[9fans] Flash Video

[9fans] Flash Video

[Akshat Kumar]

What are the details of, and/or what might be involved in,
composing some Flash Video player for Plan 9?
Likewise, how feasible is a port of such a thing
(i.e., how closed or open is the technology)?

if I push hard enough,
I just might give birth to a monster
ak

Re: [9fans] Flash Video

[Skip Tavakkolian]

> if I push hard enough,
> I just might give birth to a monster

it might require a c-section.
might want to start with VLC or ffmpeg.

Re: [9fans] Flash Video

[Akshat Kumar]

2009/2/2 Skip Tavakkolian <9nut@9netics.com>:
> it might require a c-section.
> might want to start with VLC or ffmpeg.
>

My aim was just to get 9fans talking about it.
Hence, the pushing.

But yes, what information can you provide
about either of those, with regards to porting
or creating natively?


ak

Re: [9fans] Flash Video

[Devon H. O'Dell]

2009/2/2 Akshat Kumar <akumar@mail.nanosouffle.net>:
> 2009/2/2 Skip Tavakkolian <9nut@9netics.com>:
>> it might require a c-section.
>> might want to start with VLC or ffmpeg.
>>
>
> My aim was just to get 9fans talking about it.
> Hence, the pushing.
>
> But yes, what information can you provide
> about either of those, with regards to porting
> or creating natively?

The Flash file format is an open standard
(http://www.adobe.com/devnet/swf/). To be useful for encoded video,
you'd need a VP6 codec (which seems lolno) and x264. It would probably
be possible to do at least the x264 stuff via ffmpeg, which is
probably not too difficult to port -- it's pretty simple code and the
codecs are easily portable. To be useful for anything else, you'd also
need a bytecode interpreter that understood the compiled actionscript
-- it's just a bytecode-compiled ECMAScript, and I believe its details
are also found in that PDF. The rest is being able to display JPG/PNG
raster images and antialiased TTF and vectors. (Flash allows you to
embed fonts into the generated SWF output as well).

--dho

> ak
>
>

Re: [9fans] Flash Video

[Eris Discordia]

I don't know of any open source implementations of Flash Player. The
software on each platform and for each browser seems to be (c) Adobe and
closed source. Does an open source implementation, however incomplete,
exist?

Videos embedded in SWF files are encoded in Sorenson's MPEG-4 profile.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorenson_codec>

--On Monday, February 02, 2009 8:14 AM -0500 "Devon H. O'Dell"
<devon.odell@gmail.com> wrote:

> 2009/2/2 Akshat Kumar <akumar@mail.nanosouffle.net>:
>> 2009/2/2 Skip Tavakkolian <9nut@9netics.com>:
>>> it might require a c-section.
>>> might want to start with VLC or ffmpeg.
>>>
>>
>> My aim was just to get 9fans talking about it.
>> Hence, the pushing.
>>
>> But yes, what information can you provide
>> about either of those, with regards to porting
>> or creating natively?
>
> The Flash file format is an open standard
> (http://www.adobe.com/devnet/swf/). To be useful for encoded video,
> you'd need a VP6 codec (which seems lolno) and x264. It would probably
> be possible to do at least the x264 stuff via ffmpeg, which is
> probably not too difficult to port -- it's pretty simple code and the
> codecs are easily portable. To be useful for anything else, you'd also
> need a bytecode interpreter that understood the compiled actionscript
> -- it's just a bytecode-compiled ECMAScript, and I believe its details
> are also found in that PDF. The rest is being able to display JPG/PNG
> raster images and antialiased TTF and vectors. (Flash allows you to
> embed fonts into the generated SWF output as well).
>
> --dho
>
>> ak
>>
>>
>

Re: [9fans] Flash Video

[Pietro Gagliardi]

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Hash: SHA1

On Feb 3, 2009, at 5:11 AM, Eris Discordia wrote:

> I don't know of any open source implementations of Flash Player. The
> software on each platform and for each browser seems to be (c) Adobe
> and closed source. Does an open source implementation, however
> incomplete, exist?

The two major ones are swfdec and Gnash, the latter part of the GNU
project. They're both at version 0.8.4, but swfdec 0.9.2 is available
as development version.
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Re: [9fans] Flash Video

[Eris Discordia]

Very interesting. Thank you.

By the way, Gnash seems to be quite useful.

--On Tuesday, February 03, 2009 12:22 PM +0100 Christian Walther
<cptsalek@gmail.com> wrote:

> 2009/2/3 Eris Discordia <eris.discordia@gmail.com>:
>> I don't know of any open source implementations of Flash Player. The
>> software on each platform and for each browser seems to be (c) Adobe and
>> closed source. Does an open source implementation, however incomplete,
>> exist?
>
> Well, there is"gnash", which aims to be an open source flash movie
> player. It relies on ffmpeg or gstreamer to decode any video.
> More info can be found on http://www.gnashdev.org/
>



--On Tuesday, February 03, 2009 6:30 AM -0500 Pietro Gagliardi
<pietro10@mac.com> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Feb 3, 2009, at 5:11 AM, Eris Discordia wrote:
>
>> I don't know of any open source implementations of Flash Player. The
>> software on each platform and for each browser seems to be (c) Adobe
>> and closed source. Does an open source implementation, however
>> incomplete, exist?
>
> The two major ones are swfdec and Gnash, the latter part of the GNU
> project. They're both at version 0.8.4, but swfdec 0.9.2 is available as
> development version.
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin)
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAkmIKrkACgkQuv7AVNQDs+wJ+wCghd0KZynItmM56GgowKv7MxZq
> XI0An03lZmRkM5PrQ1PjCY+EBlOwyRM5
> =yeuI
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>

Re: [9fans] Flash Video

[hiro]

On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 10:44 PM, Eris Discordia
<eris.discordia@gmail.com> wrote:
> Very interesting. Thank you.
>
> By the way, Gnash seems to be quite useful.

Well, that depends on what you call useful...

Re: [9fans] Flash Video

[Skip Tavakkolian]

the original question was about flash video.

many here seem to have interesting ideas, but obviously
not motivated enough to want to plan/research/read/understand.

two clues: mpeg4 and rtp

>> By the way, Gnash seems to be quite useful.

Re: [9fans] Flash Video

[Akshat Kumar]

2009/2/3 Skip Tavakkolian <9nut@9netics.com>:
> the original question was about flash video.
>
> many here seem to have interesting ideas, but obviously
> not motivated enough to want to plan/research/read/understand.
>
> two clues: mpeg4 and rtp

Thanks, I see there are some RFCs related to RTP,
and some particularly useful tools that could help in understanding
via example, such as [1].
If you have any references to documents or applications that could
facilitate understanding or development in Plan 9, that would
be greatly appreciated.

My idea/understanding of Web 2.0 on Plan 9 has been that we
would break apart the various mediums that diverge from the
plaintext and image, such as audio and video (which is perhaps
everything), and make simple standalone tools for accessing this
data. Then, primarily one attains just text from a direct HTTP
conversation with a webserver, and the tools providing us with this
conversation give us references to the other forms of data present
on the web site, for each of which we have a corresponding tool
for access. I'm sure this is a rather obvious style as envisioned
by just about anyone who's been using Plan 9, so a flash streaming
utility seems to be the next step.


Thanks for your input,
ak


[1] http://xenion.reactive-search.com/?page_id=7

Re: [9fans] Flash Video

[hiro]

On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 4:48 AM, Akshat Kumar
<akumar@mail.nanosouffle.net> wrote:
> 2009/2/3 Skip Tavakkolian <9nut@9netics.com>:
>> the original question was about flash video.
>>
>> many here seem to have interesting ideas, but obviously
>> not motivated enough to want to plan/research/read/understand.
>>
>> two clues: mpeg4 and rtp
>
> Thanks, I see there are some RFCs related to RTP,
> and some particularly useful tools that could help in understanding
> via example, such as [1].
> If you have any references to documents or applications that could
> facilitate understanding or development in Plan 9, that would
> be greatly appreciated.
>
> My idea/understanding of Web 2.0 on Plan 9 has been that we
> would break apart the various mediums that diverge from the
> plaintext and image, such as audio and video (which is perhaps
> everything), and make simple standalone tools for accessing this
> data. Then, primarily one attains just text from a direct HTTP
> conversation with a webserver, and the tools providing us with this
> conversation give us references to the other forms of data present
> on the web site, for each of which we have a corresponding tool
> for access. I'm sure this is a rather obvious style as envisioned
> by just about anyone who's been using Plan 9, so a flash streaming
> utility seems to be the next step.
>
>
> Thanks for your input,
> ak
>
>
> [1] http://xenion.reactive-search.com/?page_id=7
>
>

I guess this the right approach for doomed web 2.0

I'm glad to hear you didn't plan some big inferno-like flash tool :)

Re: [9fans] Flash Video

[Devon H. O'Dell]

2009/2/3 Skip Tavakkolian <9nut@9netics.com>:
> the original question was about flash video.
>
> many here seem to have interesting ideas, but obviously
> not motivated enough to want to plan/research/read/understand.
>
> two clues: mpeg4 and rtp

I think you mean RTMP. There are a couple of open RTMP transporters,
the only functional ones I've seen are in ruby and Java.

--dho

>>> By the way, Gnash seems to be quite useful.
>
>
>

Re: [9fans] Flash Video

[Christian Walther]

2009/2/3 Eris Discordia <eris.discordia@gmail.com>:
> I don't know of any open source implementations of Flash Player. The
> software on each platform and for each browser seems to be (c) Adobe and
> closed source. Does an open source implementation, however incomplete,
> exist?

Well, there is"gnash", which aims to be an open source flash movie
player. It relies on ffmpeg or gstreamer to decode any video.
More info can be found on http://www.gnashdev.org/