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From: Geoff Collyer <geoff@collyer.net>
To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way
Date: Thu,  8 May 2003 18:12:40 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <8f7f959101c16201a81884c7ffa3e205@collyer.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0305080851130.15115-100000@athena>

This is a somewhat rambling discussion, but I'll throw in my 2 cents
on several, perhaps related, topics.

The conventional monolithic, one-machine-does-it-all `desktop' PC
already seems like a throwback to 1960's mainframe (S/360) thinking
(except that pre-XA 370s were too small to run Netscape!).  Laptops,
PDAs, ipaqs, ipods, and increasing use of wireless technologies
suggest that `the future of the desktop PC' may not matter a great
deal.

30 years ago it looked like we'd never be rid of the IBM 360/370
architecture and accompanying IBM software.  It's still with us, but
isn't the plague on computing it once was.  20 years ago, one could
say ``All the world's a VAX'' with a straight face; no more.  15 years
ago, one could say ``All the world's a Sun'' with a straight face; no
more.  All the world may look like an x86 PC today, but This Too Shall
Pass.  And that's ignoring the embedded-systems market: the software
in your printer, router, firewall, wireless widget, and perhaps your
car is almost certainly not Windows 2000 and the processor is likely a
MIPS or ARM chip or 68000 ASIC, not an x86.  So far, at least, in the
history of computing, no single architecture dominates forever (it
just seems that way).

I'm not sure what advantage one could obtain from an
`architecture-dependent' kernel.  There might be a slight performance
gain, but given the speed, and rate of increase, of modern processors,
who cares?  Wait a week or a month and you can buy the performance
gain without changing any code.  A kernel dedicated to a single
architecture would likely be less clean than one intended for broader
use, and the history of manufacturers' operating systems dedicated to
particular architectures isn't encouraging; these systems tended to be
strangely designed (to be polite) and lacking in function, which isn't
too surprising, since they existed mainly to sell hardware, and so had
to be just good enough to help sell machines.

There are other reasons than raw computing power to want multiple
processors.  The one I like best is the ability to absorb load while
remaining responsive.  An MP terminal holds up under load.  If you've
ever used a Unix workstation running X, you've probably seen the
machine ignore your mouse movements and keystrokes when it gets busy.
Plan 9 terminals are less prone to this, but with an extra processor,
it virtually never happens.  MP cpu servers are pleasant places to do
heavy work since they too degrade gracefully under load.

Furthermore, the supposed complexity in Plan 9 due to support for
multiprocessing seems to be mainly getting locking right, which is
worth doing even with just one processor.  I don't believe that we pay
a huge cost in code complexity or performance for SMP support.

Central file storage simplifies backup and retrieval.  The more places
you have files stored, the more care it takes to ensure that they are
really getting backed up, and the more places you may have to look
when you can't remember where you stored something.  Of course, google
now sells an appliance to index and search one's files...

I suspect that programmer ability matters more than choice of
language.  I've been looking at an MP3 decoder.  It's 8,000
non-comment lines of C, many of them duplicated (dup -t1 reports that
26% of the source is redundant).  Functions ramble on for hundreds of
lines.  The code is littered with unexplained magic numbers.  None of
this is encouraged by C: functions are easy to write and cheap to
call; enum or even #define provide easy ways to declare manifest
constants.  (For sheer humour value, though, one has to look to
sendmail:

; funclen *.c | sort -nr | sed 20q
2627	main.c:152,2779	main()
2510	srvrsmtp.c:338,2848	smtp()
2301	deliver.c:1251,3552	deliver()
1468	readcf.c:2130,3598	setoption()
782	daemon.c:147,929	getrequests()
754	daemon.c:2010,2764	makeconnection()
746	map.c:4066,4812	ldapmap_parseargs()
712	deliver.c:70,782	sendall()
673	queue.c:3783,4456	readqf()
661	recipient.c:444,1105	recipient()
620	parseaddr.c:941,1561	rewrite()
590	savemail.c:760,1350	errbody()
588	queue.c:322,910	queueup()
583	collect.c:289,872	collect()
575	readcf.c:88,663	readcf()
571	mime.c:99,670	mime8to7()
538	deliver.c:4988,5526	mailfile()
533	milter.c:564,1097	milter_open()
513	queue.c:1738,2251	run_work_group()
502	deliver.c:4444,4946	putbody()
)



  parent reply	other threads:[~2003-05-09  1:12 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 700+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2003-04-23  9:16 [9fans] same functions everywhere paurea
2003-04-23 15:05 ` Russ Cox
2003-04-23 15:29   ` paurea
2003-04-23 15:32     ` Fco.J.Ballesteros
2003-04-23 17:33       ` rob pike, esq.
2003-04-24 12:02         ` paurea
2003-04-24 12:20           ` Charles Forsyth
2003-04-24 14:39           ` Sam
2003-04-24 14:48             ` Sam
2003-04-29  5:04           ` Boyd Roberts
2003-04-24  1:31     ` okamoto
2003-04-29  5:43       ` Boyd Roberts
2003-04-25 10:40 ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2003-04-25 11:46   ` Fco.J.Ballesteros
2003-04-30  8:41     ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2003-04-30 20:08       ` Joel Salomon
2003-04-30 20:11         ` rsc
2003-04-30 20:29           ` Scott Schwartz
2003-05-01  9:07             ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2003-05-01 16:00               ` Scott Schwartz
2003-05-07  4:53                 ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-07 11:03                   ` northern snowfall
2003-05-07 10:40                     ` Lucio De Re
2003-05-07 13:05                       ` northern snowfall
2003-05-07 12:25                         ` Lucio De Re
2003-05-07 13:34                           ` northern snowfall
2003-05-07 13:56                             ` northern snowfall
2003-05-27  9:22                             ` Ralph Corderoy
2003-05-27 10:48                               ` northern snowfall
2003-05-07 12:33                         ` David Butler
2003-05-07 13:40                           ` northern snowfall
2003-05-07 14:33                       ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-08  9:08                       ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2003-05-08  9:49                         ` Bruce Ellis
2003-05-08 13:20                           ` rog
2003-05-27  9:22                       ` Ralph Corderoy
2003-05-07 14:17                     ` C (Was: [9fans] same functions everywhere) Sam
2003-05-07 16:32                       ` northern snowfall
2003-05-07 16:33                         ` [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way Sam
2003-05-07 17:34                           ` Fco.J.Ballesteros
2003-05-07 20:01                           ` David Presotto
2003-05-07 20:34                             ` Stephen Wynne
2003-05-07 21:57                               ` Steve Kotsopoulos
2003-05-08  4:14                               ` A.S. Kukhar
2003-05-08 17:04                               ` Dan Cross
2003-05-09 19:14                                 ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-07 22:33                             ` Sam
2003-05-08  0:46                               ` northern snowfall
2003-05-08 16:04                                 ` Sam
2003-05-08 17:08                                   ` Russ Cox
2003-05-09  1:12                                   ` Geoff Collyer [this message]
2003-05-08 17:26                                 ` Dan Cross
2003-05-09  1:12                                   ` northern snowfall
2003-05-09  0:49                                     ` Dan Cross
2003-05-09  1:07                                       ` Joel Salomon
2003-05-09  2:53                                         ` ron minnich
2003-05-09  8:36                                         ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2003-05-09 14:29                                           ` ron minnich
2003-05-09 15:41                                             ` northern snowfall
2003-05-09  2:18                                       ` northern snowfall
2003-05-09  7:55                                 ` Taj Khattra
2003-05-09  9:48                                   ` northern snowfall
2003-05-09 19:52                                     ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-09 20:47                                       ` David Presotto
2003-05-10  2:56                                         ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-14 18:55                                     ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-08  4:04                               ` Russ Cox
2003-05-08  0:20                           ` northern snowfall
2003-05-19  9:46                           ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-08  9:08                       ` C (Was: [9fans] same functions everywhere) Douglas A. Gwyn
2003-05-07 14:43                     ` [9fans] same functions everywhere Russ Cox
2003-05-07 15:47                       ` northern snowfall
2003-05-07 14:53                         ` Jack Johnson
2003-05-07 16:08                           ` northern snowfall
2003-05-08  9:08                         ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2003-05-07 16:01                       ` Scott Schwartz
2003-05-08  9:08                     ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2003-05-15 15:37                     ` Brian Inglis
2003-05-15 16:19                       ` Russ Cox
2003-05-01  9:07           ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2003-05-01 13:55             ` Russ Cox
2003-05-01 17:17               ` Joel Salomon
2003-05-01 17:21                 ` rsc
2003-05-01 18:01                   ` Joel Salomon
2003-05-01 18:11                     ` rsc
2003-05-02  9:24                       ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2003-05-02 16:28                         ` rob pike, esq.
2003-05-05 22:16                           ` Andrew Simmons
2003-05-06  9:09                           ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2003-05-06 15:46                             ` Joel Salomon
2003-05-06 18:43                             ` rog
2003-05-07  8:43                               ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2003-05-07 15:06                                 ` rog
2003-05-07 16:25                                   ` Scott Schwartz
2003-05-08 14:40                                     ` rog
2003-05-08  9:08                                   ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2003-05-08 13:12                                     ` rog
2003-05-09  8:36                                       ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2003-05-09 13:21                                         ` rog
2003-05-09 16:19                                           ` John Murdie
2003-05-09 18:24                                             ` northern snowfall
2003-05-10 17:17                                               ` John Murdie
2003-05-10 17:59                                                 ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-10 18:04                                                 ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-12  8:56                                                 ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2003-05-12  9:26                                                   ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-12 13:19                                                   ` David Presotto
2003-05-12 13:23                                                     ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-12 14:46                                                     ` complex embedded systems was " David Butler
2003-05-12 17:21                                                       ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-12 17:45                                                   ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-12 17:22                                             ` rog
2003-05-12 17:30                                               ` [9fans] (Re:) Exception handling Sape Mullender
2003-05-12 17:32                                                 ` Russ Cox
2003-05-12 17:38                                                   ` Fco.J.Ballesteros
2003-05-12 17:42                                                     ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-13  8:28                                                       ` Fco.J.Ballesteros
2003-05-12 20:30                                                   ` Dan Cross
2003-05-12 20:37                                                     ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-12 17:32                                                 ` Russ Cox
2003-05-12 18:13                                                   ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-12 20:30                                                   ` Dan Cross
2003-05-12 20:38                                                     ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-12 17:41                                                 ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-12 17:36                                               ` [9fans] same functions everywhere boyd, rounin
2003-05-13 12:24                                                 ` rog
2003-05-14  9:27                                                   ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-09 16:46                                           ` Dan Cross
2003-05-12  8:55                                           ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2003-05-12 15:51                                             ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-12 16:48                                               ` rog
2003-05-12 16:54                                                 ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-13  8:33                                               ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2003-05-13 14:18                                                 ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-19  9:46                                         ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-08 17:11                             ` Dan Cross
2003-05-08 17:24                               ` Russ Cox
2003-05-08 18:14                                 ` Dan Cross
2003-05-08 18:21                                   ` root
2003-05-08 18:33                                     ` William Ahern
2003-05-08 19:21                                       ` Dan Cross
2003-05-08 19:06                                     ` Dan Cross
2003-05-08 18:35                                   ` Joel Salomon
2003-05-08 18:40                                     ` Scott Schwartz
2003-05-08 19:03                                       ` Dan Cross
2003-05-08 19:52                                       ` rog
2003-05-08 22:50                                         ` Dan Cross
2003-05-09  2:55                                           ` rog
2003-05-09  0:12                                             ` Dan Cross
2003-05-08 18:40                                     ` Charles Forsyth
2003-05-09  8:36                               ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2003-05-08  6:45                           ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-14  8:57                           ` [9fans] exception handling caused the Ariane 5 rocket accident Anssi Porttikivi
2003-05-15  9:21                             ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2003-05-15 12:34                               ` Dan Cross
2003-05-15 10:35                             ` Mário Amado Alves
2003-05-15 10:47                               ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-15 11:29                                 ` Jim Choate
2003-05-15 11:42                                   ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-15 11:50                                     ` [9fans] " Jim Choate
2003-05-15 11:57                                       ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-15 17:03                                       ` northern snowfall
2003-05-08  6:41                         ` [9fans] same functions everywhere boyd, rounin
2003-05-02  6:08                   ` Taj Khattra
2003-05-02 11:07                 ` FJ Ballesteros
2003-05-07  4:44           ` Boyd Roberts
2003-05-07  4:21       ` Boyd Roberts
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2003-11-11  1:38 [9fans] POSIXy V7 sh Dennis Ritchie
2003-11-11  2:19 ` Geoff Collyer
2003-11-11  9:09 ` Richard Miller
2003-11-12 11:14 ` Boyd Roberts
2003-11-12 13:08   ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2003-11-12 19:55     ` Steve Kilbane
2003-08-16 22:03 [9fans] 4e sam for unix Scott Schwartz
2003-08-16 23:01 ` boyd, rounin
2003-08-17  9:56   ` Steve Kilbane
2003-07-11  2:01 [9fans] Fork: useless and painful? Andrew Simmons
2003-07-11  2:17 ` David Presotto
2003-07-11  2:29   ` boyd, rounin
     [not found]   ` <presotto@closedmind.org>
2003-05-10  0:13     ` [9fans] struct problems David Presotto
2003-05-10  0:22       ` Scott Schwartz
2003-05-10  4:49       ` Skip Tavakkolian
2003-05-10  4:52         ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-10  5:20           ` Skip Tavakkolian
2003-05-10  5:19             ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-10  7:11           ` Dennis Ritchie
2003-05-10 16:53             ` matt
2003-05-10 16:58               ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-10 16:58               ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-10 18:08                 ` northern snowfall
2003-05-10 17:12                   ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-10 22:34                   ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-10 23:09             ` jmk
2003-05-10 23:16               ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-11  2:07                 ` rob pike, esq.
2003-05-11  2:26                   ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-11  3:48                 ` Dennis Ritchie
2003-05-11  3:54                   ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-10 23:26               ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-11  2:06               ` rob pike, esq.
2003-05-10 23:54             ` Skip Tavakkolian
2003-05-11  2:08               ` rob pike, esq.
2003-05-11  2:31                 ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-11  6:04                   ` rob pike, esq.
2003-05-11  7:03                     ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-12  8:56           ` Anthony Mandic
2003-05-12  9:27             ` boyd, rounin
2003-07-13 19:44     ` [9fans] Fork: useless and painful? Andrew Lynch
2003-07-11  2:32 ` boyd, rounin
2003-07-11 10:59 ` matt
2003-06-25 20:36 [9fans] ipconfig dhcp vs ndb Scott Schwartz
2003-06-25 20:44 ` David Presotto
2003-06-25 20:50   ` Scott Schwartz
2003-08-06 17:01     ` David Presotto
2003-06-24 14:41 [9fans] mail problems Apurva Mehta
2003-06-24 15:24 ` Dan Cross
2003-06-24 16:34   ` Apurva Mehta
2003-06-25  0:13     ` Russ Cox
2003-06-25  9:21       ` Richard Miller, miller
2003-06-26  1:58         ` Russ Cox
2003-06-26  2:21           ` Scott Schwartz
2003-06-26  2:30             ` boyd, rounin
2003-06-26  2:36               ` Scott Schwartz
2003-06-26  2:44                 ` boyd, rounin
2003-06-26  3:07                   ` Scott Schwartz
2003-06-26  3:13                     ` boyd, rounin
2003-06-26  3:21                       ` Dan Cross
2003-06-26  3:32                         ` boyd, rounin
2003-06-26  3:35                           ` andrey mirtchovski
2003-06-26  3:41                             ` boyd, rounin
2003-06-26  4:03                               ` andrey mirtchovski
2003-06-26  5:15                           ` okamoto
2003-06-26 10:36                             ` boyd, rounin
2003-06-26  3:53                       ` Scott Schwartz
2003-06-26 11:12                         ` boyd, rounin
2003-06-26 13:17                           ` matt
2003-06-26 13:33                             ` boyd, rounin
2003-06-26 14:23                               ` matt
2003-06-26 14:35                                 ` boyd, rounin
2003-06-26 15:49                                 ` David Presotto
2003-06-26  8:29           ` Richard Miller, miller
2003-06-25 10:49       ` Apurva Mehta
2003-06-25  0:16 ` Russ Cox
2003-06-25 10:49   ` Apurva Mehta
2003-06-19  9:34 [9fans] The new ridiculous license Keith Nash
2003-06-19 13:51 ` boyd, rounin
2003-06-19 13:54   ` David Presotto
2003-06-19 14:09     ` boyd, rounin
2003-06-19 16:44   ` Erik Terpstra
2003-06-19 17:13     ` boyd, rounin
2003-06-19 17:35     ` Dan Cross
2003-06-19 17:52       ` boyd, rounin
2003-06-19 21:33         ` Jack Johnson
2003-06-20 14:05           ` Jason Gurtz
2003-06-20 14:08             ` Lucio De Re
2003-06-20 14:30               ` Jason Gurtz
2003-06-19 21:34         ` Jack Johnson
2003-06-19 23:19           ` Dan Cross
2003-06-20  1:52             ` George Michaelson
2003-06-20  2:32               ` Geoff Collyer
2003-06-20  2:40                 ` Geoff Collyer
2003-06-20  6:55                   ` Dan Cross
2003-06-20  2:56                 ` andrey mirtchovski
2003-06-20  2:43               ` Stephen Wynne
2003-06-20  6:54               ` Dan Cross
2003-06-20  7:05                 ` Dan Cross
2003-06-23  8:56                 ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2003-06-23 15:22                 ` rog
2003-06-20  8:20           ` John Murdie
2003-06-20 15:31             ` splite
2003-06-20 17:24               ` John Murdie
2003-06-19 17:51     ` David Presotto
2003-06-19 18:15       ` boyd, rounin
2003-06-19 20:14         ` ron minnich
2003-06-23  8:58           ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2003-06-20  5:01       ` Lucio De Re
2003-06-20 14:18         ` [9fans] " Jim Choate
2003-06-20 14:15           ` Lucio De Re
2003-06-20 16:44             ` Jim Choate
2003-06-20 17:06               ` Lucio De Re
2003-06-20 17:54                 ` Jim Choate
2003-06-20 18:39                   ` Stephen Wynne
2003-06-20 20:30                     ` Jim Choate
2003-06-20 19:22                   ` David Presotto
2003-06-20 19:38                     ` nehal
2003-06-20 19:38                     ` ron minnich
2003-06-20 18:57                       ` Sam
2003-06-20 20:50                         ` Jim Choate
2003-06-20 23:46                           ` Steve Arons
2003-06-21  1:16                             ` northern snowfall
2003-06-21  3:16                             ` Jack Johnson
2003-06-20 19:58                       ` Scott Schwartz
2003-06-21 10:42                       ` bwc
2003-06-21 14:00                         ` Jim Choate
2003-06-20 20:12                     ` Jason Gurtz
2003-06-20 20:46                     ` Jim Choate
2003-06-20 22:22                       ` Jon Snader
2003-06-21  0:45                         ` Tom Glinos
2003-06-21  9:16                       ` Markus Friedl
2003-06-21  9:29                         ` Lucio De Re
2003-06-21 13:56                         ` Jim Choate
2003-06-23  7:39                       ` Fco.J.Ballesteros
2003-06-20 20:48                     ` D. Brownlee
2003-06-22  3:10                     ` a
2003-06-22  3:33                       ` Christopher Nielsen
2003-06-22  4:41                         ` northern snowfall
2003-06-22 15:57                         ` Jon Snader
2003-06-22 22:13                           ` Dan Oglesby
2003-06-23  8:57                     ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2003-06-23  9:02                     ` bs
2003-06-23 11:22                       ` matt
2003-06-23 11:36                         ` boyd, rounin
2003-06-23  8:57                   ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2003-05-30 13:19 [9fans] BOF timing ron minnich
2003-05-30 15:13 ` Dan Cross
2003-05-30 15:18   ` David Presotto
2003-05-30 15:21     ` Dan Cross
2003-05-30 15:38   ` ron minnich
2003-05-30 15:52     ` Dan Cross
2003-05-30 15:58       ` ron minnich
2003-05-30 16:05         ` Scott Schwartz
2003-05-30 16:09           ` ron minnich
2003-05-30 16:33             ` [9fans] 9pm broken? Jack Johnson
2003-05-30 18:41             ` [9fans] BOF timing Dan Cross
2003-05-30 18:45               ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-30 18:52                 ` ron minnich
2003-05-30 22:57         ` Geoff Collyer
2003-05-30 23:16           ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-30 15:24 ` Jack Johnson
2003-05-29 11:09 [9fans] Mp3 Resources mp3
2003-05-29 11:17 ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-29 15:18   ` Scott Schwartz
2003-05-29 15:24     ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-29 16:05       ` Damian Gerow
2003-05-30 13:39         ` Anthony Mandic
2003-05-30 13:50           ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-30 15:02             ` rog
2003-05-30 15:09               ` boyd, rounin
2003-06-03 15:59                 ` rog
2003-05-30 15:19               ` Dan Cross
2003-05-30 15:24                 ` paurea
2003-05-30 18:53                 ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-30 18:57                   ` ron minnich
2003-05-30 19:01                     ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-29 16:14       ` Martin Harriss
2003-06-02 14:06     ` Robin KAY
2003-05-18  1:50 [9fans] suggestion: avoiding out of date binaries Fco.J.Ballesteros
2003-05-19  7:06 ` Russ Cox
2003-05-19  7:13   ` Fco.J.Ballesteros
2003-05-19  7:19     ` Russ Cox
2003-05-19  7:25       ` Fco.J.Ballesteros
2003-05-19  7:28         ` Geoff Collyer
2003-05-19  7:32           ` Fco.J.Ballesteros
2003-05-19  7:32         ` Russ Cox
2003-05-19  7:38           ` Fco.J.Ballesteros
2003-05-19  7:47             ` Geoff Collyer
2003-05-19  7:51               ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-19  8:36               ` Fco.J.Ballesteros
2003-05-19  7:55   ` Scott Schwartz
2003-05-19  8:01     ` Russ Cox
2003-05-19  8:38       ` Scott Schwartz
2003-05-19 12:48 ` Joel Salomon
2003-05-19 14:01   ` Fco.J.Ballesteros
2003-05-16 16:05 [9fans] Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? Martin Kielhorn
2003-05-16 16:25 ` Andrew
2003-05-16 22:39 ` Geoff Collyer
2003-05-16 22:57   ` andrey mirtchovski
2003-05-17  0:04     ` northern snowfall
2003-05-16 23:50   ` northern snowfall
2003-05-16 23:59     ` northern snowfall
2003-05-17 19:21 ` Russ Cox
2003-05-19  2:54   ` [9fans] " Jim Choate
2003-05-19  3:00     ` Russ Cox
2003-05-19  3:44       ` [9fans] Latency Issues (was: Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts?) Jim Choate
2003-05-19  3:49         ` Russ Cox
2003-05-19 12:44         ` Joel Salomon
2003-05-19  7:04     ` [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? rob pike, esq.
2003-05-19  7:20       ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-18  5:13 ` Jim Choate
2003-05-18 13:05   ` Dan Cross
2003-05-18 13:43     ` Jim Choate
2003-05-18 14:17       ` Dan Cross
2003-05-18 14:26         ` Jim Choate
2003-05-18 14:36           ` andrey mirtchovski
2003-05-18 14:38           ` Dan Cross
2003-05-18 14:44             ` Jim Choate
2003-05-18 15:15               ` Dan Cross
2003-05-18 16:28                 ` Jim Choate
2003-05-18 18:34                   ` Dan Cross
2003-05-18 19:17                     ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-18 15:31               ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-18 16:29                 ` Jim Choate
2003-05-19  9:46                   ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-19  9:47                 ` Anthony Mandic
2003-05-19 10:22                   ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-19 12:24                     ` Anthony Mandic
2003-05-19 12:50                       ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-19 15:07                         ` Anthony Mandic
2003-05-20  3:31                           ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-20  3:34                             ` rob pike, esq.
2003-05-20  3:34                               ` Skip Tavakkolian
2003-05-20  3:38                               ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-20  5:33                               ` Jim Choate
2003-05-20 11:03                               ` Anthony Mandic
2003-05-20 12:30                                 ` matt
2003-05-20 12:34                                   ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-18 15:02         ` matt
2003-05-18 15:36           ` Dan Cross
2003-05-18 16:46             ` northern snowfall
2003-05-18 16:45               ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-18 18:42                 ` Reading lists (was: [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts?) Dan Cross
2003-05-18 19:11                   ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-19 22:09                 ` [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? George Bronnikov
2003-05-20  4:20                   ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-19 13:06             ` Joel Salomon
2003-05-19 14:00               ` Fco.J.Ballesteros
2003-05-18 16:27           ` Jim Choate
2003-05-18 19:21           ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-18 19:25             ` Andrew
2003-05-18 19:35               ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-18 19:40                 ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-18 19:49                 ` Andrew
2003-05-18 19:55                   ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-18 19:59                     ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-18 21:49                       ` Dan Cross
2003-05-18 21:57                         ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-18 22:33                           ` Scott Schwartz
2003-05-18 22:39                             ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-18 22:44                             ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-18 23:13                               ` Scott Schwartz
2003-05-20  8:49                                 ` Adrian Tritschler
2003-05-21 16:40                                   ` Jason Gurtz
2003-05-21 16:48                                     ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-18 23:50                               ` northern snowfall
2003-05-18 22:55                                 ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-18 22:20                         ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-18 22:32                         ` [9fans] RFC822 & yacc boyd, rounin
2003-05-18 19:38               ` [9fans] Re: Free Plan 9 "shell" accounts? Dan Cross
2003-05-18 19:44                 ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-19 11:17                 ` SMTP stuff. Was: " Aharon Robbins
2003-05-19 12:19                   ` matt
2003-05-19 12:29                   ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-18 19:47               ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-18 15:27         ` boyd, rounin
2003-05-08 15:33 [9fans] design clairvoyance & the 9 way jmk
2003-05-08 15:41 ` David Presotto
2003-05-08 16:21   ` rog
2003-05-08 16:27     ` Russ Cox
2003-05-08 16:52       ` rog
2003-05-08 16:25   ` Russ Cox
2003-05-08 17:45     ` rog
2003-05-08 18:33       ` Russ Cox
2003-04-22 17:32 [9fans] ndb/local ron minnich
2003-04-22 17:37 ` David Presotto
2003-04-22 17:49   ` ron minnich
2003-04-22 17:52     ` David Presotto
2003-04-22 18:30       ` ron minnich
2003-04-22 18:30       ` ron minnich
2003-04-22 18:43         ` Russ Cox
2003-04-22 19:28         ` David Presotto
2003-04-22 19:41           ` andrey mirtchovski
2003-04-22 20:14             ` David Presotto
2003-04-22 20:27               ` Charles Forsyth
2003-04-22 20:35                 ` David Presotto
2003-04-22 20:59               ` ron minnich
2003-04-22 21:25                 ` Scott Schwartz
2003-04-22 21:32                   ` andrey mirtchovski
2003-04-22 21:51                   ` ron minnich
2003-04-22 20:36             ` Russ Cox
2003-04-22 20:16           ` Skip Tavakkolian
2003-04-22 20:23             ` Skip Tavakkolian
2003-04-22 21:06 ` FJ Ballesteros
2003-04-22 21:51   ` ron minnich
2003-04-22 22:40     ` David Presotto
2003-04-22 22:44       ` Scott Schwartz
2003-04-22 23:19         ` David Presotto
2003-04-22 23:02       ` Charles Forsyth
     [not found] <bd525c545ba7fe2d9c6641953a77c609@vitanuova.com>
2003-04-07 18:50 ` [9fans] fast compilers Theo de Raadt
2003-04-08  6:05   ` Dan Cross
2003-04-08  6:07     ` Dan Cross
2003-04-08  6:11     ` Scott Schwartz
2003-04-08  6:12       ` Charles Forsyth
2003-04-08 10:28         ` bwc
2003-04-08 10:46           ` Charles Forsyth
2003-04-08  6:14       ` Dan Cross
     [not found] <rminnich@lanl.gov>
2003-03-03 14:10 ` [9fans] clwalk on open directories Ronald G. Minnich
2003-03-03 17:36   ` Scott Schwartz
2003-03-03 17:39   ` Russ Cox
2003-03-10  4:53 ` [9fans] u9fs, Linux, large files no good Ronald G. Minnich
2003-03-10  5:59   ` Scott Schwartz
2003-03-10 14:42   ` Russ Cox
2003-03-10 14:52     ` Ronald G. Minnich
2003-02-23  7:35 [9fans] spam avoidance Scott Schwartz
2003-02-23 13:30 ` David Presotto
2003-02-23 18:24   ` Mike Haertel
2003-02-23 18:50     ` William Josephson
2003-02-23 18:54       ` Dan Cross
2003-02-23 18:56         ` David Presotto
2003-02-23 19:03           ` Dan Cross
2003-02-23 20:56           ` Jon Snader
2003-02-23 20:58             ` rob pike, esq.
2003-02-24  5:42               ` Dan Cross
2003-02-24  6:47                 ` rob pike, esq.
2003-02-24  6:53                   ` William Josephson
2003-02-24  2:28           ` Scott Schwartz
2003-02-24 10:05           ` Anthony Mandic
2003-03-17 10:10           ` Charles Shannon Hendrix
2003-03-17 16:04             ` Russ Cox
2003-02-23 19:02         ` Scott Schwartz
2003-02-24 10:04   ` Anthony Mandic
2003-02-13 20:00 [9fans] iSCSI matt
2003-02-13 20:08 ` Ronald G. Minnich
2003-02-13 20:13   ` David Presotto
2003-02-13 20:36     ` Christopher Nielsen
2003-02-13 20:28   ` Scott Schwartz
2003-02-14 18:12   ` Jonathan Sergent
2003-02-14 19:23     ` Ronald G. Minnich
2003-02-13 21:52 ` Dan Cross
2003-02-13 22:11   ` David Gordon Hogan
2003-02-13 22:14     ` Dan Cross
2003-02-13 22:15   ` Sam
2003-02-13 23:12     ` Dan Cross
2003-02-14  9:22     ` Richard Miller
2003-02-14 15:10       ` Ronald G. Minnich
2003-01-21  7:02 [9fans] rotzoomer -- another xscreensaver hack andrey mirtchovski
2003-01-21 10:17 ` geoff
2003-01-21 15:03   ` andrey mirtchovski
2003-01-21 21:49     ` geoff
2003-01-21 17:32 ` Russ Cox
2003-01-21 17:43   ` andrey mirtchovski
2003-01-21 17:55     ` Russ Cox
2003-01-21 18:42   ` Scott Schwartz
2003-01-21 18:55     ` Russ Cox
2003-01-21 19:07       ` [9fans] suspending screens (was: rotzoomer) andrey mirtchovski
2003-01-21 19:18         ` jmk
2003-01-21 19:00     ` [9fans] rotzoomer -- another xscreensaver hack rob pike, esq.
2002-11-14  8:53 [9fans] Serving 9p in python - anyone started that? Russ Cox
2002-11-14 17:05 ` Ronald G. Minnich
2002-11-14 18:24   ` Scott Schwartz
2002-10-24 17:54 [9fans] Essay: Is network transparency something bad? rog
2002-10-24 18:40 ` Scott Schwartz
2002-10-24 19:05   ` Ronald G Minnich
2002-10-24 19:25     ` Dan Cross
2002-10-24 19:32       ` Scott Schwartz
2002-10-25 13:10     ` Boyd Roberts
2002-10-24 22:09 ` Steve Kilbane
2002-10-28  6:57 ` [9fans] trying to reach FODEMESI Gergely
2002-01-22 18:28 [9fans] Getting started in Plan9 - help David Gordon Hogan
2002-01-23 10:04 ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2002-01-23 18:01   ` Thomas Bushnell, BSG
2002-01-23 18:19     ` Ronald G Minnich
2002-01-23 18:21       ` Scott Schwartz
2002-01-24  9:38       ` Thomas Bushnell, BSG
2002-01-23 18:46     ` Boyd Roberts
2002-01-24  9:38       ` Thomas Bushnell, BSG
2002-01-24 13:01         ` David Arnold
2002-01-24 17:35           ` Thomas Bushnell, BSG
2002-01-24 21:40             ` Dan Cross
2002-01-25 10:00               ` Thomas Bushnell, BSG
2002-01-25 22:56                 ` Dan Cross
2002-01-28 18:26                   ` Boyd Roberts
2002-01-29  9:31                     ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2002-01-29 10:44                       ` [OT] " paurea
2002-01-29 17:20                         ` Thomas Bushnell, BSG
2002-01-30  0:20                           ` [9fans] upas/fs -f/imap faltering start Matt H
2002-01-30  9:29                         ` [OT] Re: [9fans] Getting started in Plan9 - help Douglas A. Gwyn
2002-01-30 11:08                           ` paurea
2002-01-30 16:25                             ` Thomas Bushnell, BSG
2002-01-31  9:43                             ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2002-01-30 16:35                           ` Thomas Bushnell, BSG
2002-01-30 20:43                           ` Andrew Simmons
2002-01-30 22:44                             ` George Michaelson
2002-01-31  3:50                               ` [Ever more OT] " Andrew Simmons
2002-01-31  5:28                             ` [OT] " Douglas A. Gwyn
2002-01-31  5:37                               ` Lucio De Re
2002-01-31  9:43                                 ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2002-01-31 10:14                                   ` Lucio De Re
2002-02-01  9:57                                     ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2002-01-31 11:22                               ` Boyd Roberts
2002-01-31 11:53                                 ` [OT] Re: [9fans] Getting started in Plan9 - via physics Matt H
2002-01-31  6:10                             ` [OT] Re: [9fans] Getting started in Plan9 - help Douglas A. Gwyn
2002-01-31  9:35                               ` Thomas Bushnell, BSG
2002-02-01  9:57                                 ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2002-02-01 16:41                                   ` Thomas Bushnell, BSG
2002-02-03 19:55                                   ` [9fans] Cross products - longish & boring, but now officially on topic! Andrew Simmons
2002-01-31  9:35                           ` [OT] Re: [9fans] Getting started in Plan9 - help Thomas Bushnell, BSG
2002-01-24 16:05         ` Boyd Roberts
2002-01-24 17:34           ` Thomas Bushnell, BSG
2002-01-25 10:00     ` Douglas A. Gwyn
2002-01-23 10:48 ` Boyd Roberts
2002-01-23 18:01 ` Thomas Bushnell, BSG
2001-12-02  9:39 [9fans] python Russ Cox
     [not found] ` <rsc@plan9.bell-labs.com>
2000-08-19 23:28   ` [9fans] Monitors and VGADB Russ Cox
2000-08-19 23:46     ` Matt
2000-08-19 23:48     ` Matt
2000-08-20  0:14     ` Scott Schwartz
2000-09-29  5:01   ` [9fans] Adding history to Rio's windows Russ Cox
2000-09-29  5:26     ` Scott Schwartz
2000-09-29 20:52     ` Boyd Roberts
2000-12-22  6:37   ` [9fans] scripting sam Russ Cox
2000-12-23  2:51     ` Scott Schwartz
2000-12-28  9:33   ` [9fans] stopping sleep and aux/listen Russ Cox
2000-12-28 22:41     ` Scott Schwartz
2001-01-03  0:51   ` [9fans] ML, CVS, Python Russ Cox
2001-01-03  1:29     ` sergent
2001-01-04  9:51       ` Randolph Fritz
2001-01-04 17:01         ` Scott Schwartz
2001-01-03 19:36     ` Dan Cross
2001-01-08  4:12   ` [9fans] python and lua Russ Cox
2001-01-08  4:43     ` [9fans] re: paging Scott Schwartz
2001-01-09 21:24       ` paurea
2001-09-05 21:11   ` [9fans] weird print(2) problems Russ Cox
2001-09-05 21:24     ` Scott Schwartz
2001-11-11 20:35   ` [9fans] pptp.c install failed Russ Cox
2001-11-11 21:17     ` Scott Schwartz
2001-11-11 23:25       ` Dan Cross
2001-11-12 11:42       ` Boyd Roberts
2001-11-12 18:13     ` William S .
2001-11-21  1:07   ` [9fans] on TCP vs IL Russ Cox
2001-11-21  1:21     ` George Michaelson
2001-11-21 20:01     ` Dan Cross
2001-11-22  2:21       ` Scott Schwartz
2001-11-22 22:17       ` Steve Kilbane
2001-11-23 10:58         ` Boyd Roberts
2001-11-24  5:32   ` [9fans] Nagle algorithm Russ Cox
2001-11-24 20:04     ` Scott Schwartz
2001-12-02 16:05   ` [9fans] python Jonathan Sergent
2002-01-16  3:44   ` [9fans] semaphores Russ Cox
2002-01-16  3:54     ` Scott Schwartz
2002-01-16 11:14       ` Boyd Roberts
2002-01-16 15:47       ` Ronald G Minnich
2002-01-25 10:30     ` Ralph Corderoy
2002-02-08  1:48   ` [9fans] how small can you get Russ Cox
2002-02-08  1:52     ` Scott Schwartz
2002-02-08 15:17     ` Ronald G Minnich
2002-03-12  4:24   ` [9fans] mkfile for Solaris-sparc using gcc? Russ Cox
2002-03-12  4:26     ` Scott Schwartz
2002-03-18 13:25       ` Boyd Roberts
2002-03-18 15:10         ` AMSRL-CI-CN
2002-03-12  4:59     ` Ish Rattan
2002-08-13  5:42   ` [9fans] Ephase question Russ Cox
2002-08-13  5:53     ` Scott Schwartz
2002-08-13  6:05     ` Ronald G Minnich
2002-08-13  6:22       ` Alexander Viro
2002-08-13  6:13     ` Alexander Viro
2002-10-08 15:58   ` [9fans] lp doesn't work after upgrade from downloaded cd image Russ Cox
2002-10-08 16:05     ` [9fans] bleeding edge sources John Saylor
2002-10-08 16:08     ` [9fans] lp doesn't work after upgrade from downloaded cd image Scott Schwartz
2002-10-22  5:21   ` [9fans] tex erratum Russ Cox
2002-10-22  5:25     ` Scott Schwartz
2002-11-14 17:33   ` [9fans] Serving 9p in python - anyone started that? Russ Cox
2002-11-14 18:28     ` Scott Schwartz
2002-11-14 18:46       ` matt
2002-11-14 19:19         ` Dan Cross
2002-11-14 19:00       ` William Josephson
2001-12-02 12:08 ` [9fans] python Boyd Roberts
2001-12-03 22:24 ` Laura Creighton
     [not found] <cross@math.psu.edu>
2001-09-04 19:02 ` [9fans] weird print(2) problems Dan Cross
2001-09-04 19:08   ` Scott Schwartz
2001-09-05 14:22     ` Dan Cross
2001-09-05 19:01       ` Boyd Roberts
2002-08-25 19:28 ` [9fans] Quality of Plan 9's Cyrillic fonts? Dan Cross
2002-08-25 20:02   ` Scott Schwartz
2002-08-25 20:29   ` George Bronnikov
2002-08-26  5:23   ` Andrey S. Kukhar
2002-08-30 17:18     ` Dan Cross
2002-11-05 19:02 ` [9fans] Tunneling 9p over rfc822 encoded email/SMTP? Dan Cross
2002-11-06  0:02   ` Steve Kilbane
2002-11-06 10:29     ` Boyd Roberts
2001-08-22 14:22 [9fans] standalone cpu/auth server?? Russ Cox
2001-08-22 15:52 ` Ish Rattan
2001-08-22 17:19   ` Dan Cross
2001-08-22 18:58     ` Scott Schwartz
     [not found] <randolph@panix.com>
2001-01-02 17:39 ` [9fans] A Plan 9 Python Interest Group? Randolph Fritz
2001-01-02 21:10   ` Jonathan Sergent
2001-01-02 22:40     ` matt heath
2001-01-03  9:43     ` Randolph Fritz
2001-01-04  4:09       ` arisawa
2001-01-05  3:39   ` [9fans] python and lua Quinn Dunkan
2001-01-05  2:50     ` arisawa
2001-01-06 15:41   ` [9fans] A question of temperature Jim Choate
2001-01-06 16:07     ` Boyd Roberts
2001-01-06 16:53       ` [9fans] " Jim Choate
2001-01-06 16:45         ` Boyd Roberts
2001-01-09  9:38     ` [9fans] " Douglas A. Gwyn
     [not found]   ` <Pine.LNX.3.96.1010106092045.25692V-100000@einstein.ssz.com >
2001-01-06 19:07     ` Fariborz 'Skip' Tavakkolian
2001-01-06 19:29       ` [9fans] " Jim Choate
2001-01-08 19:42         ` Dan Cross
2001-01-08 23:16           ` Jim Choate
2001-01-09  0:15             ` Dan Cross
2001-01-09  0:52               ` Jim Choate
2001-01-09  9:21             ` matt heath
2001-01-09  9:48               ` Boyd Roberts
2001-01-09 18:42                 ` Dan Cross
2001-01-09 21:42                 ` Boyd Roberts
2001-01-09  9:39           ` Andy Newman
2000-12-15 10:13 [9fans] not just 3-button mice Douglas A. Gwyn
2000-12-15 13:06 ` Christopher Nielsen
     [not found] ` <DAGwyn@null.net>
2000-12-15 17:03   ` Tom Duff
2000-12-16 13:22     ` Boyd Roberts

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