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Wed, 15 May 2024 09:59:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.11.0-alpha0-455-g0aad06e44-fm-20240509.001-g0aad06e4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <65a54c1e-d042-49f2-9060-9c19a5154916@app.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <4FB3A3BB-1CFA-4BC7-9DC2-CC9138B8325C@gmail.com> <2f1ad69b-1318-4230-a40f-48bbafab81f3@app.fastmail.com> Date: Wed, 15 May 2024 22:58:45 +0900 From: vic.thacker@fastmail.fm To: "leimy2k via 9fans" <9fans@9fans.net> Subject: Re: Clarifying Lucio's Additional Requests [Was: Re: [9fans] List of companies that use Plan 9. ] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: 4ee4de36-12c3-11ef-a9aa-ff2cff8b7b06 Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UOWJmNDBlOTQ0OGM4NzhhYi1NY2M3ODQ5NzMxZDVhM2E2OWEzYzQ2?= =?UTF-8?B?NGM2Pg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:Mcc7849731d5a3a69a3c464c6:1:WbEfEZTvcrpgRVF_Thjn-uSbbK5OSAsFlo4aPV_EPrI On Wed, May 15, 2024, at 17:38, sirjofri wrote: > Hey vic, ... > Write your mails. Write them, don't send them. Read them again=20 > carefully and think about the people reading it. They most likely=20 > understand as much as you, and they have all the track record of=20 > earlier discussions, so they very likely understand more than you.=20 > Things are as they are for a reason. Not always for a good reason, but=20 > for a reason. After thinking about your mail and the recipient, you may=20 > revise/rewrite your mail or just throw it away. > > Last, we're not a company. People who do the work are the ones=20 > organizing. Those people don't like to see strangers organizing their=20 > stuff without any contribution. If you can write software, try to=20 > organize yourself and give something back to the community. Hunt for=20 > bugs and fix them, or write tools that helps people, or improve the=20 > documentation. This should help the community much more than top-level=20 > organization when there is no top-level. Thanks, Sirjofri, I really appreciate your message.=20 I'll keep things more casual in this message. I didn't use Strunk & White, = which would have really annoyed people, but I agree that my posts have been= rushed and barely revised. I wanted to classify the topics to see if anyone was already working on the= m as it wasn't apparent. Some developers can be very territorial, and I did= n't want to step into a mess. My plan was to ask around next. I see that t= he current team is very happy with the status quo.=20=20=20=20=20 If the hacker culture rules are necessary, I'm definitely not a good fit. I= should step aside to avoid being disruptive. I've been programming for a l= ong time, and I work in a very different manner. I'd rather avoid the drama= I've experienced the past few days. I can only imagine the hell it must be= to contribute. I don't mean that in an offensive way, but I'm just looking= back on the hazing that has been happening. **heavy sigh**=20 I was told this is a flat model, yet I see there is a meritocracy and outda= ted rules as well as too much hazing occurring. Hazing alone is enough to o= ff put someone. I surmise there is too much entitlement occurring which res= ults in both hazing and a cancel culture. I am not trying to persuade you = or anyone on 9fans, but rather I just want to show you what I see. I've wo= rked on 160 million USD projects and have needed to fix personnel issues. = I know this is not a company, but anyone that cannot see there are issues h= ere has their head in the sand. I hope you take my comments as constructive= . The intention of my comments to make things better.=20 =20 You've helped me see that I'm not a good cultural fit, which is good to kno= w early.=20 Again, thank you very much for your advice. Let me share a letter with you= that I wrote to Bakul and then I'll leave 9fans.=20 Thank you and goodbye.=20 Hi Bakul, Thanks for reaching out. I trust you are well.=20 I have my own personal Plan 9 distribution that I have been using=20 for years, circa 2006. 9legacy and 9front are great, but I find it=20 challenging to contribute. However, the 9legacy community has=20 been much more friendly and helpful as you can imagine. I am=20 grateful for past help. Whenever I witness the challenges faced between 9legacy and=20 9front communities, I can't help but feel responsible. Looking back, I see that my youthful inexperience played a role=20 in deepening the rift between Plan 9 and what would become=20 9front. At the time, I failed to bridge the gap between influential=20 opposition members, such as Uriel and 20h, and the foundational=20 members of the community, like Russ Cox and others. Now, as I=20 contemplate my legacy, my goal was to somehow mend the=20 division and foster unity among the communities before my time=20 ends. I think I could have prevented the need for 9front years ago=20 and the community would had been in a better state today. That=20 is my biggest regret that I have. That is one reason why I isolate myself. I am just not a good mediator nor communicator. Sadly, I don't have what it takes to bridge the gap. I think that my=20 idea of mending the communities is too grand. Also, I'm saddened=20 to see the more I try to help the worse the situation becomes.=20 Kind regards, Vic ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T9bf40e9448c878ab-Mcc784= 9731d5a3a69a3c464c6 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription