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identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="giacomo@tesio.it"; helo=15.mo584.mail-out.ovh.net; client-ip=91.121.62.11 Received: from 15.mo584.mail-out.ovh.net (15.mo584.mail-out.ovh.net [91.121.62.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by tb-mx0.topicbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS for <9fans@9fans.net>; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 17:09:14 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from giacomo@tesio.it) Received: from player788.ha.ovh.net (unknown [10.110.171.215]) by mo584.mail-out.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CEBB23598 for <9fans@9fans.net>; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 22:09:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from tesio.it (93-41-149-224.ip82.fastwebnet.it [93.41.149.224]) (Authenticated sender: giacomo@tesio.it) by player788.ha.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 911C726C9C16F; Thu, 27 Jan 2022 22:09:11 +0000 (UTC) X-OVh-ClientIp:93.41.149.224 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 22:09:12 +0000 From: Giacomo Tesio To: 9fans <9fans@9fans.net>, hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation In-Reply-To: References: <20220127053516.4a9022f6@riseup.net> Message-ID: <9EDCD886-21AE-465B-8180-1358179E6457@tesio.it> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; 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History is full of counter examples that contraddict your thesis. At least since neolithic, human organization has been determinated by techn= ology. The most recent (and most directly related to informatics) were Gutemberg's= movable-type printing press, Meucci's telephone, the general purpose CPU and obviously=20 the Internet. But ancient sailing tech, the steam engine, the car, the H bomb, are few am= ong=20 thousands of examples of technological innovation that enabled new (and always more complex) kind of human organizations. Actually one could argue that technology is the most powerful political for= ce=20 in human society. On January 27, 2022 9:02:29 PM UTC, hiro <23hiro@gmail.com> wrote: > the majority of "hackers" have already failed to be political, when > they sold their souls to the big corps like google and amazon. You are confusing hackers with engineers. Most hackers ARE politically aware. They pursuit knowledge instead of power, money or prestige, but they are aw= are of the consequences of their hack. Yet they might align with power anyway. Some are blind enough or careless enough or individualistic enough to only = care about=20 their own fun hacks. Take Pike or Thompson: they were pioneers, invented C, Plan9 and all the st= uff we love but now they work in Google (afaik). Were they hacker? I can't say if they were or they were just great engineers, but for sure th= ey now align=20 with Google interests and approve its business model based on surveillance = capitalism. On the other hand, RMS, Terry A. Davis or Phineas Fisher, Ola Bini are all = very=20 politically aware hackers, each in his own way. Sure, since ever, Power system try to get control of hackers. Sometime they manage to jail us. Sometime we escape. [1] Giacomo [1] http://www.tesio.it/2020/09/03/not_all_hackers_are_americans.html ------------------------------------------ 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T627a29a7babaf29e-M2da00= 05ff460750189129b1e Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription