From: Eris Discordia <eris.discordia@gmail.com>
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Subject: Re: [9fans] Using the Acme Editor
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:29:54 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <9C413EC4F5D15DE1C48C1561@computer> (raw)
> Oh, I'm waiting for a phone call before bed. What the hell.
Sleep tight. Every night.
> My job includes some programming, some document writing, lots of reading.
Programming _for_ Plan 9? Document writing _for_ Plan 9? Reading _about_
Plan 9?
I'm, of course, benignly assuming you create "usable" programs and
documents. And read "useful" things. Couldn't Windows do the job? Or
FreeBSD? Or what-have-you Linux? And better, easier?
> I've never been employed to count columns or fold lines.
Neither have I. You _still_ haven't figured out the difference between a
work/task and a job/profession?
> interface encourages good mental habits that help me produce
> quality stuff.
Could your "quality" by any chance be _quantified_?
> I find the applications and interfaces in Plan 9 to be far more
> consistent and convenient than in other systems. That's true both
> for programming interfaces and user interfaces. This means I can
> let the system do its job and get out of my way without having to
> think about it as much as I do elsewhere.
Rationale? Examples? Comparison? Why would anyone else care how _you_ find
it? Tell me how _I_ can do it. Tell _them_ how they can do it.
> do for me, that's fine (academically, I might speculate on why).
Academically, speculate on _what_ exactly Plan 9 does for you. Also, share
your speculations.
> using the system productively are either delusional or just don't
> exist is highly insulting.
I don't remember having called anyone "delusional" or "non-existent."
The key here is that every new person who comes to 9fans and asks a few
questions about very mundane things available elsewhere gets pathologically
flamed about why "those darned things" shouldn't exist and how Plan 9 is so
great by "not having them" and that they should go "do it themselves" if
it's out of the 9people's narrow scopes/niches/specialization. _That's_
insulting, especially from a group who claim to offer--yes, when it's up
for grabs and web sites say cool things about it it's an offer--a
"complete" OS.
Why not put one these flames at a place visible from
http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/?
Just look at the sort of "solutions" this thread's originator has received.
They've been told to use awk for matching HTML tags. Or to type "Edit ="
and then do the acrobatics whenever they need to know their position in
code--oh, and no "columns."
--On Tuesday, August 19, 2008 10:29 PM -0400 a@9srv.net wrote:
> // Bite if you please. Hook, line, and sinker ;-)
>
> Oh, I'm waiting for a phone call before bed. What the hell.
>
> My job has nothing to do with your 1-3. I agree with Steve exactly: I
> use Plan 9 because it allows me to get my job done easier. My job
> includes some programming, some document writing, lots of
> reading. I've never been employed to count columns or fold lines. I
> use Acme (even when not on Plan 9) because, at least for me, the
> interface encourages good mental habits that help me produce
> quality stuff.
>
> I find the applications and interfaces in Plan 9 to be far more
> consistent and convenient than in other systems. That's true both
> for programming interfaces and user interfaces. This means I can
> let the system do its job and get out of my way without having to
> think about it as much as I do elsewhere.
>
> You're also engaging in all sorts of poor logic in the "No True
> Scotsman" family in order to try and exclude folks like Coraid
> who're really excellent counter-examples to your claims: they
> use Plan 9 not for (the benefit of) Plan 9, but because it allows them
> to build products (for other people who likely have no idea Plan 9
> is involved) easier.
>
> If Acme (or Plan 9 generally) don't fit your style well, that's fine. If
> the interfaces don't have the same beneficial effects for you as they
> do for me, that's fine (academically, I might speculate on why).
> Feel free not to use it. But to imply that people who are actually
> using the system productively are either delusional or just don't
> exist is highly insulting.
>
> Anthony
>
>
next reply other threads:[~2008-08-20 8:29 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 117+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2008-08-20 8:29 Eris Discordia [this message]
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2008-08-24 17:13 Eris Discordia
2008-08-25 3:57 ` Michaelian Ennis
2008-08-24 16:52 Eris Discordia
2008-08-24 8:20 erik quanstrom
2008-08-21 17:36 Eris Discordia
2008-08-21 20:39 ` ron minnich
2008-08-21 22:11 ` Eris Discordia
2008-08-22 2:58 ` Federico G. Benavento
2008-08-22 6:13 ` Andrew Simmons
2008-08-22 9:41 ` hiro
2008-08-21 17:20 Eris Discordia
2008-08-21 16:39 Eris Discordia
2008-08-21 17:11 ` ron minnich
2008-08-21 18:29 ` hiro
2008-08-20 23:49 Eris Discordia
2008-08-20 21:46 Eris Discordia
2008-08-20 22:41 ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-08-20 23:15 ` Geoffrey Avila
2008-08-21 7:42 ` Uriel
2008-08-21 10:58 ` erik quanstrom
2008-08-21 13:25 ` john
2008-08-21 13:31 ` David Leimbach
2008-08-21 16:59 ` Eris Discordia
2008-08-21 17:14 ` ron minnich
2008-08-21 10:36 ` erik quanstrom
2008-08-20 13:01 Eris Discordia
2008-08-20 13:22 ` Sander van Dijk
2008-08-20 12:56 Eris Discordia
2008-08-20 18:08 ` sqweek
2008-08-20 18:58 ` erik quanstrom
2008-08-20 19:47 ` sqweek
2008-08-20 12:36 Eris Discordia
2008-08-20 9:44 Eris Discordia
2008-08-20 9:34 Eris Discordia
2008-08-20 11:56 ` Robert William Fuller
2008-08-20 12:25 ` Eris Discordia
2008-08-20 9:03 Eris Discordia
2008-08-20 8:33 Eris Discordia
2008-08-20 8:04 Eris Discordia
2008-08-20 1:39 Eris Discordia
2008-08-20 2:08 ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-08-20 2:13 ` Iruata Souza
2008-08-20 8:08 ` Eris Discordia
2008-08-20 5:02 ` sqweek
2008-08-20 9:15 ` Eris Discordia
2008-08-20 9:44 ` Sander van Dijk
2008-08-20 9:53 ` sqweek
2008-08-20 10:12 ` matt
2008-08-20 12:27 ` Bruce Ellis
2008-08-20 16:23 ` Iruata Souza
2008-08-20 8:10 ` Steve Simon
2008-08-20 0:30 Eris Discordia
2008-08-20 3:34 ` geoff
2008-08-20 3:43 ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-08-20 3:48 ` Bruce Ellis
2008-08-20 8:42 ` Eris Discordia
2008-08-20 0:10 Eris Discordia
2008-08-20 2:29 ` a
2008-08-20 8:01 ` Steve Simon
2008-08-19 23:51 Eris Discordia
2008-08-20 0:30 ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-08-20 1:31 ` Iruata Souza
2008-08-20 1:43 ` Eris Discordia
2008-08-20 2:00 ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-08-20 7:03 ` Eris Discordia
2008-08-20 7:36 ` bb
2008-08-21 0:03 ` Dan Cross
2008-08-24 7:27 ` John Waters
2008-08-24 18:14 ` Eris Discordia
2008-08-25 5:43 ` John Waters
2008-08-19 22:00 Eris Discordia
2008-08-19 22:12 ` andrey mirtchovski
2008-08-19 23:14 ` Eris Discordia
2008-08-20 3:12 ` Skip Tavakkolian
2008-08-20 3:17 ` andrey mirtchovski
2008-08-20 8:31 ` Eris Discordia
2008-08-19 22:14 ` Francisco J Ballesteros
2008-08-19 22:26 ` Steve Simon
2008-08-19 23:27 ` Eris Discordia
2008-08-19 23:36 ` Jonathan Cast
2008-08-20 0:42 ` Eris Discordia
2008-08-20 2:08 ` a
2008-08-20 8:06 ` Eris Discordia
2008-08-20 3:26 ` Skip Tavakkolian
2008-08-20 3:31 ` Bruce Ellis
2008-08-20 8:41 ` Eris Discordia
2008-08-19 22:25 ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-08-19 22:31 ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-08-19 22:46 ` Federico G. Benavento
2008-08-20 0:31 ` Eris Discordia
2008-08-19 23:03 ` Benjamin Huntsman
2008-08-20 0:34 ` Eris Discordia
2008-08-20 0:58 ` Benjamin Huntsman
2008-08-19 22:34 ` erik quanstrom
2008-08-20 3:11 ` Skip Tavakkolian
2008-08-19 15:52 Wendell xe
2008-08-19 16:01 ` ron minnich
2008-08-19 16:11 ` erik quanstrom
2008-08-19 21:23 ` Lyndon Nerenberg
2008-08-19 16:31 ` Robert Raschke
2008-08-19 21:00 ` Steve Simon
2008-08-19 17:50 ` Ramon de Vera
2008-08-19 17:58 ` Russ Cox
2008-10-22 12:37 ` Rudolf Sykora
2008-10-23 18:26 ` Rudolf Sykora
2008-10-23 20:17 ` yy
2008-10-24 17:51 ` Russ Cox
2008-10-24 18:17 ` Rudolf Sykora
2009-04-05 16:19 ` Rudolf Sykora
2008-08-19 20:22 ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-08-19 21:24 ` Iruata Souza
2008-08-20 0:28 ` David Leimbach
2008-08-20 3:54 ` Pietro Gagliardi
2008-08-20 3:56 ` Bruce Ellis
2008-08-20 8:48 ` Eris Discordia
2008-08-20 9:21 ` matt
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