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From: "Bakul Shah via 9fans" <9fans@9fans.net>
To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>
Subject: Re: mmaping on plan9? (was Re: [9fans] venti /plan9port mmapped
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2026 20:34:32 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <82EE2DD2-38B5-4338-902B-A883A2727F39@iitbombay.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <17708854590.f343ba.4455@composer.9fans.topicbox.com>

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On Feb 12, 2026, at 12:37 AM, Alyssa M via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> wrote:
> 
> So what I'm suggesting is that instead of the programmer making an mmap call, they should make a single read call to read the entire file into the address space - as they did before. The new read implementation would do this, but as a memory mapped snapshot. This looks no different to the programmer from how reads have always worked, it just happens very quickly, because no I/O actually happens.
> The snapshot data is brought in by demand paging as it is touched, and pages may get dirtied.

The issue here is the read call is given a pre-allocated buffer. What you seem to want is the read call to return as soon as possible and pages get read in when accessed. For this to work, the kernel side read implementation has to free up (or set aside) these pages, invalidate pagetable entries & flush relevant TLB entries & later reverse this operation once a page is filled in.

It is better if you let the read call itself manage memory. This was explored in a 1994 paper: "The Alloc Stream Facility": https://www.eecg.toronto.edu/~stumm/Papers/Krieger-IEEEComputer94.pdf 
For example,

stream = Sopen(filename, flags, ...)
...
addr = SallocAt(stream, mode, &length, offset, whence)
// can access memory in [addr..addr+length)
Sfree(stream, addr)
...
Sclose(stream)

The idea is SallocAt() returns a ptr to read in data  for read mode (or space for write mode) for length amount. Actual length is returned in the length variable if the file is too short. Sfree() frees up space or pushes out the data to the underlying file. The alloc stream facility can in theory also use mmap under the hood.

One can think of mmap() as something like sallocAt() fpr page aligned data. An added benefit: the same underlying data page can be accessed from multiple address spaces in a similar way. Any attempt to overwrite would result in copy-on-write so that other clients see the old data snapshot. If you want to see any updates by other processes, you should use some higher level access protocol to do so safely.

Using mmap instead of read is likely less efficient but the idea is to factor out common IO patterns.





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  parent reply	other threads:[~2026-02-15  5:43 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 92+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2026-01-02 19:54 [9fans] venti /plan9port mmapped wb.kloke
2026-01-02 20:39 ` ori
2026-01-02 20:58   ` Bakul Shah via 9fans
2026-01-06 22:59     ` Ron Minnich
2026-01-07  4:27       ` Noam Preil
2026-01-07  6:15       ` Shawn Rutledge
2026-01-07 15:46         ` Persistent memory (was Re: [9fans] venti /plan9port mmapped) arnold
2026-01-07 16:11           ` Noam Preil
2026-01-07 17:26             ` Wes Kussmaul
2026-01-07  8:52       ` [9fans] venti /plan9port mmapped wb.kloke
2026-01-07 16:30         ` mmaping on plan9? (was " Bakul Shah via 9fans
2026-01-07 16:40           ` Noam Preil
2026-01-07 16:41           ` ori
2026-01-07 20:35             ` Bakul Shah via 9fans
2026-01-07 21:31               ` ron minnich
2026-01-08  7:56                 ` arnold
2026-01-08 10:31                 ` wb.kloke
2026-01-09  0:02                   ` ron minnich
2026-01-09  3:57                 ` Paul Lalonde
2026-01-09  5:10                   ` ron minnich
2026-01-09  5:18                     ` arnold
2026-01-09  6:06                       ` David Leimbach via 9fans
2026-01-09 17:13                         ` ron minnich
2026-01-09 17:39                         ` tlaronde
2026-01-09 19:48                           ` David Leimbach via 9fans
2026-02-05 21:30                             ` Alyssa M via 9fans
2026-02-08 14:18                               ` Ethan Azariah
2026-02-08 15:10                                 ` Alyssa M via 9fans
2026-02-08 20:43                                   ` Ethan Azariah
2026-02-09  1:35                                     ` ron minnich
2026-02-09 15:23                                       ` ron minnich
2026-02-09 17:13                                         ` Bakul Shah via 9fans
2026-02-09 21:38                                           ` ron minnich
2026-02-10 10:13                                         ` Alyssa M via 9fans
2026-02-11  1:43                                           ` Ron Minnich
2026-02-11  2:19                                           ` Bakul Shah via 9fans
2026-02-11  3:21                                           ` Ori Bernstein
2026-02-11 10:01                                             ` hiro
2026-02-12  1:36                                               ` Dan Cross
2026-02-12  5:39                                                 ` Alyssa M via 9fans
2026-02-12  9:08                                                   ` hiro via 9fans
2026-02-12 13:34                                                   ` Alyssa M via 9fans
2026-02-13 13:48                                                     ` hiro
2026-02-13 17:21                                                     ` ron minnich
2026-02-15 16:12                                                       ` Danny Wilkins via 9fans
2026-02-17  3:13                                                         ` Alyssa M via 9fans
2026-02-17 13:02                                                           ` Dan Cross
2026-02-17 16:00                                                             ` ron minnich
2026-02-17 16:39                                                               ` hiro
2026-02-17 16:56                                                             ` Bakul Shah via 9fans
2026-02-17 17:54                                                               ` hiro
2026-02-17 22:21                                                               ` Alyssa M via 9fans
2026-02-16  2:24                                                       ` Alyssa M via 9fans
2026-02-16  3:17                                                         ` Ori Bernstein
2026-02-16 10:55                                                           ` Frank D. Engel, Jr.
2026-02-16 13:49                                                             ` Ori Bernstein
2026-02-16 19:40                                                           ` Bakul Shah via 9fans
2026-02-16 19:43                                                             ` Bakul Shah via 9fans
2026-02-16  9:50                                                         ` tlaronde
2026-02-16 12:24                                                         ` hiro via 9fans
2026-02-16 12:33                                                         ` hiro via 9fans
2026-02-11 14:22                                             ` Dan Cross
2026-02-11 18:44                                               ` Ori Bernstein
2026-02-12  1:22                                                 ` Dan Cross
2026-02-12  4:26                                                   ` Ori Bernstein
2026-02-12  4:34                                                     ` Dan Cross
2026-02-12  3:12                                             ` Alyssa M via 9fans
2026-02-12  4:52                                               ` Dan Cross
2026-02-12  8:37                                                 ` Alyssa M via 9fans
2026-02-12 12:37                                                   ` hiro via 9fans
2026-02-13  1:36                                                   ` Dan Cross
2026-02-14  3:35                                                     ` Alyssa M via 9fans
2026-02-14 14:26                                                       ` Dan Cross
2026-02-15  4:34                                                   ` Bakul Shah via 9fans [this message]
2026-02-15 10:19                                                     ` hiro
2026-02-10 16:49                                         ` wb.kloke
2026-02-08 14:08                             ` Ethan Azariah
2026-01-07 21:40               ` ori
2026-01-07 16:52           ` ori
2026-01-07 17:37             ` wb.kloke
2026-01-07 17:46               ` Noam Preil
2026-01-07 17:56                 ` wb.kloke
2026-01-07 18:07                   ` Noam Preil
2026-01-07 18:58                     ` wb.kloke
2026-01-07 14:57       ` Thaddeus Woskowiak
2026-01-07 16:07         ` Wes Kussmaul
2026-01-07 16:22           ` Noam Preil
2026-01-07 17:31             ` Wes Kussmaul
2026-01-07 16:13         ` Noam Preil
2026-01-02 21:01   ` ori
2026-01-08 15:59     ` wb.kloke
2026-02-11 23:19       ` red

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