examples (and so no doubt could each one of us here) of benefits whose real cost is much higher than the amount of dollars being spent on them. In some respects I am fortunate: I live in an old Apartheid-built small town in South Africa and the digital divide is so obvious here, yet there is no real cause for it. But I don't have the skill to express how infuriating it all is... What I'm looking for is to replace obsolescence with efficiency: 3000 pupils in my immediate vicinity could enjoy much better access to the Internet (_any_ access to the Internet) if I could deploy KA9Q over MSDOS as the primary software on 8088 based computers. I know this because back in 1992 I had precisely that hardware serving single dial-up connections from a small community of BBSers. These children don't need pr0n or video clips, Facebook or twitter, they need text access, e-mail, the much maligned and damaged e-news, just as I found them useful back in the very early 1990s. But we are stealing that from them by moving the entry bar ever higher so that our obsolete computers and our mobile phones with dead batteries and incompatible SIM cards, VGA monitors, memory simms and all manners of perfectly useful IT equipment cannot conceivably be deployed to improve their standard of living and their ability to catch up. What I'm looking for is the community that is savvy enough to embrace new technology and caring enough to propagate their gains to those who do not have the same access to that technology instead of making sure of the opposite. I don't believe that there is a conflict, in fact, I think that's the only option open to us, I'm just waving its flag a little ahead of the tsunami. And that tsunami includes Go, Plan 9, possibly Android, vx32 and Raspberry Pie. I pray that I'm not just a crazy visionary. Anyway, sorry to rant like this, I don't even know if it made me feel any better to do it, I do hope that some of you will see things from my perspective and perhaps my feelings will resonate with your own. Lucio. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: <40957748-5D32-49BC-AA46-FE94396DB788@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 14:05:51 -0400 Message-ID: From: Comeau At9Fans To: lucio@proxima.alt.za, Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f643bf2b5b66304be0c05cf Subject: Re: [9fans] nix at lsub Topicbox-Message-UUID: 78b233ee-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 --e89a8f643bf2b5b66304be0c05cf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 1:56 PM, Lucio De Re wrote: > > I may be biased, but still sure some general flavor of Comeau for > > Plan 9 could be a near term and not expensive endeavor (though it > > depends upon ones definition of inexpensive too I guess). And Qt > > definitely has its place in the world. > > I've bought the Go faith lock, stock and barrel, to mix a couple of > metaphors. And I like Go specifically because its core belief is that > it is high time conventions were tossed out the window. I am actually > quite frustrated because I feel that evolution in the IT field is > taking a path of least resistance (I have occasionally pressed Russ > Cox to relent on the policy of minimal change in the Go toolchain, I > seldom, if ever, won on principle) and wish "I had words like a > hammer" to promote a much more aggressive approach to do what is right > rather than what is expedient. > IMO, there is nothing generally wrong with taking the path of least resistence, so long as open is open minded and also so long as it is not the only path being considered. > I'd like to mention, for example, the idea expressed here that a $35 > device will give you 3D capabilities. Sure, but the same $35 could > give you considerably more and accepting what's on offer is, in my > opinion, wimping out. Maybe I can immodestly (and probably > untruthfully) say that _I_ could do better than that and that so could > many others in this forum and we are all compelled to sacrifice our > possible contributions to a better world by those in the industry that > know how to manipulate our gratification sensors. > > I could list many examples (and so no doubt could each one of us here) > of benefits whose real cost is much higher than the amount of dollars > being spent on them. In some respects I am fortunate: I live in an > old Apartheid-built small town in South Africa and the digital divide > is so obvious here, yet there is no real cause for it. But I don't > have the skill to express how infuriating it all is... > > What I'm looking for is to replace obsolescence with efficiency: 3000 > pupils in my immediate vicinity could enjoy much better access to the > Internet (_any_ access to the Internet) if I could deploy KA9Q over > MSDOS as the primary software on 8088 based computers. I know this > because back in 1992 I had precisely that hardware serving single > dial-up connections from a small community of BBSers. These children > don't need pr0n or video clips, Facebook or twitter, they need text > access, e-mail, the much maligned and damaged e-news, just as I found > them useful back in the very early 1990s. But we are stealing that > from them by moving the entry bar ever higher so that our obsolete > computers and our mobile phones with dead batteries and incompatible > SIM cards, VGA monitors, memory simms and all manners of perfectly > useful IT equipment cannot conceivably be deployed to improve their > standard of living and their ability to catch up. > Understood. > What I'm looking for is the community that is savvy enough to embrace > new technology and caring enough to propagate their gains to those who > do not have the same access to that technology instead of making sure > of the opposite. I don't believe that there is a conflict, in fact, I > think that's the only option open to us, I'm just waving its flag a > little ahead of the tsunami. And that tsunami includes Go, Plan 9, > possibly Android, vx32 and Raspberry Pie. I pray that I'm not just a > crazy visionary. > Why not pray that you *are* a crazy visionary? :) > Anyway, sorry to rant like this, I don't even know if it made me feel > any better to do it, I do hope that some of you will see things from > my perspective and perhaps my feelings will resonate with your own. > > Lucio. > > > -- Greg Comeau / 4.3.10.1 with C++0xisms now in beta! Comeau C/C++ ONLINE ==> http://www.comeaucomputing.com/tryitout World Class Compilers: Breathtaking C++, Amazing C99, Fabulous C90. Comeau C/C++ with Dinkumware's Libraries... Have you tried it? --e89a8f643bf2b5b66304be0c05cf Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 1:56 PM, Lucio De Re <lucio@proxima.al= t.za> wrote:

> I may be biased, but still sure some general flavor = of Comeau for
> Plan 9 could be a near term and not expensive endeavo= r (though it
> depends upon ones definition of inexpensive too I gues= s). =A0And Qt
> definitely has its place in the world.

I've bought th= e Go faith lock, stock and barrel, to mix a couple of
metaphors. =A0And = I like Go specifically because its core belief is that
it is high time c= onventions were tossed out the window. =A0I am actually
quite frustrated because I feel that evolution in the IT field is
taking= a path of least resistance (I have occasionally pressed Russ
Cox to rel= ent on the policy of minimal change in the Go toolchain, I
seldom, if ev= er, won on principle) and wish "I had words like a
hammer" to promote a much more aggressive approach to do what is right=
rather than what is expedient.

=A0

IMO, there is nothing generally wrong with taking the path of least re= sistence, so long as open is open minded and also so long as it is not the = only path being considered.

=A0

I'd like to mention, for example,= the idea expressed here that a $35
device will give you 3D capabilities= . =A0Sure, but the same $35 could
give you considerably more and accepting what's on offer is, in my
o= pinion, wimping out. =A0Maybe I can immodestly (and probably
untruthfull= y) say that _I_ could do better than that and that so could
many others = in this forum and we are all compelled to sacrifice our
possible contributions to a better world by those in the industry that
k= now how to manipulate our gratification sensors.

I could list many e= xamples (and so no doubt could each one of us here)
of benefits whose re= al cost is much higher than the amount of dollars
being spent on them. =A0In some respects I am fortunate: I live in an
ol= d Apartheid-built small town in South Africa and the digital divide
is s= o obvious here, yet there is no real cause for it. =A0But I don't
ha= ve the skill to express how infuriating it all is...

What I'm looking for is to replace obsolescence with efficiency: 30= 00
pupils in my immediate vicinity could enjoy much better access to the=
Internet (_any_ access to the Internet) if I could deploy KA9Q over
MSDOS as the primary software on 8088 based computers. =A0I know this
be= cause back in 1992 I had precisely that hardware serving single
dial-up = connections from a small community of BBSers. =A0These children
don'= t need pr0n or video clips, Facebook or twitter, they need text
access, e-mail, the much maligned and damaged e-news, just as I found
th= em useful back in the very early 1990s. =A0But we are stealing that
from= them by moving the entry bar ever higher so that our obsolete
computers= and our mobile phones with dead batteries and incompatible
SIM cards, VGA monitors, memory simms and all manners of perfectly
usefu= l IT equipment cannot conceivably be deployed to improve their
standard = of living and their ability to catch up.

Understood.

=A0

What I'm looking for is the commu= nity that is savvy enough to embrace
new technology and caring enough to= propagate their gains to those who
do not have the same access to that technology instead of making sure
of= the opposite. =A0I don't believe that there is a conflict, in fact, I<= br>think that's the only option open to us, I'm just waving its fla= g a
little ahead of the tsunami. =A0And that tsunami includes Go, Plan 9,
po= ssibly Android, vx32 and Raspberry Pie. =A0I pray that I'm not just acrazy visionary.

Why not pray that you *are* a crazy visionary? :)

=A0

Anyway, sorry to rant like this, I do= n't even know if it made me feel
any better to do it, I do hope that= some of you will see things from
my perspective and perhaps my feelings will resonate with your own.

Lucio.

Greg Comeau / 4.3.10.1 with C++0xisms now in beta!

Comeau C/C++ ONLINE =3D=3D> =A0 =A0 http://www.comeaucomputing.com/tryit= out

World Class Compilers: =A0Breathtaking C++, Amazing C99, Fabulous C90.=

Comeau C/C++ with Dinkumware's Libraries... Have you tried it?
--e89a8f643bf2b5b66304be0c05cf-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: <407b661b3cf85471a21f52303e8f0167@proxima.alt.za> To: 9fans@9fans.net From: Lucio De Re Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 20:23:22 +0200 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [9fans] nix at lsub Topicbox-Message-UUID: 78b82c36-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 > IMO, there is nothing generally wrong with taking the path of least > resistence, so long as open is open minded and also so long as it is not > the only path being considered. Except that by definition the path of least resistance is the only one of its type. You buy the reason, you paint yourself in the corner. I do grant that one may choose the path of least resistance for reasons other than the ostensible one, but I doubt that would be anything more than an accident. Can you see where my reasonaing takes me? ++L From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Message-ID: To: 9fans@9fans.net From: Lucio De Re Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 20:27:30 +0200 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [9fans] nix at lsub Topicbox-Message-UUID: 78bf39c2-ead7-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 > Why not pray that you *are* a crazy visionary? :) Too many years of logic, I'm a very rational materialist. But thank you for the suggestion, it gave me reason to smile. I do get plenty, in their lack of technical sophistication , my "previously disadvantaged" neighbours have a great deal of warmth and friendship to share. All the more reason for me to wish to help them. ++L