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Wed, 8 May 2024 17:52:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.11.0-alpha0-443-g0dc955c2a-fm-20240507.001-g0dc955c2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <84aa1c7f-1f39-43eb-81a2-b73cc432196a@app.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <53b297f4-31d4-48fd-86f4-6b5c2393edc0@app.fastmail.com> Date: Thu, 09 May 2024 06:52:04 +0900 From: vic.thacker@fastmail.fm To: "leimy2k via 9fans" <9fans@9fans.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: 4c8ee138-0d85-11ef-9212-8b395b379af5 Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UZGUyY2EyYWRkYTM4M2EzYS1NODE2Yjk0ZTY2ZjkyNzU3NDA4OGY2?= =?UTF-8?B?NjI4Pg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:M816b94e66f927574088f6628:1:aQVN0QoXARBB71JPxbbT4s4eSGYIV5pxTcwsidD8nm0 Hi Hiro et al, This mailing list is focused on Plan 9 discussions. Noticing conflicts bet= ween the 9legacy and 9front communities indicates that adopting collaborati= ve strategies could be advantageous. In my detailed post, I aimed to provi= de a comprehensive overview to fully encapsulate the topic. Having observe= d conflicts evolve over more than two decades, I am motivated to suggest im= provements rather than seeing history repeat itself. I contributed my comm= ents in hopes of fostering meaningful positive change. I value both 9front= and 9legacy but choose to remain neutral and refrain from taking sides. I= n my view, there's no advantage in picking sides, particularly among us 9fa= ns. The need for collaboration seems great, I'm astonished that more colla= boration hasn't happened over the years. Kind regards, Vester On Thu, May 9, 2024, at 05:10, hiro wrote: > vester, why do you recommend all these things so overly > methodologically that are all already a reality in the 9front > community? are you a bot? > > On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 9:18=E2=80=AFPM wrote: >> >> Dear Members of the 9legacy and 9front Communities, >> >> This message is intended to share thoughts on potential improvements to = collaborative processes between systems. The aim is to foster an environmen= t that encourages ongoing enhancement and mutual support. >> >> Community Efforts >> Appreciation is extended to all community members for their dedication i= n updating and maintaining these systems. Their efforts are vital to collec= tive progress. >> >> Community Dialogue >> An open forum for all members to share insights, discuss challenges, and= propose solutions related to system updates and integration efforts could = prove beneficial. Such dialogue can help better understand different perspe= ctives and formulate effective strategies collaboratively. >> >> Collaborative Working Group >> The creation of a working group to address specific technical challenges= , such as integrating the dp9ik security protocol, could facilitate smoothe= r and more efficient integration. Interested members might consider partici= pating in such a group. >> >> Transparency in Decision-Making >> Improving the transparency of decision-making processes is a goal. Shari= ng regular informational updates could keep everyone informed about the pro= gress and decisions that affect both communities. >> >> Inclusive Decision-Making Processes >> Exploring ways to ensure that decision-making processes reflect the comm= unity's needs and inputs is under consideration. Contributions on how to ac= hieve this are highly valued. >> >> Recognition Program >> Recognizing the hard work and achievements of community members is impor= tant. Plans to introduce a recognition program that highlights significant = contributions and successes are being explored. >> >> Addressing Historical Concerns >> Dedicating time to openly discuss historical concerns is crucial for mov= ing forward. This could help reconcile and strengthen community ties. >> >> Feedback on these suggestions and potential interest in participating in= these initiatives is invited. Contributions from community members are inv= aluable and will help shape the direction of collaborative efforts. >> >> Thank you for your engagement and commitment to the community. >> >> Best regards, >> Vester >> >> >> On Thu, May 9, 2024, at 01:29, Jacob Moody wrote: >> > On 5/8/24 11:06, Lucio De Re wrote: >> >> There is much I would like to explain, but the problem I am attemptin= g to solve ought to have an obvious answer that I am clearly missing. >> >> >> >> I can't seem to get a 9front workstation to mount a networked 9legacy= fossil service. The FS is a fairly pristine 9legacy installation, on a som= ewhat old 386 platform. I did need to tweak various parameters on both side= , but eventually I got to the point where both hosts declare that the conne= ction has been established; now on the 9front workstation I get the message >> >> "srv net!192.96.33.148!9fs: mount failed: fossil authCheck: auth = protocol not finished" >> >> I suspect the culprit is the lack of the newer "dp9ik" security on 9l= egacy, in which case it would be helpful to know how to work around that. >> > >> > Probably. Why not just temporarily disable auth checks for the fossil >> > 9legacy machine? >> > Or perhaps just take a disk/mkfs backup and tar that. You really have >> > chosen the most painful way of accomplishing this (which you seem to >> > acknowledge). >> > Or just exportfs the root? There are so many ways of just getting the >> > files. >> > >> >> >> >> Why am I mixing my platforms like this? Because the hardware on which= I am attempting to recover a rather large historical file system is split = between IDE and SATA and I have no hardware that can handle both disk modes= and I need to move information between the two media types. I am not descr= ibing all the dead ends I tried, incidentally, that would take too long and= really expose my limited understanding. >> >> >> >> It took almost a day to copy the Fossil cache (or lose a lot of the m= ost recent changes) and now I need (or at least want) to update the default= boot ("arenas") Venti configuration on a SATA drive which I can only acces= s on hardware I can't install 9legacy on. It's complicated and I'm sure the= re are people here who would not find this so daunting, but that's where I = am at. To be precise, I need to change the Fossil default configuration (in= the "fossil" cache) so it points to the correct Venti >> >> arenas. I'll deal with the analogous Venti situation when I get past = the total absence of Fossil tools on 9front. >> >> >> >> I guess I can port fossil/conf to 9front, but I'm not sure I have the= stomach to try that. Maybe now that I have raised the possibility... >> > >> > It sound like you're trying to make this someone else's problem. >> > Being stuck in a hardware pickle when there are ample existing software >> > solutions is not >> > a good reason to ask someone else to go out of their way to write >> > software. >> > >> > Fossil can be pulled in largely without modifications as I understand = it, >> > I don't run fossil but some people in the 9front community do and it d= oes >> > not appear to me that they've had issues with continuing to have it wo= rk >> > (other then fossil bugs itself). >> > >> >> >> >> I managed to share the Fossil cache through a NetBSD server providing= u9fs services, but that host does not have the capacity to store the Venti= arenas, nor can I really justify spending the amount of time it would take= to pass it between the 9legacy and 9front devices via NetBSD, no matter ho= w I try to arrange that. It does baffle me, though, that a NetBSD intermedi= ary is more competent than the two "native" platforms. >> > >> > Are you blaming us for moving on from AES 53 bit keys that can be brute >> > forced in an afternoon? >> > I have tried to open a dialogue for getting dp9ik on 9legacy a couple >> > times now, when I had brought it >> > up I am told to write the patch. Something about being asked to spend >> > the work to write a patch for 9legacy given >> > the historical context of why 9front exists does not sit right with me. >> > So it wont be me, sorry. >> > Sure it sucks that things have drifted, but all our code is there, >> > neatly organized out in to commits, if someone >> > wants to import our work it is readily available. However something >> > tells me most people are just going to use 9front as is. >> > >> > Good luck, >> > moody >> > ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tde2ca2adda383a3a-M816b9= 4e66f927574088f6628 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription