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Sat, 29 Jan 2022 04:30:27 -0800 Message-ID: <6d32f5c3-88fe-74c2-199d-dad448d28511@fjrhome.net> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2022 07:30:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.5.1 Subject: Re: [9fans] building blocks speaking 9p Content-Language: en-US To: 9fans@9fans.net References: <0dcffcf1-371b-efd8-b0cf-4236af7f9185@fjrhome.net> From: "Frank D. Engel, Jr." In-Reply-To: <0dcffcf1-371b-efd8-b0cf-4236af7f9185@fjrhome.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Exim-Id: 6d32f5c3-88fe-74c2-199d-dad448d28511 X-Bayes-Prob: 0.9999 (Score 4, tokens from: base:default, @@RPTN) X-CanIt-Geo: No geolocation information available for 192.168.101.1 X-CanItPRO-Stream: base:default X-Canit-Stats-ID: 016MAuH8D - 2ed035a28b1e - 20220129 X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 192.168.101.82 X-Originating-IP: 192.168.101.82 Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: 4b8a4be8-80ff-11ec-933f-97e9ea1e582a Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UYTRlNTg0YTM3M2IwNTU1My1NMDZiNTAzODBhNjAzZDMwMzdhOTcz?= =?UTF-8?B?YTM3Pg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:M06b50380a603d3037a973a37:1:-k9CalrmC4RclI7H6OmDCqwoa4_YciSrG16a8FxbIAU Ok, sorry for the triple-post, but since I can't seem to find that man=20 page or usb/ether on my 9front install, I should probably provide my source: http://man.cat-v.org/plan_9/4/usb On 1/29/22 7:14 AM, Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote: > Evidently there are two major standards: > > CDC, an official USB standard - specifications here:=20 > https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/CDC_EEM10.pdf > > RNDIS, a proprietary Microsoft protocol that Linux also provides=20 > drivers for: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNDIS > > > The man page for usb/ether on plan9 indicates that CDC support is=20 > already there but has not been tested; it may be that a good starting=20 > point is in place and getting this tested would provide the required=20 > support on the host side of things? > > > On 1/29/22 6:56 AM, Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote: >> Apparently Linux includes drivers for tunneling IP over a USB=20 >> connection (possibly to support mobile phones?=C2=A0 not sure...) >> >> Making host drivers compatible with these (if not already available)=20 >> to share an IP stack and creating the equivalent device-side support=20 >> for the "blocks" would allow 9P to be tunneled not only from these=20 >> devices but also from other existing solutions in a wider variety of=20 >> ways, also making it easier to connect those devices to Linux as=20 >> there are ways to talk 9P from there. >> >> That may open up some additional flexibility? >> >> >> On 1/29/22 4:16 AM, Skip Tavakkolian wrote: >>> I've been working on something along those lines for IoT management >>> and networking. Here's my laundry list of architectural and >>> implementation pieces: >>> >>> 1. authentication: (a) tie devices to owner/user (b) authenticate >>> users against third parties (via OIDC/SAML2, etc), (c) let the >>> authenticated user provide the credentials to authenticate and use >>> their devices via a namespace that follows an established convention >>> (e.g. /joe/iot/0/secret). >>> 2. device and capability discovery is a bootstrapping process, >>> starting with a namespace that describes the availability of devices >>> and features (analogous to '#c/drivers') >>> 3. namespace to discover how to present the data from a particular >>> source (e.g. a steam gauge widget would need to understand the >>> namespace exported by a pressure sensor) >>> 4. 9p libraries including fan-in, fan-out capability (i.e. mount, >>> 9pserve) for FreeRTOS, Mbed OS,=C2=A0 ThreadX, Zephyr >>> 5. libraries to localize user=E2=86=94device 9p traffic, while keeping >>> authentication centralized (e.g. how @tailscale works) >>> >>> Initially IoT's would 9p-enable the SPI, I=C2=B2C, etc. sensors and >>> actuators, until standards and conventions are established. >>> >>> For hardware, targeting things like SAMD21 boards seem more >>> appropriate; they're cheap (e.g. Seeed XIAO). Even things like Nordic >>> nRF52840 boards are below $10 and include the hardware to establish >>> root-of-trust. >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 2:58 PM Bakul Shah wrote: >>>> The idea: >>>> - make it very easy to create hardware gadgets by >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0 providing a firmware/hardware building block that >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0 talks 9p on the host interface side & interfaces >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0 with device specific hardware. >>>> >>>> - use a "universal" 9p driver on the host side that >>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0 allows access to any such 9p device even from a shell. >>>> >>>> - provide a standard way to find out device capabilities. >>>> >>>> - together they provide a plug-and-play setup. >>>> >>>> Example: connect an LED and a current sensor to this >>>> 9p device, other necessary hardware, add a few config >>>> bits and plug this device kn]]into a host. Now you should >>>> be able to turn on/off the light or sense its state. >>>> >>>> Similarly you should be able to control a stepper motor >>>> servo, cameras, microphones, other actuators, sensors, >>>> IO etc. Eventually you should be able to snap together >>>> enough of these components to build larger assemblies >>>> such as a 3D printer. >>>> >>>> Another example: a "hub" to multiplex such downstream >>>> devices and make them available to a host. >>>> >>>> This will probably have to ride on USB first. A verilog >>>> implementation would be useful in an FPGA! >>>> >>>> Would this be a useful component? If such a thing were >>>> available, what would you want to build with it? >>>> >>>> Do you think 9p is the right protocol for this? >>>> >>>> Ideally >>>> - connect anything to anything >>>> - authenticated connections >>>> - drive the device through a shell script >>>> - no new low level drivers >>>> - self-identifying devices with help and command syntax >>>> - signicantly eases the task of creating new h/w devices. >>> ------------------------------------------ >>> 9fans: 9fans >>> Permalink:=20 >>> https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Ta4e584a373b05553-M79ef31466316= e414d50336d2 >>> Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription >>> ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Ta4e584a373b05553-M06b50= 380a603d3037a973a37 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription