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identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="sirjofri+ml-9fans@sirjofri.de"; helo=sirjofri.de; client-ip=5.45.105.127 Received: from sirjofri.de (sirjofri.de [5.45.105.127]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tb-mx0.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS for <9fans@9fans.net>; Wed, 15 May 2024 11:20:25 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from sirjofri+ml-9fans@sirjofri.de) Received: from dummy.faircode.eu ([95.90.217.91]) by sirjofri.de; Wed May 15 17:20:25 +0200 2024 Date: Wed, 15 May 2024 17:20:21 +0200 (GMT+02:00) From: sirjofri To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Message-ID: <7dae7c24-1d92-4cbe-bf77-0f25dea0c44e@sirjofri.de> In-Reply-To: References: <4FB3A3BB-1CFA-4BC7-9DC2-CC9138B8325C@gmail.com> <2f1ad69b-1318-4230-a40f-48bbafab81f3@app.fastmail.com> <65a54c1e-d042-49f2-9060-9c19a5154916@app.fastmail.com> <25cb6b4f-e91c-4cd6-85d4-305d574232c1@sirjofri.de> Subject: Re: Clarifying Lucio's Additional Requests [Was: Re: [9fans] List of companies that use Plan 9. ] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Correlation-ID: <7dae7c24-1d92-4cbe-bf77-0f25dea0c44e@sirjofri.de> Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: ab095542-12ce-11ef-a940-7442068c7b06 Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UOWJmNDBlOTQ0OGM4NzhhYi1NNTcxN2M0YzI5NmM4OTUwOWIwYzUz?= =?UTF-8?B?ZjYyPg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:M5717c4c296c89509b0c53f62:1:dztoNSU8neLKgqE693O6768mKLRqM5I9SBn2vwQ_tMg 15.05.2024 17:04:56 Don Bailey : > Yeah that's the thing, the few of us that have been around for 20 years e= njoyed the discussion as much as the engineering. But the discussion was al= ways around what to/not to do and how to do it. I was probably the biggest = outsider, as my career prior to diving into Plan 9 was classical violin. I = brought an art mindset to an engineering ecosystem and used the opportunity= to learn as much as I could from the Plan 9 guys, who I definitely conside= red my engineering heroes (and still do). I'll never forget the side conver= sations with jmk about how to go about testing kernel code and him=C2=A0bri= nging me "back down to Earth". One of many little encounters that honestly = have made me into a much more refined engineer today. Albeit, with still qu= ite a ways to grow :-)=C2=A0 I always enjoy when people work with the system, and not only "on" it. Havi= ng actual users make most sense to me. I mean, it's an operating system. Ha= ving users from non-dev side (like sl, who's a writer) is also great. That discussion type you describe is something I can see on the 9front mail= ing list and the 9fans discord. I really hope 9fans can turn back to that s= tate eventually. > I think it may just be harder for us "old heads" to understand how to fit= in with the modern communication style here. And I don't say this to be fi= ery or disrespectful, but a lot of the discussions come off paranoid and in= flammatory while simultaneously accusing everyone *else* of being quite the= same. It's very strange and is a big reason a lot of people have left or j= ust choose to lurk. That's why I like to end messages with the most neutral smiley I can find. = And I also try to read messages that way. Text can be rude, and I often eno= ugh find myself reading a text message in a discussion thread like a shakes= peare program: arguing, fighting. However, the writer almost never intended= to mean that! I also sometimes miss the fidonet messaging style. As far as I could experi= ence it, it was always friendly and constructive. > That said, I have been excited by the developments in the 9front and 9leg= acy, etc, groups, even if I don't fully agree with all the decision making.= It at least means people are still interested in building, and that's a go= od start...=C2=A0 Agreeing is not necessary. There are many topics where we don't have to agr= ee to be a community. For example, I'd like to see libxml in 9front, but th= e decision makers decided against it. More recently, people wished for foss= il to come back to 9front, but the decision makers decided against it. Both= have their reasons, and we can always fork off another fork and begin our = own distribution, or just have our own local version with our changes. Another example in the opposite direction: many users use various rio versi= ons with theming etc. I don't want that. It's not part of the distribution = (with very few exceptions), and it's 100% optional. We don't always have to agree, but as long as we can discuss things in peac= e and exchange information we can still be a community. sirjofri ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T9bf40e9448c878ab-M5717c= 4c296c89509b0c53f62 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription