[9fans] 9base-3

[9fans] 9base-3

[Anselm R Garbe]

Hi there,

I revived the 9base project which was asleep for nearly 3 years som
days ago and created a new version based on Russ' plan9port from
20090731. You can download it from:

  http://code.suckless.org/dl/tools/9base-3.tar.gz

its project page can be found at:

  http://tools.suckless.org/9base

and you can also clone it using mercurial as follow:

  hg clone http://hg.suckless.org/9base

Kind regards,
Anselm

Re: [9fans] 9base-3

[Roman Shaposhnik]

On Aug 6, 2009, at 1:08 PM, Anselm R Garbe wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> I revived the 9base project which was asleep for nearly 3 years som
> days ago and created a new version based on Russ' plan9port from
> 20090731. You can download it from:
>
>  http://code.suckless.org/dl/tools/9base-3.tar.gz
>
> its project page can be found at:
>
>  http://tools.suckless.org/9base
>
> and you can also clone it using mercurial as follow:
>
>  hg clone http://hg.suckless.org/9base

So, is this just a slimmer version of plan9port?

Thanks,
Roman.

Re: [9fans] 9base-3

[Anselm R Garbe]

2009/8/7 Roman Shaposhnik <rvs@sun.com>:
> On Aug 6, 2009, at 1:08 PM, Anselm R Garbe wrote:
>
>> Hi there,
>>
>> I revived the 9base project which was asleep for nearly 3 years som
>> days ago and created a new version based on Russ' plan9port from
>> 20090731. You can download it from:
>>
>>  http://code.suckless.org/dl/tools/9base-3.tar.gz
>>
>> its project page can be found at:
>>
>>  http://tools.suckless.org/9base
>>
>> and you can also clone it using mercurial as follow:
>>
>>  hg clone http://hg.suckless.org/9base
>
> So, is this just a slimmer version of plan9port?

It's just yacc, rc and several shell commands for scripting, so it can
be used if you prefer a plan 9 userland when writing shell scripts.
Also 9base can be build using posix make(1). Initially I created it
because we wrote several shell scripts for wmii
(http://wmii.suckless.org), the reason for reviving it is basically
werc (http://werc.cat-v.org). I simply didn't want to install full
featured plan9port on a server to just run werc, 9base is ideal in
such cases. It's just 35kSLOC (in contrast to the 500+kSLOC of
plan9port), hence smaller than bash for instance, but including all
dependencies.

All kudos go to Russ for his excellent plan9port work though.

Kind regards,
Anselm

Re: [9fans] 9base-3

[Jason Catena]

In recently-updated Cygwin (under WinXP), I got several dozen of these
warning types ...

In file included from regex/regcomp.c:2:
./regexp9.h:8: warning: weak declaration of '__p9l_autolib_regexp9'
not supported

... before a compile error ...

regex/regcomp.c: In function `regcomp1':
regex/regcomp.c:487: error: invalid lvalue in unary `&'
regex/regcomp.c:487: warning: implicit declaration of function `p9setjmp'
make[1]: *** [regex/regcomp.o] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/cygdrive/d/Profiles/cjc040/opt/src/9base-3/lib9'
make: *** [all] Error 2

... with this code (line 487 is the if line).

	if(setjmp(regkaboom))
		goto out;

This project is welcome, for two reasons significant to me.  A minimal
subset of the scripting tools means I can stop maintaining ksh scripts
for machines that I don't want to install plan9port on (eg lab
machines I won't use often.)

For me, plan9port won't extract fully from its tar file (even if I
extract and repackage it) on my brain-dead Windows+Cygwin laptop at
work.  The plan9port distribution works fine on a Linux machine, so I
assume it's Cygwin (I do have enough disk space free).  Maybe I should
try hg when I'm not behind the firewall, to download the whole
distribution file-by-file.

Jason Catena

Re: [9fans] 9base-3

[Uriel]

Always get p9p from hg, the tarballs have been partially broken for
ages and always have problems being untared in some environments, hg
is fast, painless, and makes it real easy to keep your installation up
to date.

uriel

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 11:34 PM, Jason Catena<jason.catena@gmail.com> wrote:
> In recently-updated Cygwin (under WinXP), I got several dozen of these
> warning types ...
>
> In file included from regex/regcomp.c:2:
> ./regexp9.h:8: warning: weak declaration of '__p9l_autolib_regexp9'
> not supported
>
> ... before a compile error ...
>
> regex/regcomp.c: In function `regcomp1':
> regex/regcomp.c:487: error: invalid lvalue in unary `&'
> regex/regcomp.c:487: warning: implicit declaration of function `p9setjmp'
> make[1]: *** [regex/regcomp.o] Error 1
> make[1]: Leaving directory `/cygdrive/d/Profiles/cjc040/opt/src/9base-3/lib9'
> make: *** [all] Error 2
>
> ... with this code (line 487 is the if line).
>
>        if(setjmp(regkaboom))
>                goto out;
>
> This project is welcome, for two reasons significant to me.  A minimal
> subset of the scripting tools means I can stop maintaining ksh scripts
> for machines that I don't want to install plan9port on (eg lab
> machines I won't use often.)
>
> For me, plan9port won't extract fully from its tar file (even if I
> extract and repackage it) on my brain-dead Windows+Cygwin laptop at
> work.  The plan9port distribution works fine on a Linux machine, so I
> assume it's Cygwin (I do have enough disk space free).  Maybe I should
> try hg when I'm not behind the firewall, to download the whole
> distribution file-by-file.
>
> Jason Catena
>
>

Re: [9fans] 9base-3

[Russ Cox]

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Uriel<uriel99@gmail.com> wrote:
> Always get p9p from hg, the tarballs have been partially broken for
> ages and

Excuse me?
Instead of keeping that to yourself why not tell me so I can fix it?
I know many people who install from the tar file, though,
so I expect you're just whining instead of checking the facts,
as usual.

> always have problems being untared in some environments

Again, details?

FreeBSD:
holo=; hget http://swtch.com/plan9port/plan9port.tgz | gunzip | tar xf -
holo=; ls -lR plan9 | awk '/^-/ {s+=$5} END{print s}'
49413465
holo=;

Linux:
c2=; gunzip < plan9port.tgz | tar xf -
tar: Ignoring unknown extended header keyword `SCHILY.dev'
tar: Ignoring unknown extended header keyword `SCHILY.ino'
tar: Ignoring unknown extended header keyword `SCHILY.nlink'
c2=;  ls -lR plan9 | awk '/^-/ {s+=$5} END{print s}'
49413465
c2=;

OS X:
mini=; gunzip < plan9port.tgz | tar xf -
mini=; ls -lR plan9 | awk '/^-/ {s+=$5} END{print s}'
49342685
mini=;

The GNU tar warnings about SCHILY extensions don't count as
a problem: it's an inconsequential warning message.

The missing 70780 bytes on OS X are the files HI, HX, LH, RC, lH, and rH
from troff/font/devutf/charlib, which have been overwritten with differently
cased versions of the same files.  It doesn't matter since basically
no one uses those special characters, and you'd have the same problem
using Hg or any other file program: the bug is in the file system, not
the extractor.

I'm plenty happy for people to use hg instead of the tar files--
I think that's good advice for the people who enjoy using
version control systems--but please don't go spreading
misinformation.

Thanks.
Russ

Re: [9fans] 9base-3

[Uriel]

I haven't used the tarball in years because I simply find hg more
convenient, but a few times when I have recommended somebody to
install p9p they have complained about problems unpacking the tarball,
I just tell them to do a fresh hg checkout instead, and that usually
works for them. Maybe they are simply confused by whatever errors gnu
tar spews for who knows what reason, but people that have no problems
with other tarballs do have problems with the p9p tarballs, and it has
been going on for a while.

uriel

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 8:58 AM, Russ Cox<rsc@swtch.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Uriel<uriel99@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Always get p9p from hg, the tarballs have been partially broken for
>> ages and
>
> Excuse me?
> Instead of keeping that to yourself why not tell me so I can fix it?
> I know many people who install from the tar file, though,
> so I expect you're just whining instead of checking the facts,
> as usual.
>
>> always have problems being untared in some environments
>
> Again, details?
>
> FreeBSD:
> holo=; hget http://swtch.com/plan9port/plan9port.tgz | gunzip | tar xf -
> holo=; ls -lR plan9 | awk '/^-/ {s+=$5} END{print s}'
> 49413465
> holo=;
>
> Linux:
> c2=; gunzip < plan9port.tgz | tar xf -
> tar: Ignoring unknown extended header keyword `SCHILY.dev'
> tar: Ignoring unknown extended header keyword `SCHILY.ino'
> tar: Ignoring unknown extended header keyword `SCHILY.nlink'
> c2=;  ls -lR plan9 | awk '/^-/ {s+=$5} END{print s}'
> 49413465
> c2=;
>
> OS X:
> mini=; gunzip < plan9port.tgz | tar xf -
> mini=; ls -lR plan9 | awk '/^-/ {s+=$5} END{print s}'
> 49342685
> mini=;
>
> The GNU tar warnings about SCHILY extensions don't count as
> a problem: it's an inconsequential warning message.
>
> The missing 70780 bytes on OS X are the files HI, HX, LH, RC, lH, and rH
> from troff/font/devutf/charlib, which have been overwritten with differently
> cased versions of the same files.  It doesn't matter since basically
> no one uses those special characters, and you'd have the same problem
> using Hg or any other file program: the bug is in the file system, not
> the extractor.
>
> I'm plenty happy for people to use hg instead of the tar files--
> I think that's good advice for the people who enjoy using
> version control systems--but please don't go spreading
> misinformation.
>
> Thanks.
> Russ
>
>

Re: [9fans] 9base-3

[Uriel]

Perhaps a way to solve this problems and save you work and trouble
would be to simply link to: http://code.swtch.com/plan9port/get/tip.gz
and let mercurial do the job of building a tarball for the latest
repo.

uriel

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 9:35 AM, Uriel<uriel99@gmail.com> wrote:
> I haven't used the tarball in years because I simply find hg more
> convenient, but a few times when I have recommended somebody to
> install p9p they have complained about problems unpacking the tarball,
> I just tell them to do a fresh hg checkout instead, and that usually
> works for them. Maybe they are simply confused by whatever errors gnu
> tar spews for who knows what reason, but people that have no problems
> with other tarballs do have problems with the p9p tarballs, and it has
> been going on for a while.
>
> uriel
>
> On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 8:58 AM, Russ Cox<rsc@swtch.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Uriel<uriel99@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Always get p9p from hg, the tarballs have been partially broken for
>>> ages and
>>
>> Excuse me?
>> Instead of keeping that to yourself why not tell me so I can fix it?
>> I know many people who install from the tar file, though,
>> so I expect you're just whining instead of checking the facts,
>> as usual.
>>
>>> always have problems being untared in some environments
>>
>> Again, details?
>>
>> FreeBSD:
>> holo=; hget http://swtch.com/plan9port/plan9port.tgz | gunzip | tar xf -
>> holo=; ls -lR plan9 | awk '/^-/ {s+=$5} END{print s}'
>> 49413465
>> holo=;
>>
>> Linux:
>> c2=; gunzip < plan9port.tgz | tar xf -
>> tar: Ignoring unknown extended header keyword `SCHILY.dev'
>> tar: Ignoring unknown extended header keyword `SCHILY.ino'
>> tar: Ignoring unknown extended header keyword `SCHILY.nlink'
>> c2=;  ls -lR plan9 | awk '/^-/ {s+=$5} END{print s}'
>> 49413465
>> c2=;
>>
>> OS X:
>> mini=; gunzip < plan9port.tgz | tar xf -
>> mini=; ls -lR plan9 | awk '/^-/ {s+=$5} END{print s}'
>> 49342685
>> mini=;
>>
>> The GNU tar warnings about SCHILY extensions don't count as
>> a problem: it's an inconsequential warning message.
>>
>> The missing 70780 bytes on OS X are the files HI, HX, LH, RC, lH, and rH
>> from troff/font/devutf/charlib, which have been overwritten with differently
>> cased versions of the same files.  It doesn't matter since basically
>> no one uses those special characters, and you'd have the same problem
>> using Hg or any other file program: the bug is in the file system, not
>> the extractor.
>>
>> I'm plenty happy for people to use hg instead of the tar files--
>> I think that's good advice for the people who enjoy using
>> version control systems--but please don't go spreading
>> misinformation.
>>
>> Thanks.
>> Russ
>>
>>
>

Re: [9fans] 9base-3

[Russ Cox]

Thanks, but I'm happy with the current tar files.
They are a working CVS checkout, so that
people who use them can then use the recipes
in cvs(1) [9 man cvs] to update their trees.
The one you linked to is not a working anything checkout.
I haven't touched the tar file generation in over a year
so "work and trouble" is quite the exaggeration.

I have changed the script that generates the tar files
to use the Plan 9 tar.  Now there will be no SCHILY.*
extensions for GNU tar to whine about.  Maybe that
will kill off this myth.

Russ

Re: [9fans] 9base-3

[Ethan Grammatikidis]

On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 01:39:00 -0700
Russ Cox <rsc@swtch.com> wrote:

> Thanks, but I'm happy with the current tar files.
> They are a working CVS checkout, so that
> people who use them can then use the recipes
> in cvs(1) [9 man cvs] to update their trees.
> The one you linked to is not a working anything checkout.
> I haven't touched the tar file generation in over a year
> so "work and trouble" is quite the exaggeration.
>
> I have changed the script that generates the tar files
> to use the Plan 9 tar.  Now there will be no SCHILY.*
> extensions for GNU tar to whine about.  Maybe that
> will kill off this myth.
>
> Russ
>

I usually blame distro patching, perhaps unfairly but I have had quite a
bit of bother from distro patches. I haven't had any trouble unpacking
p9p on source mage or debian, and looking through source mage 'spell'
history I found gnu tar did need a patch for security reasons a couple of
years ago. Perhaps some distro used a more agressive patch & never removed
it.


--
Ethan Grammatikidis

Those who are slower at parsing information must
necessarily be faster at problem-solving.

Re: [9fans] 9base-3

[Lawrence E. Bakst]

I only want to point out that OS X has had an option for case sensitive versions of the HFS+ file system for some time now. See the "Volume Format" popup under the "Erase" tab of the "Disk Utility" program.

I have used it for untaring of linux and plan9 source code. It seems to work and I don't think there is much downside to using it, although I am not sure I would format my system partition that way.

I have seen a few programs that had some dependency on case insensitivity but it was sometime ago and I don't remember the specifics except a vague memory that it was an Adobe application. I believe it was a coding error that was unmasked because a filename had case differences in different parts of the program.

Best,

leb

At 11:58 PM -0700 8/7/09, Russ Cox wrote:
>On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Uriel<uriel99@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Always get p9p from hg, the tarballs have been partially broken for
>> ages and
>
>Excuse me?
>Instead of keeping that to yourself why not tell me so I can fix it?
>I know many people who install from the tar file, though,
>so I expect you're just whining instead of checking the facts,
>as usual.
>
>> always have problems being untared in some environments
>
>Again, details?
>
>FreeBSD:
>holo=; hget http://swtch.com/plan9port/plan9port.tgz | gunzip | tar xf -
>holo=; ls -lR plan9 | awk '/^-/ {s+=$5} END{print s}'
>49413465
>holo=;
>
>Linux:
>c2=; gunzip < plan9port.tgz | tar xf -
>tar: Ignoring unknown extended header keyword `SCHILY.dev'
>tar: Ignoring unknown extended header keyword `SCHILY.ino'
>tar: Ignoring unknown extended header keyword `SCHILY.nlink'
>c2=;  ls -lR plan9 | awk '/^-/ {s+=$5} END{print s}'
>49413465
>c2=;
>
>OS X:
>mini=; gunzip < plan9port.tgz | tar xf -
>mini=; ls -lR plan9 | awk '/^-/ {s+=$5} END{print s}'
>49342685
>mini=;
>
>The GNU tar warnings about SCHILY extensions don't count as
>a problem: it's an inconsequential warning message.
>
>The missing 70780 bytes on OS X are the files HI, HX, LH, RC, lH, and rH
>from troff/font/devutf/charlib, which have been overwritten with differently
>cased versions of the same files.  It doesn't matter since basically
>no one uses those special characters, and you'd have the same problem
>using Hg or any other file program: the bug is in the file system, not
>the extractor.
>
>I'm plenty happy for people to use hg instead of the tar files--
>I think that's good advice for the people who enjoy using
>version control systems--but please don't go spreading
>misinformation.
>
>Thanks.
>Russ

Re: [9fans] 9base-3

[Anthony Sorace]

Lawrence E. Bakst<ml@iridescent.org> wrote:
// I only want to point out that OS X has had an option for case sensitive
// versions of the HFS+ file system for some time now.

// ...It seems to work and I don't think there is much downside to using it,
// although I am not sure I would format my system partition that way.

my system partition is that way. it's fine. i've observed a few
applications behaving
strangely, but they all come down to two categories:

1) games pseudo-ported from Windows source using the Cider translation
layer from TransGaming.

2) Microsoft Office.

thankfully i have no need for Office and the games are, well, games.
much more importantly and relevantly here, the entire BSD subsystem
is, unsurprisingly, perfectly happy, and thus so is p9p.