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Tue, 28 May 2024 20:32:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6CF300A17E86168075C422519C7A1A24@eigenstate.org> To: 9fans@9fans.net Subject: Re: [9fans] Throwing in the Towel Date: Tue, 28 May 2024 23:32:39 -0400 From: ori@eigenstate.org In-Reply-To: <8169.1716949347@lunacy.ugrad.cs.cmu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: 0e2d634a-1d6d-11ef-9d13-c3895cc458cd Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UMmNhNjc0ODZjN2ExM2E3Ny1NMDc2Mjk3ODE2YzhhMzBkMTVlNjcz?= =?UTF-8?B?NjhmPg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:M076297816c8a30d15e67368f:1:aYffW0dSyyCLLG8WwmkdLVAc_93BsLtgaBw_VUlNogY Finally,. SSDs just die over time. Especially if they are not powered on and refreshing. JEDEC specs say that they should retain data for 1 year unplugged when stored at 30 degrees celsius, assuming the internet isn't lying to me. Keep backups. Quoth Dave Eckhardt : > > For the napkin calculation: On disk, the IEntry is 38Bytes. Alas, > > writes occur always in (the ssd internal) blocksize. So, essentially > > (assuming 4096 byte blocksize, which is quite optimistic), we have > > a write efficiency of less than 1 percent. >=20 > While I see how such a model can predict disaster, I don't think that > model matches how FTLs work, because it can't. >=20 > Many file systems (FAT, ext2/3/4) write the same logical block over > and over and over and over and over. I think the default interval > for ext4 to synch the superblock and the journal is five seconds, > which if true is more than 15,000 times every *day* for a busy > file system (and I think lots of Linux systems are busy in that > sense). >=20 > > A good firmware in the ssd could avoid needing a new block for the > > write, if all bits are changed in teh same direction by the new > > data. >=20 > Again, I believe this model predicts that no regular Linux file > system can be used on any SSD, thus I believe this model is not > accurate. >=20 > To quote Wikipedia: >=20 > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory_controller >=20 > > The mapping units of an FTL can differ so that LBAs are mapped > > block-, page- or even sub-page-based. Depending on the usage > > pattern, a finer mapping granularity can significantly reduce > > the flash wear out and maximize the endurance of a flash based > > storage media. >=20 > Also, I feel as if this point is several assumption layers deep. > I think one user reported an unknown number of failures in two > sets of SSDs of unknown brand and model. I don't think we know > that it was venti SSDs that went bad as opposed to fossil SSDs, > let alone knowing it was index SSDs for venti. >=20 > > It seems, venti in its current form is a ssd killer, if they > > are used for the isects. >=20 > I don't think this claim is yet supported well. >=20 > Dave Eckhardt ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T2ca67486c7a13a77-M07629= 7816c8a30d15e67368f Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription