* Re: [9fans] more little hardware
@ 2010-03-16 17:52 Jonas Amoson
2010-03-16 17:24 ` blstuart
0 siblings, 1 reply; 42+ messages in thread
From: Jonas Amoson @ 2010-03-16 17:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 9fans
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As I get it, it does not feauture a USB host controller, but acts
like an USB device that you can connect to your PC. Maybe it
will work anyhow...
>>> I was wondering how you'd network one of those things:
>>>
>>> http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_in_Nanonote
>
> I thought that was terribly cute. The other option is talking
> PPP over the USB. You'd be tethered, but you could at least
> talk.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-16 17:52 [9fans] more little hardware Jonas Amoson @ 2010-03-16 17:24 ` blstuart 0 siblings, 0 replies; 42+ messages in thread From: blstuart @ 2010-03-16 17:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > As I get it, it does not feauture a USB host controller, but acts > like an USB device that you can connect to your PC. Maybe it > will work anyhow... > >>>> I was wondering how you'd network one of those things: >>>> >>>> http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_in_Nanonote >> >> I thought that was terribly cute. The other option is talking >> PPP over the USB. You'd be tethered, but you could at least >> talk. I think it will. I've done PPP over USB before, and I'm pretty sure it was a case of the PC acting as host and the other end as a device. But it's been about a year, and I'm having trouble recalling the details. But as I'm thinking right now, that would just be an interim step before hopefully moving to the 802.11 device in the microSD card. BLS ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* [9fans] more little hardware @ 2010-03-16 10:34 maht 2010-03-16 14:54 ` blstuart 0 siblings, 1 reply; 42+ messages in thread From: maht @ 2010-03-16 10:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans >> Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/15/qi-hardwares-tiny-hackable-ben-nanonote-now-shipping/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-16 10:34 maht @ 2010-03-16 14:54 ` blstuart 2010-03-16 16:44 ` John Floren 2010-03-16 16:53 ` Jack Johnson 0 siblings, 2 replies; 42+ messages in thread From: blstuart @ 2010-03-16 14:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/15/qi-hardwares-tiny-hackable-ben-nanonote-now-shipping/ Okay, Maht. You just cost me $125 :) I just couldn't resist. Of course, it remains to be seen whether this will be another project that gets pushed onto the stack or we will see something come of it. What I've got in mind at the moment is a native Inferno port. We'll see what happens. BLS ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-16 14:54 ` blstuart @ 2010-03-16 16:44 ` John Floren 2010-03-16 16:17 ` blstuart ` (4 more replies) 2010-03-16 16:53 ` Jack Johnson 1 sibling, 5 replies; 42+ messages in thread From: John Floren @ 2010-03-16 16:44 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:54 AM, <blstuart@bellsouth.net> wrote: >> http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/15/qi-hardwares-tiny-hackable-ben-nanonote-now-shipping/ > > Okay, Maht. You just cost me $125 :) I just couldn't resist. > Of course, it remains to be seen whether this will be another > project that gets pushed onto the stack or we will see something > come of it. What I've got in mind at the moment is a native > Inferno port. We'll see what happens. > > BLS > Shame it doesn't have a cell phone radio built in, or Ron and I might have just what we needed for the 9phone. At 32 MB of RAM, it's basically the very lower limit of what we could use for a terminal. Does it have a touchscreen? I didn't see that listed. John -- "Object-oriented design is the roman numerals of computing" -- Rob Pike ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-16 16:44 ` John Floren @ 2010-03-16 16:17 ` blstuart 2010-03-16 19:35 ` Tim Newsham ` (3 subsequent siblings) 4 siblings, 0 replies; 42+ messages in thread From: blstuart @ 2010-03-16 16:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > Shame it doesn't have a cell phone radio built in, or Ron and I might > have just what we needed for the 9phone. That would be cool. Unfortunately, the cell phone people seem a lot less friendly about releasing the information necessary to program their chips. > At 32 MB of RAM, it's basically the very lower limit of what we could > use for a terminal. Does it have a touchscreen? I didn't see that > listed. As near as I can tell, it doesn't. I think the large square key is basically a mouse. As to buttons, I don't know yet. In the worst case, I can probably usurp the function keys as mouse buttons. BLS ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-16 16:44 ` John Floren 2010-03-16 16:17 ` blstuart @ 2010-03-16 19:35 ` Tim Newsham 2010-03-16 19:46 ` John Floren 2010-03-16 21:02 ` Patrick Kelly ` (2 subsequent siblings) 4 siblings, 1 reply; 42+ messages in thread From: Tim Newsham @ 2010-03-16 19:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs > Shame it doesn't have a cell phone radio built in, or Ron and I might > have just what we needed for the 9phone. 9phone? > John Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-16 19:35 ` Tim Newsham @ 2010-03-16 19:46 ` John Floren 2010-03-17 4:03 ` Tim Newsham 0 siblings, 1 reply; 42+ messages in thread From: John Floren @ 2010-03-16 19:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Tim Newsham <newsham@lava.net> wrote: >> Shame it doesn't have a cell phone radio built in, or Ron and I might >> have just what we needed for the 9phone. > > 9phone? > Just an idea to run Plan 9 on phone hardware, "son of bitsy". Looks like there's a lot of very cheap Android devices coming from China in the near future, so we may be in luck there. John -- "Object-oriented design is the roman numerals of computing" -- Rob Pike ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-16 19:46 ` John Floren @ 2010-03-17 4:03 ` Tim Newsham 2010-03-17 4:50 ` ron minnich 0 siblings, 1 reply; 42+ messages in thread From: Tim Newsham @ 2010-03-17 4:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs >> 9phone? > > Just an idea to run Plan 9 on phone hardware, "son of bitsy". Looks > like there's a lot of very cheap Android devices coming from China in > the near future, so we may be in luck there. Hmm.. There's the OK-labs android stuff which virtualizes android on top of L4. If only p9 was running on top of L4 :) > John Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-17 4:03 ` Tim Newsham @ 2010-03-17 4:50 ` ron minnich 2010-03-17 14:38 ` David Leimbach 2010-03-18 6:59 ` Tim Newsham 0 siblings, 2 replies; 42+ messages in thread From: ron minnich @ 2010-03-17 4:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 8:03 PM, Tim Newsham <newsham@lava.net> wrote: > Hmm.. There's the OK-labs android stuff which virtualizes > android on top of L4. If only p9 was running on top of L4 :) Get cracking Tim! how hard can it be? :-) Actually I still think igep + sparkfun phone module might be a path. ron ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-17 4:50 ` ron minnich @ 2010-03-17 14:38 ` David Leimbach 2010-03-18 6:59 ` Tim Newsham 1 sibling, 0 replies; 42+ messages in thread From: David Leimbach @ 2010-03-17 14:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 534 bytes --] On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:50 PM, ron minnich <rminnich@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 8:03 PM, Tim Newsham <newsham@lava.net> wrote: > > > Hmm.. There's the OK-labs android stuff which virtualizes > > android on top of L4. If only p9 was running on top of L4 :) > > > Get cracking Tim! how hard can it be? :-) > > Actually I still think igep + sparkfun phone module might be a path. > > ron > > I keep wanting to look into PL4n 9, but this pesky job, wife and child thing keeps getting in the way :-) [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 920 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-17 4:50 ` ron minnich 2010-03-17 14:38 ` David Leimbach @ 2010-03-18 6:59 ` Tim Newsham 2010-03-18 8:04 ` Steve Simon 1 sibling, 1 reply; 42+ messages in thread From: Tim Newsham @ 2010-03-18 6:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: TEXT/PLAIN, Size: 374 bytes --] >> android on top of L4. If only p9 was running on top of L4 :) > > Get cracking Tim! how hard can it be? :-) Honestly, I think it would loads of fun to do, but I probably wouldn't use it myself once done, I don't have the free time to do it, and I don't know of a way to do it for work... > ron Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-18 6:59 ` Tim Newsham @ 2010-03-18 8:04 ` Steve Simon 2010-03-18 9:24 ` Gabriel Díaz 2010-03-18 12:46 ` erik quanstrom 0 siblings, 2 replies; 42+ messages in thread From: Steve Simon @ 2010-03-18 8:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > Honestly, I think it would loads of fun to do, but I probably wouldn't use > it myself once done, I don't have the free time to do it, and I don't > know of a way to do it for work... The story of my (plan9) life... I should add that there is also lots of stuff I _would_ use that I don't have time to write. my big question is "How do I get my employer to need plan9?" -Steve ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-18 8:04 ` Steve Simon @ 2010-03-18 9:24 ` Gabriel Díaz 2010-03-18 14:36 ` David Leimbach 2010-03-18 12:46 ` erik quanstrom 1 sibling, 1 reply; 42+ messages in thread From: Gabriel Díaz @ 2010-03-18 9:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs hello "How do I get my employer to need plan9?" Given the experiences posted by some of the plan9 inventors in other thread, this seems to be an almost impossible task, unless you make your own business or change you're employer for someone which already uses plan9. I guess. It is a bit discouraging for a fan who has the hope to get his employer need plan9 i think. I already gave up on this. slds. gabi ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Simon <steve@quintile.net> To: 9fans@9fans.net Sent: Thu, March 18, 2010 9:04:56 AM Subject: Re: [9fans] more little hardware > Honestly, I think it would loads of fun to do, but I probably wouldn't use > it myself once done, I don't have the free time to do it, and I don't > know of a way to do it for work... The story of my (plan9) life... I should add that there is also lots of stuff I _would_ use that I don't have time to write. my big question is "How do I get my employer to need plan9?" -Steve ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-18 9:24 ` Gabriel Díaz @ 2010-03-18 14:36 ` David Leimbach 2010-03-18 15:42 ` Jorden Mauro 0 siblings, 1 reply; 42+ messages in thread From: David Leimbach @ 2010-03-18 14:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1669 bytes --] On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 2:24 AM, Gabriel Díaz <gdiaz@rejaa.com> wrote: > hello > > "How do I get my employer to need plan9?" > > Given the experiences posted by some of the plan9 inventors in other > thread, this seems to be an almost impossible task, unless you make your own > business or change you're employer for someone which already uses plan9. I > guess. > > It is a bit discouraging for a fan who has the hope to get his employer > need plan9 i think. I already gave up on this. > I think size of company matters too. We're a really small group where I work, and getting things done correctly is actually valued a bit more than the means by which it gets done. It's that mentality that let me throw off the shackles of Java for Erlang and Haskell for a lot of the code I'm responsible for. I might even try to push my luck soon and get permission to rewrite a small but really important chunk of code in Go if i can prove to myself, and then to others, that it's a good idea :-) Dave > > slds. > > gabi > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Steve Simon <steve@quintile.net> > To: 9fans@9fans.net > Sent: Thu, March 18, 2010 9:04:56 AM > Subject: Re: [9fans] more little hardware > > > Honestly, I think it would loads of fun to do, but I probably wouldn't > use > > it myself once done, I don't have the free time to do it, and I don't > > know of a way to do it for work... > > The story of my (plan9) life... > > I should add that there is also lots of stuff I _would_ use > that I don't have time to write. > > my big question is "How do I get my employer to need plan9?" > > -Steve > > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2364 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-18 14:36 ` David Leimbach @ 2010-03-18 15:42 ` Jorden Mauro 2010-03-24 22:28 ` Jack Johnson 0 siblings, 1 reply; 42+ messages in thread From: Jorden Mauro @ 2010-03-18 15:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 10:36 AM, David Leimbach <leimy2k@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 2:24 AM, Gabriel Díaz <gdiaz@rejaa.com> wrote: >> >> hello >> >> "How do I get my employer to need plan9?" >> >> Given the experiences posted by some of the plan9 inventors in other >> thread, this seems to be an almost impossible task, unless you make your own >> business or change you're employer for someone which already uses plan9. I >> guess. >> >> It is a bit discouraging for a fan who has the hope to get his employer >> need plan9 i think. I already gave up on this. > > I think size of company matters too. We're a really small group where I > work, and getting things done correctly is actually valued a bit more than > the means by which it gets done. > It's that mentality that let me throw off the shackles of Java for Erlang > and Haskell for a lot of the code I'm responsible for. You are a lucky man. > I might even try to > push my luck soon and get permission to rewrite a small but really important > chunk of code in Go if i can prove to myself, and then to others, that it's > a good idea :-) > Dave > >> >> slds. >> >> gabi >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ---- >> From: Steve Simon <steve@quintile.net> >> To: 9fans@9fans.net >> Sent: Thu, March 18, 2010 9:04:56 AM >> Subject: Re: [9fans] more little hardware >> >> > Honestly, I think it would loads of fun to do, but I probably wouldn't >> > use >> > it myself once done, I don't have the free time to do it, and I don't >> > know of a way to do it for work... >> >> The story of my (plan9) life... >> >> I should add that there is also lots of stuff I _would_ use >> that I don't have time to write. >> >> my big question is "How do I get my employer to need plan9?" >> >> -Steve >> > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-18 15:42 ` Jorden Mauro @ 2010-03-24 22:28 ` Jack Johnson 2010-03-28 14:33 ` Georg Lehner 0 siblings, 1 reply; 42+ messages in thread From: Jack Johnson @ 2010-03-24 22:28 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Thanks to Google's targeted ads: http://www.eglobalwireless.com/p-4333-new-7-mini-netbook-laptop-notebook-wifi-windows-2gb-hd.aspx Also might make a good Inferno device if WinCE isn't too firmly ensconced. -Jack ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-24 22:28 ` Jack Johnson @ 2010-03-28 14:33 ` Georg Lehner 0 siblings, 0 replies; 42+ messages in thread From: Georg Lehner @ 2010-03-28 14:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Jack Johnson wrote: > Thanks to Google's targeted ads: > > http://www.eglobalwireless.com/p-4333-new-7-mini-netbook-laptop-notebook-wifi-windows-2gb-hd.aspx > > Also might make a good Inferno device if WinCE isn't too firmly ensconced. > > -Jack > > Anybody interested in porting Inferno emu to WinCE? It should not be hard to do, and the tools are available for free. I could contribute some knowledge and ressources, though not much time. WinCE allows to replace the Windows Shell with something else via a simple registry setting ( targetting e.g. Mobile Phones with WinCE already installed). A lot of commercially evaluation boards provide WinCE board support packages which would allow one to create a new OS-Image with everything but the WinCE kernel stripped out and include inferno emu as "GUI-shell". Porting Plan9 from user space seems somewhat more involved to me (threads and graphics) while an Inferno emu for (Desktop) Windows already exists (and should require little porting effort to WinCE APIs). Regards, Jorge-Le�n ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-18 8:04 ` Steve Simon 2010-03-18 9:24 ` Gabriel Díaz @ 2010-03-18 12:46 ` erik quanstrom 2010-03-18 14:27 ` Patrick Kelly 1 sibling, 1 reply; 42+ messages in thread From: erik quanstrom @ 2010-03-18 12:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > > my big question is "How do I get my employer to need plan9?" > by careful choise of employer? ☺ - erik ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-18 12:46 ` erik quanstrom @ 2010-03-18 14:27 ` Patrick Kelly 0 siblings, 0 replies; 42+ messages in thread From: Patrick Kelly @ 2010-03-18 14:27 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Thu, 2010-03-18 at 08:46 -0400, erik quanstrom wrote: > > > > my big question is "How do I get my employer to need plan9?" > > > > by careful choise of employer? ☺ Or become the employer Seriously though, ask around, see if theres a use for any old machines at your workplace. Too old to be running Windows or UNIX, but still fine for a non-hack-job system like Plan 9. Most business men are always looking for ways to save money. > > - erik > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-16 16:44 ` John Floren 2010-03-16 16:17 ` blstuart 2010-03-16 19:35 ` Tim Newsham @ 2010-03-16 21:02 ` Patrick Kelly 2010-03-16 23:38 ` ron minnich 2010-03-17 2:05 ` David Arnold 2010-03-17 11:11 ` maht 2010-03-17 13:57 ` Stuart Morrow 4 siblings, 2 replies; 42+ messages in thread From: Patrick Kelly @ 2010-03-16 21:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Tue, 2010-03-16 at 11:44 -0500, John Floren wrote: > On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 9:54 AM, <blstuart@bellsouth.net> wrote: > >> http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/15/qi-hardwares-tiny-hackable-ben-nanonote-now-shipping/ > > > > Okay, Maht. You just cost me $125 :) I just couldn't resist. > > Of course, it remains to be seen whether this will be another > > project that gets pushed onto the stack or we will see something > > come of it. What I've got in mind at the moment is a native > > Inferno port. We'll see what happens. > > > > BLS > > > > Shame it doesn't have a cell phone radio built in, or Ron and I might > have just what we needed for the 9phone. Any thought as to using the OpenMoko as a phone platform? > > At 32 MB of RAM, it's basically the very lower limit of what we could > use for a terminal. Does it have a touchscreen? I didn't see that > listed. > > > John ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-16 21:02 ` Patrick Kelly @ 2010-03-16 23:38 ` ron minnich 2010-03-16 23:47 ` Patrick Kelly ` (2 more replies) 2010-03-17 2:05 ` David Arnold 1 sibling, 3 replies; 42+ messages in thread From: ron minnich @ 2010-03-16 23:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Patrick Kelly <kameo76890@gmail.com> wrote: > Any thought as to using the OpenMoko as a phone platform? vapor. That thing was pure vapor from start to end. ron ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-16 23:38 ` ron minnich @ 2010-03-16 23:47 ` Patrick Kelly 2010-03-17 9:05 ` Charles Forsyth 2010-03-17 9:35 ` hugh 2 siblings, 0 replies; 42+ messages in thread From: Patrick Kelly @ 2010-03-16 23:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Tue, 2010-03-16 at 15:38 -0800, ron minnich wrote: > On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Patrick Kelly <kameo76890@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Any thought as to using the OpenMoko as a phone platform? > > vapor. That thing was pure vapor from start to end. Figures sickening how many potentially nice, GPL'd, things turn into that. > > ron > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-16 23:38 ` ron minnich 2010-03-16 23:47 ` Patrick Kelly @ 2010-03-17 9:05 ` Charles Forsyth 2010-03-17 14:02 ` Stuart Morrow 2010-03-17 9:35 ` hugh 2 siblings, 1 reply; 42+ messages in thread From: Charles Forsyth @ 2010-03-17 9:05 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans >vapor. That thing was pure vapor from start to end. i think that's a little unfair. they did produce something but underestimated the time and treasure required to make a prototype even moderately usable. had it been only the lack of software, they could have fixed it, but they were stuck too early with hardware mistakes. that doesn't fully explain the software decisions, but they did produce a very strange interface. as to hardware/software: i'm often struck at how badly hardware designers still misunderstand how the software will want to see things, and not just on things like the openmoko. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-17 9:05 ` Charles Forsyth @ 2010-03-17 14:02 ` Stuart Morrow 0 siblings, 0 replies; 42+ messages in thread From: Stuart Morrow @ 2010-03-17 14:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On 3/17/10, Charles Forsyth <forsyth@terzarima.net> wrote: > as to hardware/software: i'm often struck at how badly hardware > designers still misunderstand how the software will want to see things, > and not just on things like the openmoko. I'm often struck at how badly software designers still misunderstand how the user will want to see things. </cheek> (note: not aimed at Plan 9, which may well be my least hated GUI and my least hated command line) Anyway, re: your hardware comment: even in virtualisation, where the hardware is actually software, they still do it wrong. Three or four years ago there was a thread on kvm-devel where Ron and Eric were advocating that a PV device should be this 9P-like thing, it never turned out that way though. -stu ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-16 23:38 ` ron minnich 2010-03-16 23:47 ` Patrick Kelly 2010-03-17 9:05 ` Charles Forsyth @ 2010-03-17 9:35 ` hugh 2010-03-17 15:08 ` ron minnich 2 siblings, 1 reply; 42+ messages in thread From: hugh @ 2010-03-17 9:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans On Mar 16, 7:40Â pm, rminn...@gmail.com (ron minnich) wrote: > On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Patrick Kelly <kameo76...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Any thought as to using the OpenMoko as a phone platform? > > vapor. That thing was pure vapor from start to end. No, it was not vapour. You can buy it here, for example (a place that also sells the Ben Nanonote): <http://hackable-devices.com/products/product/freerunner-gta02/> There are definite cracks in the project. As far as I can tell it isn't making forward progress. For example, the hardware only supports 3 bands, not the 4 bands they intended. The software has had shaky development (I don't know its current status). But the software doesn't matter if you plan on putting your own on. The hardware is almost open, last I heard. They got snookered by a component provider that promised open but didn't actually deliver. Android and OpenMoko are phones are both open for the customer. The crucial difference is that the customer of Android is not the end-user but the customer for the OpenMoko is. Before buying one, have a look at the community to see if it is alive enough. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-17 9:35 ` hugh @ 2010-03-17 15:08 ` ron minnich 0 siblings, 0 replies; 42+ messages in thread From: ron minnich @ 2010-03-17 15:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 1:35 AM, hugh@mimosa.com <hugh@mimosa.com> wrote: > On Mar 16, 7:40Â pm, rminn...@gmail.com (ron minnich) wrote: >> On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Patrick Kelly <kameo76...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > Any thought as to using the OpenMoko as a phone platform? >> >> vapor. That thing was pure vapor from start to end. > > > No, it was not vapour. You can buy it here, for example (a place that > also sells the Ben Nanonote): > <http://hackable-devices.com/products/product/freerunner-gta02/> Yep, I guess it's buyable now, where for the 3 or so years I kept trying to buy it it was always "oh, hang on, we're not quite ready yet". I'm sticking with my characterization. > > There are definite cracks in the project. As far as I can tell it > isn't making forward progress. For example, the hardware only > supports 3 bands, not the 4 bands they intended. The software has had > shaky development (I don't know its current status). But the software > doesn't matter if you plan on putting your own on. > > The hardware is almost open, last I heard. They got snookered by a > component provider that promised open but didn't actually deliver. Doesn't sound that useful to me. ron ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-16 21:02 ` Patrick Kelly 2010-03-16 23:38 ` ron minnich @ 2010-03-17 2:05 ` David Arnold 1 sibling, 0 replies; 42+ messages in thread From: David Arnold @ 2010-03-17 2:05 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On 16/03/2010, at 5:02 PM, Patrick Kelly wrote: > Any thought as to using the OpenMoko as a phone platform? Unfortunately, I don't think either the Neo1973 or the FreeRunner are useful as a daily-use phone due to various hardware bugs or limitations. d ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-16 16:44 ` John Floren ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2010-03-16 21:02 ` Patrick Kelly @ 2010-03-17 11:11 ` maht 2010-03-17 13:57 ` Stuart Morrow 4 siblings, 0 replies; 42+ messages in thread From: maht @ 2010-03-17 11:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > Shame it doesn't have a cell phone radio built in, or Ron and I might > have just what we needed for the 9phone. > > One of these days I'll have something like this on my desk http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9311 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-16 16:44 ` John Floren ` (3 preceding siblings ...) 2010-03-17 11:11 ` maht @ 2010-03-17 13:57 ` Stuart Morrow 2010-03-17 18:06 ` Jack Johnson 4 siblings, 1 reply; 42+ messages in thread From: Stuart Morrow @ 2010-03-17 13:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On 3/16/10, John Floren <slawmaster@gmail.com> wrote: > Shame it doesn't have a cell phone radio built in, or Ron and I might > have just what we needed for the 9phone. I'm been using the same phone since 2003 - the only phone I've ever owned - so I obviously don't care (or know) much about "smart phones". I don't even send texts, only regular voice calls. I do receive texts. However, there is one "smart" feature that for me would be useful enough that carrying a big chunky thing that lives for a quarter of a day on battery might actually be worth it, and the feature is so damn trivial to do with Plan 9 - setting/unsetting the ring tone to/from silent in a cron job. I don't know if other phones provide that feature but I've never heard it mentioned. Bonus feature, just because it's so trivial to do on a Plan 9 phone: cat /dev/eia0 | awk -v 'RS=whateverNMEAuses' ' ($longfield "," $latfield == "xxx,yyy"){print "off"}' > /dev/ringctl Or more realistically, because you don't walk over the exact same spot all the time: 'nearenough($longfield "," $latfield, "xxx,yyy"){print "toggle"}' stu ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-17 13:57 ` Stuart Morrow @ 2010-03-17 18:06 ` Jack Johnson 2010-03-17 19:13 ` John Floren 2010-03-18 6:53 ` Tim Newsham 0 siblings, 2 replies; 42+ messages in thread From: Jack Johnson @ 2010-03-17 18:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 5:57 AM, Stuart Morrow <morrow.stuart@googlemail.com> wrote: > However, there is one "smart" feature that for me would be useful enough that > carrying a big chunky thing that lives for a quarter of a day on battery might > actually be worth it, and the feature is so damn trivial to do with Plan 9 - > setting/unsetting the ring tone to/from silent in a cron job. I would like my ringtone volume to adjust periodically to the ambient noise, which also seems fairly trivial. What did you folks with bitsies and iPAQs find useful? Any of you still packing one? -Jack ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-17 18:06 ` Jack Johnson @ 2010-03-17 19:13 ` John Floren 2010-03-17 19:49 ` Axel Belinfante 2010-03-18 6:53 ` Tim Newsham 1 sibling, 1 reply; 42+ messages in thread From: John Floren @ 2010-03-17 19:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 2:06 PM, Jack Johnson <knapjack@gmail.com> wrote: > On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 5:57 AM, Stuart Morrow > <morrow.stuart@googlemail.com> wrote: >> However, there is one "smart" feature that for me would be useful enough that >> carrying a big chunky thing that lives for a quarter of a day on battery might >> actually be worth it, and the feature is so damn trivial to do with Plan 9 - >> setting/unsetting the ring tone to/from silent in a cron job. > > I would like my ringtone volume to adjust periodically to the ambient > noise, which also seems fairly trivial. > > What did you folks with bitsies and iPAQs find useful? Any of you > still packing one? > > -Jack I have fiddled with an iPAQ/bitsy on and off over the last few years. What's really nice about it is that you get access to a "real computer"; I booted wirelessly off my CPU server, which meant I had access to all my files and music, which was nice because the bitsy's sound hardware is supported. As long as you have a wireless connection, it's the best way to use a PDA. If wireless goes away... life sucks. It was nice--the reason I don't use it is because the adapter which gives PCMCIA capability makes the device about 3 inches thick, and the battery is pretty old/weak. By my assessment, the bitsy was just a little too primitive for Plan 9. You need a bulky adapter to get wireless (PCMCIA sleeve + orinoco, basically), the boot process is a bit weird, there's not really much local storage, and of course it's a PDA, not a phone, so you still have to carry around a cell phone too. If we could either port to a modern ARM-based phone or work out some sort of relatively space-efficient combination of the Beagleboard + touchscreen + cell radio + battery, I think life would be nice. The OpenMoko platform is quite cheap, but I don't know that there's much future there; I can't find the reference now, but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere on the site that they do not plan to design any more hardware. John -- "Object-oriented design is the roman numerals of computing" -- Rob Pike ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-17 19:13 ` John Floren @ 2010-03-17 19:49 ` Axel Belinfante 2010-03-17 19:57 ` Axel Belinfante 0 siblings, 1 reply; 42+ messages in thread From: Axel Belinfante @ 2010-03-17 19:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Mar 17, 2010, at 20:13 , John Floren wrote: > On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 2:06 PM, Jack Johnson <knapjack@gmail.com> > wrote: >> On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 5:57 AM, Stuart Morrow >> <morrow.stuart@googlemail.com> wrote: >>> However, there is one "smart" feature that for me would be useful >>> enough that >>> carrying a big chunky thing that lives for a quarter of a day on >>> battery might >>> actually be worth it, and the feature is so damn trivial to do >>> with Plan 9 - >>> setting/unsetting the ring tone to/from silent in a cron job. >> >> I would like my ringtone volume to adjust periodically to the ambient >> noise, which also seems fairly trivial. >> >> What did you folks with bitsies and iPAQs find useful? Any of you >> still packing one? >> >> -Jack > > I have fiddled with an iPAQ/bitsy on and off over the last few years. > What's really nice about it is that you get access to a "real > computer"; I booted wirelessly off my CPU server, which meant I had > access to all my files and music, which was nice because the bitsy's > sound hardware is supported. As long as you have a wireless > connection, it's the best way to use a PDA. can agree to that. used it to play music too, a bit. there was a time when I occasionally used it as small terminal, at the university, at home, or even elsewhere, to connect via vnc to a session running on the desktop at the office. with a tiny font, an xterm would be big enough to read email via mh. I also used it on occasion when diagnosing plan 9 cpu server in the server room - it was a nice small machine to bring there. bulky it was - I have the bigger sleeve that allows use of two thin pcmcia cards (e.g. wifi and hard disk). I don't know exactly why I stopped using it... somehow the use I had for it disappeared, I guess. Axel. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-17 19:49 ` Axel Belinfante @ 2010-03-17 19:57 ` Axel Belinfante 2010-03-17 20:11 ` John Floren 0 siblings, 1 reply; 42+ messages in thread From: Axel Belinfante @ 2010-03-17 19:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2317 bytes --] > On Mar 17, 2010, at 20:13 , John Floren wrote: > >> On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 2:06 PM, Jack Johnson <knapjack@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 5:57 AM, Stuart Morrow >>> <morrow.stuart@googlemail.com> wrote: >>>> However, there is one "smart" feature that for me would be useful >>>> enough that >>>> carrying a big chunky thing that lives for a quarter of a day on >>>> battery might >>>> actually be worth it, and the feature is so damn trivial to do >>>> with Plan 9 - >>>> setting/unsetting the ring tone to/from silent in a cron job. >>> >>> I would like my ringtone volume to adjust periodically to the >>> ambient >>> noise, which also seems fairly trivial. >>> >>> What did you folks with bitsies and iPAQs find useful? Any of you >>> still packing one? >>> >>> -Jack >> >> I have fiddled with an iPAQ/bitsy on and off over the last few years. >> What's really nice about it is that you get access to a "real >> computer"; I booted wirelessly off my CPU server, which meant I had >> access to all my files and music, which was nice because the bitsy's >> sound hardware is supported. As long as you have a wireless >> connection, it's the best way to use a PDA. > Sorry to spam a bit more, but memory is returning... I wrote: > can agree to that. > used it to play music too, a bit. > > there was a time when I occasionally used it as small terminal, > at the university, at home, or even elsewhere, > to connect via vnc to a session running on the desktop at the office. > with a tiny font, an xterm would be big enough to read email via mh. > > I also used it on occasion when diagnosing plan 9 cpu server in > the server room - it was a nice small machine to bring there. I also used it to play games (sudoku, rush hour) > bulky it was - I have the bigger sleeve that allows > use of two thin pcmcia cards (e.g. wifi and hard disk). > > I don't know exactly why I stopped using it... > somehow the use I had for it disappeared, I guess. and there was also the issue that suspend/resume was not working for me, if I remember well (though it has been working for others - did it work for you, John?) and thus battery life was rather limited, unless I would shutdown/reboot every time, which was less convenient. Axel. [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 4426 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-17 19:57 ` Axel Belinfante @ 2010-03-17 20:11 ` John Floren 0 siblings, 0 replies; 42+ messages in thread From: John Floren @ 2010-03-17 20:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 3:57 PM, Axel Belinfante <Axel.Belinfante@cs.utwente.nl> wrote: > On Mar 17, 2010, at 20:13 , John Floren wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 2:06 PM, Jack Johnson <knapjack@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 5:57 AM, Stuart Morrow > > <morrow.stuart@googlemail.com> wrote: > > However, there is one "smart" feature that for me would be useful enough > that > > carrying a big chunky thing that lives for a quarter of a day on battery > might > > actually be worth it, and the feature is so damn trivial to do with Plan 9 - > > setting/unsetting the ring tone to/from silent in a cron job. > > I would like my ringtone volume to adjust periodically to the ambient > > noise, which also seems fairly trivial. > > What did you folks with bitsies and iPAQs find useful? Any of you > > still packing one? > > -Jack > > I have fiddled with an iPAQ/bitsy on and off over the last few years. > > What's really nice about it is that you get access to a "real > > computer"; I booted wirelessly off my CPU server, which meant I had > > access to all my files and music, which was nice because the bitsy's > > sound hardware is supported. As long as you have a wireless > > connection, it's the best way to use a PDA. > > > Sorry to spam a bit more, but memory is returning... > I wrote: > > can agree to that. > used it to play music too, a bit. > > there was a time when I occasionally used it as small terminal, > at the university, at home, or even elsewhere, > to connect via vnc to a session running on the desktop at the office. > with a tiny font, an xterm would be big enough to read email via mh. > > I also used it on occasion when diagnosing plan 9 cpu server in > the server room - it was a nice small machine to bring there. > > I also used it to play games (sudoku, rush hour) > > bulky it was - I have the bigger sleeve that allows > use of two thin pcmcia cards (e.g. wifi and hard disk). > > I don't know exactly why I stopped using it... > somehow the use I had for it disappeared, I guess. > > and there was also the issue that suspend/resume was > not working for me, if I remember well > (though it has been working for others - did it work for you, John?) > and thus battery life was rather limited, unless I would > shutdown/reboot every time, which was less convenient. > Axel. I seem to remember something like that. I don't recall exactly what it was. I might see if I still have the bitsy in storage somewhere, now that RIT has just installed a much more extensive wireless network. I think my biggest problem was with getting wireless set up. I was also unable to build a new image from source; I don't remember exactly the problem but I had to fall back on one you provided. Also, the keyboard gets kind of "squished" when the scribble area is displayed, the backspace key in particular was nearly impossible to hit. If I could have successfully built a new image, I could have disabled the scribble portion, but in my case I was out of luck. John -- "Object-oriented design is the roman numerals of computing" -- Rob Pike ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-17 18:06 ` Jack Johnson 2010-03-17 19:13 ` John Floren @ 2010-03-18 6:53 ` Tim Newsham 1 sibling, 0 replies; 42+ messages in thread From: Tim Newsham @ 2010-03-18 6:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs >> However, there is one "smart" feature that for me would be useful enough that >> carrying a big chunky thing that lives for a quarter of a day on battery might >> actually be worth it, and the feature is so damn trivial to do with Plan 9 - >> setting/unsetting the ring tone to/from silent in a cron job. > > I would like my ringtone volume to adjust periodically to the ambient > noise, which also seems fairly trivial. This is getting a little off-topic, but: http://www.androlib.com/android.application.com-strazz-nightringerfree-qpzD.aspx http://www.androlib.com/android.application.com-levelup-foxyringtrial-qxwE.aspx I imagine these are fairly easy to do in other smart phone platforms, too... > -Jack Tim Newsham | www.thenewsh.com/~newsham | thenewsh.blogspot.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-16 14:54 ` blstuart 2010-03-16 16:44 ` John Floren @ 2010-03-16 16:53 ` Jack Johnson 2010-03-16 17:10 ` Jack Johnson 1 sibling, 1 reply; 42+ messages in thread From: Jack Johnson @ 2010-03-16 16:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 5:54 AM, <blstuart@bellsouth.net> wrote: >> http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/15/qi-hardwares-tiny-hackable-ben-nanonote-now-shipping/ > > Okay, Maht. You just cost me $125 :) I just couldn't resist. I was wondering how you'd network one of those things: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_in_Nanonote -Jack ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-16 16:53 ` Jack Johnson @ 2010-03-16 17:10 ` Jack Johnson 2010-03-16 16:33 ` blstuart 2010-03-16 17:12 ` Jack Johnson 0 siblings, 2 replies; 42+ messages in thread From: Jack Johnson @ 2010-03-16 17:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 7:53 AM, Jack Johnson <knapjack@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 5:54 AM, <blstuart@bellsouth.net> wrote: >>> http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/15/qi-hardwares-tiny-hackable-ben-nanonote-now-shipping/ >> >> Okay, Maht. You just cost me $125 :) I just couldn't resist. > > I was wondering how you'd network one of those things: > > http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_in_Nanonote Off-topic-ish, that 320x240 screen is probably the biggest challenge, trying to find some usable UI in that space. I think the idea of a native Inferno port is great. Anyone doing anything fun on the UI side with the Nintendo DS port? It also looks like Android on this thing might be a possibility: http://www.laptopmag.net/3837-google-android-port-for-xburst-cpus-on-its-way.html ...so drawterm for Android might also be a worthwhile direction. -Jack ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-16 17:10 ` Jack Johnson @ 2010-03-16 16:33 ` blstuart 2010-03-16 18:20 ` ron minnich 2010-03-16 17:12 ` Jack Johnson 1 sibling, 1 reply; 42+ messages in thread From: blstuart @ 2010-03-16 16:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans >> I was wondering how you'd network one of those things: >> >> http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_in_Nanonote I thought that was terribly cute. The other option is talking PPP over the USB. You'd be tethered, but you could at least talk. > Off-topic-ish, that 320x240 screen is probably the biggest challenge, > trying to find some usable UI in that space. I think the idea of a > native Inferno port is great. Anyone doing anything fun on the UI side > with the Nintendo DS port? Yeah, that's what I was figuring too. Even at a 5x7 font, you can't do better than about a 50x30 character screen. If all the graphical elements in wm are shrunk down to somewhere around 10 pixels, it might just be possible to put a shell window that's almost usable. Acme in a single column might even work. Of course, I'd really like to have more resolution, but this is a start and who knows what we might see in a second generation. BLS ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-16 16:33 ` blstuart @ 2010-03-16 18:20 ` ron minnich 2010-03-16 19:24 ` blstuart 0 siblings, 1 reply; 42+ messages in thread From: ron minnich @ 2010-03-16 18:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs What flavor MIPS is it? 64 bit (I doubt it)? Is it a version that the compilers will like? ron ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-16 18:20 ` ron minnich @ 2010-03-16 19:24 ` blstuart 0 siblings, 0 replies; 42+ messages in thread From: blstuart @ 2010-03-16 19:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 9fans > What flavor MIPS is it? 64 bit (I doubt it)? Is it a version that the > compilers will like? Good point. I do know it's 32-bit, but so far that's all I know. Honestly, I had noticed it was MIPS and didn't really think any further about it. The good news is that both big-endian and little-endian compilers are there, and they're described as being for the M3000 family. I suspect (or hope anyway) that the processor on the device is a superset of the 3000, and given how old the 3000 is, that's probably not too unreasonable an expectation. BLS ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] more little hardware 2010-03-16 17:10 ` Jack Johnson 2010-03-16 16:33 ` blstuart @ 2010-03-16 17:12 ` Jack Johnson 1 sibling, 0 replies; 42+ messages in thread From: Jack Johnson @ 2010-03-16 17:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 8:10 AM, Jack Johnson <knapjack@gmail.com> wrote: > Off-topic-ish, that 320x240 screen is probably the biggest challenge, > trying to find some usable UI in that space. I think the idea of a > native Inferno port is great. Sorry, last of the blather. It also seems ideal for Octopus: http://plan9.escet.urjc.es/ls/octopus.html -Jack ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 42+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2010-03-28 14:33 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 42+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2010-03-16 17:52 [9fans] more little hardware Jonas Amoson 2010-03-16 17:24 ` blstuart -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below -- 2010-03-16 10:34 maht 2010-03-16 14:54 ` blstuart 2010-03-16 16:44 ` John Floren 2010-03-16 16:17 ` blstuart 2010-03-16 19:35 ` Tim Newsham 2010-03-16 19:46 ` John Floren 2010-03-17 4:03 ` Tim Newsham 2010-03-17 4:50 ` ron minnich 2010-03-17 14:38 ` David Leimbach 2010-03-18 6:59 ` Tim Newsham 2010-03-18 8:04 ` Steve Simon 2010-03-18 9:24 ` Gabriel Díaz 2010-03-18 14:36 ` David Leimbach 2010-03-18 15:42 ` Jorden Mauro 2010-03-24 22:28 ` Jack Johnson 2010-03-28 14:33 ` Georg Lehner 2010-03-18 12:46 ` erik quanstrom 2010-03-18 14:27 ` Patrick Kelly 2010-03-16 21:02 ` Patrick Kelly 2010-03-16 23:38 ` ron minnich 2010-03-16 23:47 ` Patrick Kelly 2010-03-17 9:05 ` Charles Forsyth 2010-03-17 14:02 ` Stuart Morrow 2010-03-17 9:35 ` hugh 2010-03-17 15:08 ` ron minnich 2010-03-17 2:05 ` David Arnold 2010-03-17 11:11 ` maht 2010-03-17 13:57 ` Stuart Morrow 2010-03-17 18:06 ` Jack Johnson 2010-03-17 19:13 ` John Floren 2010-03-17 19:49 ` Axel Belinfante 2010-03-17 19:57 ` Axel Belinfante 2010-03-17 20:11 ` John Floren 2010-03-18 6:53 ` Tim Newsham 2010-03-16 16:53 ` Jack Johnson 2010-03-16 17:10 ` Jack Johnson 2010-03-16 16:33 ` blstuart 2010-03-16 18:20 ` ron minnich 2010-03-16 19:24 ` blstuart 2010-03-16 17:12 ` Jack Johnson
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