9fans - fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: lucio@proxima.alt.za
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: [9fans] interesting potential targets for plan 9 and/or inferno
Date: Fri,  9 Mar 2007 06:46:01 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <85efec7287ca2c788ada180639052e5e@proxima.alt.za> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <13426df10703081355y3cc3f4a8h744ca056b9c9c26d@mail.gmail.com>

> By 1993 Sun and other companies had made it impossible to get OS
> source. The vendors, who owned the clustering space at the time, cut
> their own throats by refusing to release source. People voted with
> their feet. Sound familiar? :-)

Yes, but the tune I hear in South Africa's business community today is
not greatly concerned with Open Source, it is concerned with
continuity.  I probably saved my primary client a few million Rands
(say a million US dollars) in licence fees and hardware costs in the
nearly twenty years I have consulted for them, but they will probably
spend it all (they have alredy spent most of it, I believe) to catch
up with their peers all of whom run Windows.  Why?  Because they
believe than no matter how large the costs, it is cheaper than to
depend on my skills, that after they have effectively refused to allow
me to train anyone in their organisation to replace me or even
tobecome familiar with the software I have supplied (NetBSD and a
hundred or so shell scripts for administration, one or two C programs,
a growing base of Apache/PHP/PostgreSQL applications), a "saving" I am
not including in my estimate.  So they believe that Windows will
"liberate" them from this dependency and I have no arguments to save
them from themselves.  In fact, any arguments I have would seem to be
in the opposite direction.

I could have run at least some of their needs on Plan 9: just Fossil
and Venti would have provided them with a backup facility that much
more closely matches their operation.  But they are not willing to pay
the cost of research nor the risk of failure, so they have to do
without.  Thing is, they would not understand the difference and
therefore would still want to migrate to what they like to call
"industry standard".

Apropos of Plan 9, the matter is that my client, like most "users",
are terrified of being different.  They believe in the comfort of
"convention".  Plan 9 isn't for them, not yet, possibly not ever.  But
some people buy Ferraris even though there are very few mechanics that
can look after them.  They know that what they want doesn't come
cheaply and are willing to pay for it.  I would far rather Plan 9
presented itself as the Ferrari of operating systems (after all, it's
the F40 that has a piece of steel cord in a nylon pipe to open the
door from the inside, isn't it?) than that it aimed itself at my
client's staff whose ignorance concerning computing is frightening.
Let them have Windows, if that's what they want.  And if Linux
(specially UBUNTU) is capable of filling the middle-class slot,
magnificent, too.  But to see where computing could be, you have to
look at the operating systems that didn't become mundane: Plan 9
first, QNX, BeOS, no doubt some others.

++L

PS: The Ferrari analogy is new to me.  But I think its aptness is
real.



  reply	other threads:[~2007-03-09  4:46 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 140+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2007-02-25 14:32 ron minnich
2007-02-25 14:58 ` erik quanstrom
2007-02-25 19:49   ` Eric Van Hensbergen
2007-02-25 20:09     ` erik quanstrom
2007-02-25 14:59 ` Martin Neubauer
2007-02-25 15:50   ` fgergo
2007-02-25 22:34     ` erik quanstrom
2007-02-26  8:49       ` fgergo
2007-02-26  9:19         ` ron minnich
2007-02-26  9:53           ` Richard Miller
2007-02-26 11:47             ` ron minnich
2007-02-26 22:18               ` cummij
2007-02-26 11:50           ` Martin Neubauer
2007-02-26 12:50           ` erik quanstrom
2007-02-26 15:08             ` ron minnich
2007-02-26 15:13               ` Lluís Batlle
2007-02-26 15:54               ` Eric Van Hensbergen
2007-02-26 17:28                 ` Paul Lalonde
2007-02-26 18:56                   ` Joel C. Salomon
2007-02-26 18:58                 ` Charles Forsyth
2007-02-27 16:08                   ` Salva Peiró
2007-02-26 18:12               ` John Floren
2007-02-26 18:39               ` Joel C. Salomon
2007-02-26 19:05                 ` John Floren
2007-02-26 19:38                   ` David Leimbach
2007-03-06 19:33               ` bride of excession
2007-03-06 20:27                 ` ron minnich
2007-03-06 21:56                   ` matt
2007-03-06 22:37                     ` Eric Van Hensbergen
2007-03-06 23:08                       ` C H Forsyth
2007-03-06 23:12                         ` Skip Tavakkolian
2007-03-06 23:18                           ` ron minnich
2007-03-07  4:21                             ` David Leimbach
2007-03-07  3:48                     ` lucio
2007-03-07  4:13                       ` lucio
2007-03-07  4:23                       ` David Leimbach
2007-03-07  5:52                       ` Vester Thacker
2007-03-07  6:02                         ` ron minnich
2007-03-07  6:16                           ` Vester Thacker
2007-03-07  6:42                             ` ron minnich
2007-03-07  8:28                               ` Bakul Shah
2007-03-07 11:50                               ` Martin Neubauer
2007-03-07 21:21                                 ` John Osborne
2007-03-07 22:47                                   ` Markus Sonderegger
2007-03-08  0:41                                   ` Martin Neubauer
2007-03-07 21:31                                 ` Paweł Lasek
2007-03-07 13:47                               ` Eric Van Hensbergen
2007-03-07 14:22                                 ` erik quanstrom
2007-03-07 18:05                                   ` Skip Tavakkolian
2007-03-07 18:38                                     ` erik quanstrom
2007-03-07 18:06                                   ` Eric Van Hensbergen
2007-03-07 18:30                                     ` lucio
2007-03-07 16:55                               ` Jack Johnson
2007-03-07 20:34                               ` matt
2007-03-14 16:31                               ` bride of excession
2007-03-07  6:59                             ` Bruce Ellis
2007-03-07  8:02                         ` csant
2007-03-07 10:04                           ` cej
2007-03-07 10:17                             ` C H Forsyth
2007-03-07 12:50                               ` Kenneth Long
2007-03-07 14:04                                 ` C H Forsyth
2007-03-07 18:28                                   ` Geoffrey Avila
2007-03-07 18:35                                     ` lucio
2007-03-07 16:53                           ` Lyndon Nerenberg
2007-03-07 17:18                             ` erik quanstrom
2007-03-07 17:40                               ` Jack Johnson
2007-03-07 17:43                                 ` andrey mirtchovski
2007-03-07 18:41                                   ` Robert Sherwood
2007-03-07 19:01                                     ` C H Forsyth
2007-03-07 19:03                                     ` Geoffrey Avila
2007-03-08  1:16                                     ` Lyndon Nerenberg
2007-03-08  4:59                                       ` Lyndon Nerenberg
2007-03-08 15:02                                         ` David Leimbach
2007-03-08 15:32                                           ` Martin Neubauer
2007-03-08 10:11                                       ` cej
2007-03-08 14:03                                         ` Gorka Guardiola
2007-03-08 14:09                                           ` erik quanstrom
2007-03-07 18:27                                 ` lucio
2007-03-08  0:28                               ` David Leimbach
2007-03-08  0:45                                 ` don bailey
2007-03-08  1:48                                   ` geoff
2007-03-08  2:19                                     ` Jack Johnson
2007-03-08  8:32                                       ` matt
2007-03-08 15:03                                         ` David Leimbach
2007-03-08 15:09                                           ` erik quanstrom
2007-03-08 15:24                                             ` Charles Forsyth
2007-03-08 16:33                                             ` David Leimbach
2007-03-08  2:45                                     ` Anthony Sorace
2007-03-08 19:02                                   ` Geoffrey Avila
2007-03-08 19:41                                     ` Boris Maryshev
2007-03-08 21:02                                       ` matt
2007-03-08 21:55                                         ` ron minnich
2007-03-09  4:46                                           ` lucio [this message]
2007-03-13 13:38                                             ` Harri Haataja
2007-03-09  4:17                                         ` lucio
2007-03-09 11:31                                         ` [9fans] " app
2007-03-09 15:52                                           ` David Leimbach
2007-03-09 22:08                                             ` Elbing Miss
2007-03-09 22:43                                               ` David Leimbach
2007-03-12  8:45                                   ` [9fans] " Dave Eckhardt
2007-03-12 10:06                                     ` lejatorn
2007-03-12 16:55                                       ` Skip Tavakkolian
2007-03-12 17:37                                         ` lejatorn
2007-03-12 17:43                                           ` David Leimbach
2007-03-13 13:54                                     ` Harri Haataja
2007-03-13 13:59                                       ` erik quanstrom
2007-03-14  4:05                                       ` Jack Johnson
2007-03-14  4:26                                     ` Noah Evans
2007-03-14  4:33                                       ` lucio
2007-03-14  5:13                                         ` Noah Evans
2007-03-15 14:47                                           ` lucio
2007-03-15 17:57                                             ` Devon H. O'Dell
2007-03-15 18:10                                               ` lucio
2007-03-15 18:36                                                 ` Devon H. O'Dell
2007-03-15 19:28                                                   ` lucio
2007-03-16  8:20                                                     ` Harri Haataja
2007-03-16  8:31                                                       ` Uriel
2007-03-15 23:53                                             ` Noah Evans
2007-03-16  4:41                                               ` lucio
2007-03-16  8:06                                                 ` Geoffrey Avila
2007-03-16 12:33                                                 ` Eric Van Hensbergen
2007-03-16 14:13                                                 ` C H Forsyth
2007-03-14  4:40                                       ` Jack Johnson
2007-03-14  6:06                                       ` Gabriel Díaz
2007-03-14  9:29                                         ` Charles Forsyth
2007-03-14  9:57                                       ` matt
2007-03-14 12:52                                         ` erik quanstrom
2007-03-08 18:34                                 ` Wes Kussmaul
2007-03-08 18:44                                   ` Paul Lalonde
2007-03-06 22:23                   ` Robert Hibberdine
2007-03-06 22:28                   ` John Floren
2007-03-12 12:17                     ` Harri Haataja
2007-03-06 23:17                 ` C H Forsyth
2007-03-06 23:21                   ` geoff
2007-03-07  0:48                     ` John Floren
2007-02-26 14:32           ` Joel C. Salomon
2007-02-26 15:19           ` Latchesar Ionkov
2007-03-14  5:21 YAMANASHI Takeshi
2007-03-14  9:36 ` Charles Forsyth
2007-03-14  6:15 YAMANASHI Takeshi

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=85efec7287ca2c788ada180639052e5e@proxima.alt.za \
    --to=lucio@proxima.alt.za \
    --cc=9fans@cse.psu.edu \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).