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(gdb@dbsystems.com@47.184.216.224) by 0 with ESMTPA; 24 Nov 2019 18:37:55 -0000 From: David Butler Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_0AA7E370-F973-41D4-A9D5-D4412FA1C249" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3601.0.10\)) Subject: Re: [9fans] Is the vanilla Plan 9 still alive? Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2019 12:37:54 -0600 References: <0074AD32FE84CB7602D40AEE206BCCD9@eigenstate.org> To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <8278932D-EB4D-400C-A280-8C80520FF9C7@dbsystems.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3601.0.10) Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: 8cf20808-0ee9-11ea-89a4-983c5afc5d53 --Apple-Mail=_0AA7E370-F973-41D4-A9D5-D4412FA1C249 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 9fans, First let me agree that 9legacy.org is the best = destination for this thread, is there a living =E2=80=9Cvanilla" Plan9. = And by =E2=80=9Cvanilla=E2=80=9D I=E2=80=99m talking about what was = released and maintained by AT&T / Lucent / Alcatel, to the end, on = January 2015. I applaud the strategy of separating the patches from the = base code because it help clarify license issues. It leaves it to the = user of the code to resolve each patch=E2=80=99s ownership, accepting = those you can get reasonable license terms from and rejecting those that = you can=E2=80=99t. Look at the very last paragraph of = http://www.9legacy.org/patch.html . = David du Colombier explicitly provides a license for his patches. But = leaves all other submissions to the author. For example, I don=E2=80=99t = see a similar grant from another frequent patch supplier, Erik = Quanstrom. For interesting complexities, look at patch = http://www.9legacy.org/9legacy/patch/upas-nfs-p9p.diff = . It was = supplied by Russ Cox that says =E2=80=9CThis port is the work of David = du Colombier with contributions from Justin Bedo.=E2=80=9D What is the = license grant? As you can imagine, so goes every other Plan9 based code. As a result, = none of them are a good place to start, nor continue. I won=E2=80=99t = bore you with the details of my attempt to get reasonable license terms = (you can research the 9fans messages from many years ago), but corporate = lawyers kill great software. The situation was finally resolved in February 2014 when The University = of California, Berkeley received permission to release Plan9 under = GPLv2. (http://akaros.cs.berkeley.edu/akaros-web/news.php = ). =46rom that page = you can download the distribution here = or clone it from the = git repo . Dislike GPL all you like, but = it provides one, very fundamental, feature lacking in almost every other = =E2=80=9Cfree=E2=80=9D software license. The license is in force by = reading. There is no chase to figure out if a patch submitter granted a = compatible license. Or even if they have the right to! (You may be = surprised what you have to get your corporate employer to agree to in = this regard.) So, IMHO, all future work on Plan9 should be applied to the GPLv2 = release. Yes, orphaning all other Plan9 progress. They are only good for = hobby use. If you ever want to use Plan9 for profit, it better be based = on the GPLv2 code. David Butler > On Nov 24, 2019, at 11:07 AM, David du Colombier <0intro@gmail.com> = wrote: >=20 >> Actually, you know what, I should put my money >> where my mouth is. Would there be objections to >> me going through and fixing the links in the >> wiki so they point to 9p.io? >=20 > This is a good idea. Let me know how do you want to proceed. >=20 >> Is there anyone who would be comfortable explaining >> to me exactly the relationship between 9p.io and >> 9legacy, as well as how people are expected to use >> the two, so that I can put that into the wiki? >=20 > 9p.io is a mirror of the former Bell Labs website. >=20 > We're still accepting patches and people can > update their contrib directory. However, the > rest is mostly read-only. >=20 > 9legacy is the latest Plan 9 from Bell Labs sources > (2015-01-10) with addition of a few hundreds patches. > It's regularly updated. >=20 >> Is there anywhere that people would be comfortable >> blessing as a source for building new ISO images, >> to put behind the download link, with the accepted >> patches integrated? >=20 > That's mostly what 9legacy is. >=20 > --=20 > David du Colombier >=20 > ------------------------------------------ > 9fans: 9fans > Permalink: = https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T755e5f03f61e4ad9-M6e903bff791067b= bb961033c > Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription --Apple-Mail=_0AA7E370-F973-41D4-A9D5-D4412FA1C249 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 9fans,

First let me agree that 9legacy.org is the best destination for this thread, = is there a living =E2=80=9Cvanilla" Plan9. And by =E2=80=9Cvanilla=E2=80=9D= I=E2=80=99m talking about what was released and maintained by AT&T = / Lucent / Alcatel, to the end, on January 2015. I applaud the strategy = of separating the patches from the base code because it help clarify = license issues. It leaves it to the user of the code to resolve each = patch=E2=80=99s ownership, accepting those you can get reasonable = license terms from and rejecting those that you can=E2=80=99t. Look at = the very last paragraph of http://www.9legacy.org/patch.html. David du Colombier = explicitly provides a license for his patches. But leaves all other = submissions to the author. For example, I don=E2=80=99t see a similar = grant from another frequent patch supplier, Erik Quanstrom. For = interesting complexities, look at patch http://www.9legacy.org/9legacy/patch/upas-nfs-p9p.diff. = It was supplied by Russ Cox that says =E2=80=9CThis port is the work of = David du Colombier with contributions from Justin Bedo.=E2=80=9D What is = the license grant?

As you can imagine, so goes every other Plan9 based code. As = a result, none of them are a good place to start, nor continue. I = won=E2=80=99t bore you with the details of my attempt to get reasonable = license terms (you can research the 9fans messages from many years ago), = but corporate lawyers kill great software.

The situation was finally resolved in = February 2014 when The University of California, Berkeley received = permission to release Plan9 under GPLv2. (http://akaros.cs.berkeley.edu/akaros-web/news.php). =46rom = that page you can download the distribution here or clone it from the git repo. Dislike = GPL all you like, but it provides one, very fundamental, feature lacking = in almost every other =E2=80=9Cfree=E2=80=9D software license. The = license is in force by reading. There is no chase to figure out if a = patch submitter granted a compatible license. Or even if they have the = right to! (You may be surprised what you have to get your corporate = employer to agree to in this regard.)

So, IMHO, all future work on Plan9 = should be applied to the GPLv2 release. Yes, orphaning all other Plan9 = progress. They are only good for hobby use. If you ever want to use = Plan9 for profit, it better be based on the GPLv2 code.

David Butler

On Nov 24, 2019, at 11:07 AM, = David du Colombier <0intro@gmail.com> wrote:

Actually, you know what, = I should put my money
where my mouth is. Would there be = objections to
me going through and fixing the links in = the
wiki so they point to 9p.io?

This is = a good idea. Let me know how do you want to proceed.

Is there anyone who = would be comfortable explaining
to me exactly the = relationship between 9p.io = and
9legacy, as well as how people are expected to use
the two, so that I can put that into the wiki?

9p.io is a mirror of the former Bell Labs website.

We're still accepting patches and people = can
update their contrib directory. However, the
rest is mostly read-only.

9legacy = is the latest Plan 9 from Bell Labs sources
(2015-01-10) = with addition of a few hundreds patches.
It's regularly = updated.

Is there anywhere that people would be comfortable
blessing as a source for building new ISO images,
to put behind the download link, with the accepted
patches integrated?

That's mostly what 9legacy is.

-- =
David du Colombier

------------------------------------------
9fans:= 9fans
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