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[85.230.201.173]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h17sm153897ljg.131.2021.09.04.00.17.31 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 04 Sep 2021 00:17:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2021 09:17:29 +0200 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Sigrid_Solveig_Hafl=EDnud=F3ttir?= To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>, Lucio De Re Subject: Re: [9fans] 9hybrid on T61 - work in progress (small beginnings?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <64828D81-68F5-4155-B26F-49C45EEBFCA0@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: 2f8c0a26-0d50-11ec-b018-91bbfec244bc Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UZmY3ZWMzYjdmMTExNDI4Ni1NYjMyZjg1NWE3ZDFhMzRjOWFjY2Y1?= =?UTF-8?B?OTA3Pg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:Mb32f855a7d1a34c9accf5907:1:e5j77xUo_VXWVP5l8tvc2RIydXJKnB-oSyx8mgnWRlU On 4 September 2021 08:27:21 CEST, Lucio De Re wrote: > The combination of (IBM/Lenovo ThinkPad) T60 chassis and T61 mother > board is known as FrankenPad, I learnt since I bought a none too well > refurbished Lenovo T61 7659-CTO laptop for a moderate price. I had > long wished I could get a T61, so that was some impulsive buying. >=20 > Maybe I should have spent the money (my guess is around $ 100 US) on a > brand new Raspberry Pi I've also been wishing for, but I could not > resist. >=20 > The 9front fraternity may be pleased to hear that this new addition to > my stable of obsolete equipment is currently capable of running both > 32-bit and 64-bit versions of 9front - I just realised I'll need to > compile executables for both architectures indefinitely, I wonder how > many times that will bite me? >=20 > To run under 32 bits I resorted to network booting (from my long > suffering traditional Plan 9 network server), but that won't load the > 64-bit kernel, complaining that it is too big. I tried compressing it, > but netbooting no longer supports compression. I paired down the > kernel a bit, but seemingly not enough. I presume 9front has ways to > netboot a 64-bit kernel, but it isn't critical, yet - it would just > fill what is a rather obvious hole that 9front and 9legacy (for want > of a more suitable moniker - 9pf doesn't seem right) seem to suffer > from differently. >=20 > And, yes, this could be the start of a long, offline whinge about > differences, I have long evolved a flameproof skin for this particular > purpose. But first, let me tell my cautionary tale, it was quite an > adventure and I am happy to act as proxy for those who may want to go > in a similar direction. >=20 > I had the idea to install both 9front and 9legacy on the T61 and > thought I might run cwfs in the former case after discovering then > that 9front has enhanced cwfs - which I have never used, but did for a > long time use kenfs standalone - so I followed their lead for that. > For 9legacy, I'm fine with fossil/venti, it has saved my bacon a few > times and I respect its capabilities fully. >=20 > So, where should I have started? Obviously, this being the > non-deterministic world of New Computing (TM), I followed my head and > installed 9front - no one argues that it is the one most likely to > work on a T61. >=20 > I can't quite recall how, but I managed to do something that in > retrospect was not a great idea: I set up two Plan 9 primary > partitions using Linux Mint off a USB stick - Windows was just not an > option, in my experience, for editing partition tables. I left Windows > 7 Professional installed, but shrank the partition to a safe, much > smaller size - that left some scar tissue, incidentally, but > irrelevant to this tale. >=20 > The 9front installation completed without any memorable trouble and I > left the boot loader unchanged (as instructed). Somehow, boot > selection didn't work as I wished and I blamed the double partition > for my woes. Time to start again, this time with the 9legacy bootstrap > that I was in any case more comfortable with and only one, combined > Plan 9 partition. It looks as if 9front used the same partitioning > scheme as 9legacy. >=20 > I got some idea of partition allocations to "other", "fscache" and > "fsworm" from a recent disk/prep display, so I decided to configure > the drive with fossil and venti partitions, leaving enough space for > 9front, when I would eventually re-install it. >=20 > The 9legacy installation almost, almost worked. I assigned half the > plan9 partition to fossil, arenas, isect and bloom and left space for > 9front. I assumed that nvram and 9fat would need to be shared. >=20 > Except I got some spurious errors in the very last stage of writing > the bootstrap loader and what looked like an otherwise happy > installation simply could not be completed. I could not get past the > final stage of 9legacy installation. The complaint was that 9fat could > not be created, or perhaps something could not be written to that > partition - from memory, it was the error one encounters after a > server connection has failed. At that point only a reboot made sense > to me. >=20 > Of course, rebooting with the plan9 partition active didn't do > anything useful. It's likely that this is when I also discovered that > the Windows partitions were no longer recognised as bootable. That > lost me the Windows recovery capability on the drive, but that was > never an essential, no regrets. >=20 > With a partially complete 9legacy installation, the time had come to > see what 9front was good for. So I repeated that installation. When > the time came to allocate disk space, however, 9front installation had > no record of the previous content of the plan9 partition. As I had > started to keep track of such things, I just proceeded with manual > partitioning (not as wisely as I imagined, I am only now discovering). >=20 > I set up all the partitions I could think of - and made a few > judgemental mistakes, it turns out, but I didn't notice, so I could > actually continue. >=20 > The completed 9front installation this time included the 9front boot > loader - which I will have to become more familar with, for obvious > reasons. I have accepted that Windows will require special attention > and will almost certainly not get it any time soon. >=20 > With a working 9front installation, I was a lot more confident, ready > to try 9legacy once more. If I made any additional preparations at > this point, I do not remember them. >=20 > Once again, 9legacy installation (fossil+venti) proceeded as expected, > with manual disk preparation, using the space left by 9front. The > installation had respected the previous settings, which needed some > manual rearrangement. >=20 > Once again, after a successful run, the penultimate step reported the > same 9fat trouble and the last step simply failed altogether, just > like before. >=20 > Now, with a working 9front (32-bit) installation known to be working, > thinking that I had sound foundations in place, I proceeded to do some > post-installation configuration of the 9front system. >=20 > It took a separate adventure to update the sources and regenerate the > system including the amd64 version. The details also raise some > issues, so expect a separate report for that. Small tweaks to > plan9.ini - thank you, Stanley - allowed me to switch to the newer, > more appropriate architecture, which is what I'm running now. >=20 > I have had a netboot system in place just about forever and I thought > I would use that to get past my lack of familiarity with 9front > booting to be able to switch between 64-bit and 32-bit 9front and > plausibly also 9legacy without a working boot loader and a suitable > plan9.ini configuration. >=20 > I think I mentioned that the Plan 9 bootloader refuses to work with > the 64-bit kernel (that may be my error, in that I have no idea how > the switch in architectures is likely to take place and where). It > loads the 32-bit kernels adequately, so that it is possible for me to > run normally under amd64 9front, with the 386 option available on > demand. >=20 > I can load the 9legacy kernel this way too, but it fails to access the > SATA drive and fails quite miserably. If I boot off CD, though, using > 9pcflop, I can access the 9legacy system and start both venti and > fossil. I can also edit the 9fat partition, so that is food for > thought. Venti works on 9front as well. For now, while the arenas are > completely empty, the behaviour of venti is consistent across these > flavours. >=20 > In the long run, I'd like the two flavours (9front and 9legacy) to be > both bootable in the available architectures (386 and amd64) and to be > able to access each other's file systems at all times. That seems > possible if fossil can be ported to 9front and cwfs64x to 9legacy - I > haven't looked for such options yet, not while 9legacy is not an > option. >=20 > How other flavours (9atom, nix, etc.) can then be shoehorned into such > a single ecosystem is a much more complex matter to resolve. >=20 > There are many questions raised as a result of the efforts described > above, I'll try to formulate them so that they can be resolved > objectively. Private mail with suggestions, comments, insults and > praise will be entertained as best I can. >=20 > Lucio. And what exactly do you need 9legacy for if 9front just works? Fossil can be built, installed, and used under 9front. It's just that no on= e seem to support fossil (as in, fix bugs). Venti on 9front got a bunch of = bug fixes recently, otoh. I am pretty sure 9legacy will copy the patch if n= ot already. ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tff7ec3b7f1114286-Mb32f8= 55a7d1a34c9accf5907 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription