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Tue, 21 Sep 2021 05:02:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.5.0-alpha0-1291-gc66fc0a3a2-fm-20210913.001-gc66fc0a3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <8d600d7f-216b-4af0-acc6-f9c27b5ba6a5@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <15937.1632116621@lunacy.ugrad.cs.cmu.edu> <565ccec9-0efb-45ad-9d08-dbfe6ed35bd5@www.fastmail.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2021 10:01:22 +0100 From: "Ethan Gardener" To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Subject: Re: [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: af63c97e-1aba-11ec-9c5a-927b43cab3fd Archived-At: =?UTF-8?B?PGh0dHBzOi8vOWZhbnMudG9waWNib3guY29tL2dyb3Vwcy85?= =?UTF-8?B?ZmFucy9UMzlhZWM4ZjNmOWQ4NTAzZC1NMGUwY2ZhZGIwOTllMmIwY2VmNTlk?= =?UTF-8?B?ZTEwPg==?= List-Help: List-Id: "9fans" <9fans.9fans.net> List-Post: List-Software: Topicbox v0 List-Subscribe: Precedence: list Reply-To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable List-Unsubscribe: , Topicbox-Delivery-ID: 2:9fans:437d30aa-c441-11e9-8a57-d036212d11b0:522be890-2105-11eb-b15e-8d699134e1fa:M0e0cfadb099e2b0cef59de10:1:TEerR97LJUaQC2OK3UC3wjHq_kr8WNqMNx8FUndePCU On Mon, Sep 20, 2021, at 9:23 AM, hiro wrote: > i think the main reason people are willing to fall for the android > platform is bec. there is no good long-term supply of updated phone > hardware with backwards-compatible interfaces. Probably, but when do Linux kernel interfaces remain backwards-compatible? = :) I've seen the sysfs battery-monitoring files change beyond all recogniti= on. > a lot of qualcomm and mediatek chipsets are being built, but instead > of documentation they only ship half-baked linux drivers, which are > often not even mainlined. > > those linux drivers are already hard to make work on actual linux > distributions, or even on android distributions. > > who wants to reverse-engineer the hardware over and over again based > on such linux drivers... Quite, but feeling such pressure may be based on a false perspective. I've = had 3 phones in the last 8 years, and I've upgraded to avoid falling too fa= r behind with Android rather than carrier changes or hardware failures. The= first of my 3 phones is capable of 4G, so I could have upgraded only once = or even not at all. It's still in perfect condition. If you're not concerne= d with keeping up with Android or feeding poor impoverished phone manufactu= rers and the many shareholders who depend on them, ;-) then upgrading once = every 5 years is entirely fine and once every 10 years may be acceptable. I= think that cuts down the workload a bit. :) On the other hand, using parts of Android is a way to make use of hardware = you already value. I keep trying to think of ways to use my 8 year old phon= e because it's the only phone I've ever had with adequate sound quality. Pe= rhaps I should just ask about sound quality on... maybe XDA forums or somet= hing. > On 9/20/21, Ethan Gardener wrote: >> tl;dr: forget inferno, port plan 9 to the pine phone. >> >> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021, at 6:43 AM, Dave Eckhardt wrote: >>> > Anyone know if this project went anywhere? >>> > >>> > https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~412/lectures/L05_Purge_Proposal.pdf >> >> I had to laugh at one of the slides. Inferno running natively on "x86 >> supercomputer"? I think implementing multicore support would be a first >> step, not to mention 64-bit! While it would be nice if those jobs were d= one, >> they will take time and effort. Overall, if porting natively, I see litt= le >> sense in preferring Inferno to Plan 9, especially as Plan 9 already supp= orts >> 64-bit multicore. >> >>> Sadly, not. One issue is that modern Android releases don't >>> support 32-bit executables, and at the time that project was >>> attempted Inferno was somewhat 32-bit (I haven't looked since). >> >> Recalling the issues Hellaphone had and the time it took, I'm of the opi= nion >> that getting Inferno to work on any given phone's Linux kernel is hardly >> more worthwhile than porting it directly to the hardware. The kernels ha= ve >> undocumented interfaces. >> >> A current thread on OSdev (operating system development) forums is looki= ng >> at phones. It's a little rambly, but it reports on some encouraging thin= gs. >> Lots of "baseband processors" (the phone-network communication subsystem= s) >> have documented interfaces. There are at least 2 phones available now wh= ich >> are fully open for operating system development: the PinePhone and the >> Librem 5. (5 is the screen size.) Of the 2, the Pine Phone seems better,= not >> least because it can boot from the SD card; useful for testing. >> https://forum.osdev.org/viewtopic.php?f=3D1&t=3D53251 >> >> There's also the option of building your own phone out of components. The >> thread has some info. I'm guessing most here would prefer a PinePhone. >> >>> But I think I saw some recent-ish Inferno-on-Android activity here: >>> >>> https://github.com/bhgv/Inferno-OS-bhgv >>=20 >> That's probably a good source of code. bhgv is a freelance programmer who >> was very interested in Inferno and made several improvements including >> Truetype fonts. The last I heard was he tried to find paid work involving >> Inferno but couldn't, so he didn't have time to work on it. ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T39aec8f3f9d8503d-M0e0cf= adb099e2b0cef59de10 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription