From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:29:54 +0100 From: Eris Discordia To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> Message-ID: <9C413EC4F5D15DE1C48C1561@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Subject: Re: [9fans] Using the Acme Editor Topicbox-Message-UUID: 0230d2a0-ead4-11e9-9d60-3106f5b1d025 > Oh, I'm waiting for a phone call before bed. What the hell. Sleep tight. Every night. > My job includes some programming, some document writing, lots of reading. Programming _for_ Plan 9? Document writing _for_ Plan 9? Reading _about_ Plan 9? I'm, of course, benignly assuming you create "usable" programs and documents. And read "useful" things. Couldn't Windows do the job? Or FreeBSD? Or what-have-you Linux? And better, easier? > I've never been employed to count columns or fold lines. Neither have I. You _still_ haven't figured out the difference between a work/task and a job/profession? > interface encourages good mental habits that help me produce > quality stuff. Could your "quality" by any chance be _quantified_? > I find the applications and interfaces in Plan 9 to be far more > consistent and convenient than in other systems. That's true both > for programming interfaces and user interfaces. This means I can > let the system do its job and get out of my way without having to > think about it as much as I do elsewhere. Rationale? Examples? Comparison? Why would anyone else care how _you_ find it? Tell me how _I_ can do it. Tell _them_ how they can do it. > do for me, that's fine (academically, I might speculate on why). Academically, speculate on _what_ exactly Plan 9 does for you. Also, share your speculations. > using the system productively are either delusional or just don't > exist is highly insulting. I don't remember having called anyone "delusional" or "non-existent." The key here is that every new person who comes to 9fans and asks a few questions about very mundane things available elsewhere gets pathologically flamed about why "those darned things" shouldn't exist and how Plan 9 is so great by "not having them" and that they should go "do it themselves" if it's out of the 9people's narrow scopes/niches/specialization. _That's_ insulting, especially from a group who claim to offer--yes, when it's up for grabs and web sites say cool things about it it's an offer--a "complete" OS. Why not put one these flames at a place visible from http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/? Just look at the sort of "solutions" this thread's originator has received. They've been told to use awk for matching HTML tags. Or to type "Edit =" and then do the acrobatics whenever they need to know their position in code--oh, and no "columns." --On Tuesday, August 19, 2008 10:29 PM -0400 a@9srv.net wrote: > // Bite if you please. Hook, line, and sinker ;-) > > Oh, I'm waiting for a phone call before bed. What the hell. > > My job has nothing to do with your 1-3. I agree with Steve exactly: I > use Plan 9 because it allows me to get my job done easier. My job > includes some programming, some document writing, lots of > reading. I've never been employed to count columns or fold lines. I > use Acme (even when not on Plan 9) because, at least for me, the > interface encourages good mental habits that help me produce > quality stuff. > > I find the applications and interfaces in Plan 9 to be far more > consistent and convenient than in other systems. That's true both > for programming interfaces and user interfaces. This means I can > let the system do its job and get out of my way without having to > think about it as much as I do elsewhere. > > You're also engaging in all sorts of poor logic in the "No True > Scotsman" family in order to try and exclude folks like Coraid > who're really excellent counter-examples to your claims: they > use Plan 9 not for (the benefit of) Plan 9, but because it allows them > to build products (for other people who likely have no idea Plan 9 > is involved) easier. > > If Acme (or Plan 9 generally) don't fit your style well, that's fine. If > the interfaces don't have the same beneficial effects for you as they > do for me, that's fine (academically, I might speculate on why). > Feel free not to use it. But to imply that people who are actually > using the system productively are either delusional or just don't > exist is highly insulting. > > Anthony > >