* [9fans] Fonts
@ 2009-07-08 19:00 Devon H. O'Dell
2009-07-08 19:11 ` Joseph Stewart
` (4 more replies)
0 siblings, 5 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Devon H. O'Dell @ 2009-07-08 19:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
I have very little idea about these fuckers. I know there are
baselines and ideas about m's and n's and kerning and whatnot.
But how do you make them? I played with some TTF font generators about
10 years ago that I'm sure I illegally obtained somehow, but I realize
that I have zero idea of how fonts are designed and packaged. Does
anybody know anything about how fonts are created and packaged (info
on subfonts would be great, info on TTF would be interesting).
--dho
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Fonts
2009-07-08 19:00 [9fans] Fonts Devon H. O'Dell
@ 2009-07-08 19:11 ` Joseph Stewart
2009-07-08 19:11 ` Joseph Stewart
2009-07-08 19:49 ` J. R. Mauro
` (3 subsequent siblings)
4 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Joseph Stewart @ 2009-07-08 19:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
I can't help at all, but the first sentence made me shoot soda out my
nose laughing.
-joe
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 3:00 PM, Devon H. O'Dell<devon.odell@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have very little idea about these fuckers. I know there are
> baselines and ideas about m's and n's and kerning and whatnot.
>
> But how do you make them? I played with some TTF font generators about
> 10 years ago that I'm sure I illegally obtained somehow, but I realize
> that I have zero idea of how fonts are designed and packaged. Does
> anybody know anything about how fonts are created and packaged (info
> on subfonts would be great, info on TTF would be interesting).
>
> --dho
>
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Fonts
2009-07-08 19:11 ` Joseph Stewart
@ 2009-07-08 19:11 ` Joseph Stewart
0 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Joseph Stewart @ 2009-07-08 19:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
I think I'll start all of my work correspondence with this sentence. ;-).
-joe
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 3:11 PM, Joseph Stewart<joseph.stewart@gmail.com> wrote:
> I can't help at all, but the first sentence made me shoot soda out my
> nose laughing.
>
> -joe
>
> On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 3:00 PM, Devon H. O'Dell<devon.odell@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I have very little idea about these fuckers. I know there are
>> baselines and ideas about m's and n's and kerning and whatnot.
>>
>> But how do you make them? I played with some TTF font generators about
>> 10 years ago that I'm sure I illegally obtained somehow, but I realize
>> that I have zero idea of how fonts are designed and packaged. Does
>> anybody know anything about how fonts are created and packaged (info
>> on subfonts would be great, info on TTF would be interesting).
>>
>> --dho
>>
>>
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Fonts
2009-07-08 19:00 [9fans] Fonts Devon H. O'Dell
2009-07-08 19:11 ` Joseph Stewart
@ 2009-07-08 19:49 ` J. R. Mauro
2009-07-08 19:49 ` Bakul Shah
` (2 subsequent siblings)
4 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: J. R. Mauro @ 2009-07-08 19:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs; +Cc: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
On Jul 8, 2009, at 15:00, "Devon H. O'Dell" <devon.odell@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I have very little idea about these fuckers. I know there are
> baselines and ideas about m's and n's and kerning and whatnot.
>
> But how do you make them? I played with some TTF font generators about
> 10 years ago that I'm sure I illegally obtained somehow, but I realize
> that I have zero idea of how fonts are designed and packaged. Does
> anybody know anything about how fonts are created and packaged (info
> on subfonts would be great, info on TTF would be interesting).
>
> --dho
>
TeX fonts are done in METAFONT, a system that describes fonts in terms
of bezier curves, brush and eraser strokes. Not very popular amongst
people who suck at math.
AFAIK, most fonts are just drawn and converted to bitmaps.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Fonts
2009-07-08 19:00 [9fans] Fonts Devon H. O'Dell
2009-07-08 19:11 ` Joseph Stewart
2009-07-08 19:49 ` J. R. Mauro
@ 2009-07-08 19:49 ` Bakul Shah
2009-07-08 20:05 ` Josh Wood
2009-07-08 20:23 ` Lyndon Nerenberg
4 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Bakul Shah @ 2009-07-08 19:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
> But how do you make them? I played with some TTF font generators about
> 10 years ago that I'm sure I illegally obtained somehow, but I realize
> that I have zero idea of how fonts are designed and packaged. Does
> anybody know anything about how fonts are created and packaged (info
> on subfonts would be great, info on TTF would be interesting).
Start with fontforge & its wikipedia page. What exactly are
you trying to do? Tengwar has already been done :-)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Fonts
2009-07-08 19:00 [9fans] Fonts Devon H. O'Dell
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2009-07-08 19:49 ` Bakul Shah
@ 2009-07-08 20:05 ` Josh Wood
2009-07-08 20:14 ` erik quanstrom
2009-07-08 20:15 ` J. R. Mauro
2009-07-08 20:23 ` Lyndon Nerenberg
4 siblings, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Josh Wood @ 2009-07-08 20:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
On Jul 8, 2009, at 12:00 PM, Devon H. O'Dell wrote:
> Does
> anybody know anything about how fonts are created and packaged (info
> on subfonts would be great, info on TTF would be interesting).
Fontforge is the way I know about, also, and will give you a process
something like drawing your font, or even modifying one of the handful
of 'open-source' fonts, like Inconsolata. There is a ttf2subf program
(http://mirtchovski.com/p9/freetype/) that will, I think, convert the
Fontforge product for Plan 9. Erik has used that program or similar
to convert Inconsolata, for example, and some other font-related work
may be in his contrib directory.
-Josh
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Fonts
2009-07-08 20:05 ` Josh Wood
@ 2009-07-08 20:14 ` erik quanstrom
2009-07-08 20:15 ` J. R. Mauro
1 sibling, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: erik quanstrom @ 2009-07-08 20:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 9fans
> Fontforge is the way I know about, also, and will give you a process
> something like drawing your font, or even modifying one of the handful
> of 'open-source' fonts, like Inconsolata. There is a ttf2subf program
> (http://mirtchovski.com/p9/freetype/) that will, I think, convert the
> Fontforge product for Plan 9. Erik has used that program or similar
> to convert Inconsolata, for example, and some other font-related work
> may be in his contrib directory.
s/may be/is. it's the contrib package quanstro/icons
terrible name.
- erik
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Fonts
2009-07-08 20:05 ` Josh Wood
2009-07-08 20:14 ` erik quanstrom
@ 2009-07-08 20:15 ` J. R. Mauro
2009-07-08 20:44 ` erik quanstrom
2009-07-08 20:50 ` John Floren
1 sibling, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: J. R. Mauro @ 2009-07-08 20:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs; +Cc: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
On Jul 8, 2009, at 16:05, Josh Wood <josh@utopian.net> wrote:
>
> On Jul 8, 2009, at 12:00 PM, Devon H. O'Dell wrote:
>> Does
>> anybody know anything about how fonts are created and packaged (info
>> on subfonts would be great, info on TTF would be interesting).
>
> Fontforge is the way I know about, also, and will give you a process
> something like drawing your font, or even modifying one of the handful
> of 'open-source' fonts, like Inconsolata. There is a ttf2subf program
> (http://mirtchovski.com/p9/freetype/) that will, I think, convert the
> Fontforge product for Plan 9. Erik has used that program or similar
> to convert Inconsolata, for example, and some other font-related work
> may be in his contrib directory.
>
> -Josh
>
Speaking of that, is there a way to do the reverse, to get plan 9
Bigelow fonts that Linux can use? I'm sick of my browser not knowing
that the character left of the 1 on my keyboard is an open-quote.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Fonts
2009-07-08 19:00 [9fans] Fonts Devon H. O'Dell
` (3 preceding siblings ...)
2009-07-08 20:05 ` Josh Wood
@ 2009-07-08 20:23 ` Lyndon Nerenberg
4 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Lyndon Nerenberg @ 2009-07-08 20:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
> But how do you make them? I played with some TTF font generators about
> 10 years ago that I'm sure I illegally obtained somehow, but I realize
> that I have zero idea of how fonts are designed and packaged. Does
> anybody know anything about how fonts are created and packaged (info
> on subfonts would be great, info on TTF would be interesting).
Microsoft has some surprisingly good information at
http://www.microsoft.com/typography.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Fonts
2009-07-08 20:15 ` J. R. Mauro
@ 2009-07-08 20:44 ` erik quanstrom
2009-07-08 21:44 ` J.R. Mauro
2009-07-08 20:50 ` John Floren
1 sibling, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: erik quanstrom @ 2009-07-08 20:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 9fans
> Speaking of that, is there a way to do the reverse, to get plan 9
> Bigelow fonts that Linux can use? I'm sick of my browser not knowing
> that the character left of the 1 on my keyboard is an open-quote.
maybe this is your problem:
; unicode '`'
0060
; look 0060 /lib/unicode
0060 grave accent
unicode says it's a grave accent, not an open quote.
but i always called that a "tick".
perhaps this is what you mean?
; grep '(left|right) single quot' /lib/unicode
2018 left single quotation mark
2019 right single quotation mark
- erik
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Fonts
2009-07-08 20:15 ` J. R. Mauro
2009-07-08 20:44 ` erik quanstrom
@ 2009-07-08 20:50 ` John Floren
2009-07-08 21:42 ` J.R. Mauro
1 sibling, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: John Floren @ 2009-07-08 20:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 1:15 PM, J. R. Mauro<jrm8005@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 8, 2009, at 16:05, Josh Wood <josh@utopian.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Jul 8, 2009, at 12:00 PM, Devon H. O'Dell wrote:
>>>
>>> Does
>>> anybody know anything about how fonts are created and packaged (info
>>> on subfonts would be great, info on TTF would be interesting).
>>
>> Fontforge is the way I know about, also, and will give you a process
>> something like drawing your font, or even modifying one of the handful
>> of 'open-source' fonts, like Inconsolata. There is a ttf2subf program
>> (http://mirtchovski.com/p9/freetype/) that will, I think, convert the
>> Fontforge product for Plan 9. Erik has used that program or similar
>> to convert Inconsolata, for example, and some other font-related work
>> may be in his contrib directory.
>>
>> -Josh
>>
>
> Speaking of that, is there a way to do the reverse, to get plan 9 Bigelow
> fonts that Linux can use? I'm sick of my browser not knowing that the
> character left of the 1 on my keyboard is an open-quote.
>
>
Remember, only heathens use ` to begin a quote.
The enlightened use ' and " for all kinds of single and double quotes,
because you can copy/paste them anywhere and everybody sees them
properly. Also, few things in the world look worse than seeing a quote
done ``like this'' in a monospace font.
John
--
"I've tried programming Ruby on Rails, following TechCrunch in my RSS
reader, and drinking absinthe. It doesn't work. I'm going back to C,
Hunter S. Thompson, and cheap whiskey." -- Ted Dziuba
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Fonts
2009-07-08 20:50 ` John Floren
@ 2009-07-08 21:42 ` J.R. Mauro
2009-07-08 21:47 ` erik quanstrom
0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: J.R. Mauro @ 2009-07-08 21:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 4:50 PM, John Floren<slawmaster@gmail.com> wrote:
> Remember, only heathens use ` to begin a quote.
>
> The enlightened use ' and " for all kinds of single and double quotes,
> because you can copy/paste them anywhere and everybody sees them
> properly. Also, few things in the world look worse than seeing a quote
> done ``like this'' in a monospace font.
>
Pff, I'm not a heather, I'm a TeX user. Dumb quotes are just that.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Fonts
2009-07-08 20:44 ` erik quanstrom
@ 2009-07-08 21:44 ` J.R. Mauro
2009-07-08 21:51 ` erik quanstrom
0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: J.R. Mauro @ 2009-07-08 21:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 4:44 PM, erik quanstrom<quanstro@coraid.com> wrote:
>> Speaking of that, is there a way to do the reverse, to get plan 9
>> Bigelow fonts that Linux can use? I'm sick of my browser not knowing
>> that the character left of the 1 on my keyboard is an open-quote.
>
> maybe this is your problem:
>
> ; unicode '`'
> 0060
> ; look 0060 /lib/unicode
> 0060 grave accent
>
> unicode says it's a grave accent, not an open quote.
> but i always called that a "tick".
>
> perhaps this is what you mean?
>
> ; grep '(left|right) single quot' /lib/unicode
> 2018 left single quotation mark
> 2019 right single quotation mark
>
> - erik
>
>
Yes, but with all the work in Acme and Sam, I've become quite
accustomed to having ` look nice. It just makes the browser look out
of place. It's not just the tick either, I'd like the browser font to
generally look the same.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Fonts
2009-07-08 21:42 ` J.R. Mauro
@ 2009-07-08 21:47 ` erik quanstrom
2009-07-08 21:49 ` J.R. Mauro
0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: erik quanstrom @ 2009-07-08 21:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 9fans
> > The enlightened use ' and " for all kinds of single and double quotes,
> > because you can copy/paste them anywhere and everybody sees them
> > properly. Also, few things in the world look worse than seeing a quote
> > done ``like this'' in a monospace font.
> >
>
> Pff, I'm not a heather, I'm a TeX user. Dumb quotes are just that.
my terminal doesn't do \TeX. does yours?\p
\vskip 1em
--- erik
\bye
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Fonts
2009-07-08 21:47 ` erik quanstrom
@ 2009-07-08 21:49 ` J.R. Mauro
0 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: J.R. Mauro @ 2009-07-08 21:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 5:47 PM, erik quanstrom<quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
>> > The enlightened use ' and " for all kinds of single and double quotes,
>> > because you can copy/paste them anywhere and everybody sees them
>> > properly. Also, few things in the world look worse than seeing a quote
>> > done ``like this'' in a monospace font.
>> >
>>
>> Pff, I'm not a heather, I'm a TeX user. Dumb quotes are just that.
>
> my terminal doesn't do \TeX. does yours?\p
> \vskip 1em
> --- erik
> \bye
>
>
Nah, I just parse it in my head.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Fonts
2009-07-08 21:44 ` J.R. Mauro
@ 2009-07-08 21:51 ` erik quanstrom
2009-07-08 22:21 ` J.R. Mauro
2009-07-09 2:21 ` Ethan Grammatikidis
0 siblings, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: erik quanstrom @ 2009-07-08 21:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 9fans
> Yes, but with all the work in Acme and Sam, I've become quite
> accustomed to having ` look nice. It just makes the browser look out
> of place. It's not just the tick either, I'd like the browser font to
> generally look the same.
that's hard. i haven't found one yet that looks good in
both a browser and in plan 9. i use code2000. but i would
buy a "better" font, if there were one available.
i use the vera fonts in abaco (the fonts are also available
for linux) but the coverage is very poor. π is the only
greek letter available.
- erik
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Fonts
2009-07-08 21:51 ` erik quanstrom
@ 2009-07-08 22:21 ` J.R. Mauro
2009-07-09 2:21 ` Ethan Grammatikidis
1 sibling, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: J.R. Mauro @ 2009-07-08 22:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 5:51 PM, erik quanstrom<quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
>> Yes, but with all the work in Acme and Sam, I've become quite
>> accustomed to having ` look nice. It just makes the browser look out
>> of place. It's not just the tick either, I'd like the browser font to
>> generally look the same.
>
> that's hard. i haven't found one yet that looks good in
> both a browser and in plan 9. i use code2000. but i would
> buy a "better" font, if there were one available.
>
> i use the vera fonts in abaco (the fonts are also available
> for linux) but the coverage is very poor. π is the only
> greek letter available.
>
> - erik
>
>
There are no ttf/Xft/$format versions of the Bigelow and Holmes lucida
fonts? The Ludica typefaces available on Linux are definitely not the
same -- much poorer quality.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Fonts
2009-07-08 21:51 ` erik quanstrom
2009-07-08 22:21 ` J.R. Mauro
@ 2009-07-09 2:21 ` Ethan Grammatikidis
2009-07-09 3:17 ` erik quanstrom
1 sibling, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Ethan Grammatikidis @ 2009-07-09 2:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 9fans
On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 17:51:58 -0400
erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
> i use the vera fonts in abaco (the fonts are also available
> for linux) but the coverage is very poor. π is the only
> greek letter available.
Which vera font? I just looked up http://google.gr/ in Firefox & pasted the text into a terminal using Bitstream Vera Sans Mono & don't see any missing letters. Nor do I if I set the font to Bitstream Vera Sans or Serif, or Bitstream Charter.
Odd thing is if I use hget or curl to get the page I get a lot of nulls. The page is encoded in utf-8 so I don't know what the google.gr servers might be doing.
--
Ethan Grammatikidis
Those who are slower at parsing information must
necessarily be faster at problem-solving.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Fonts
2009-07-09 2:21 ` Ethan Grammatikidis
@ 2009-07-09 3:17 ` erik quanstrom
2009-07-09 5:25 ` Russ Cox
2009-07-09 10:02 ` Ethan Grammatikidis
0 siblings, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: erik quanstrom @ 2009-07-09 3:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 9fans
> Which vera font? I just looked up http://google.gr/ in Firefox & pasted the text into a terminal using Bitstream Vera Sans Mono & don't see any missing letters. Nor do I if I set the font to Bitstream Vera Sans or Serif, or Bitstream Charter
i don't recall. the date on the original conversion from .ttf is 2005.
> Odd thing is if I use hget or curl to get the page I get a lot of nulls. The page is encoded in utf-8 so I don't know what the google.gr servers might be doing.
; hget http://google.gr/
<!doctype html><html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-7">
i'm pretty sure that ISO-8859-7 != utf-8.
- erik
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Fonts
2009-07-09 3:17 ` erik quanstrom
@ 2009-07-09 5:25 ` Russ Cox
2009-07-09 10:10 ` Ethan Grammatikidis
2009-07-15 21:01 ` David Leimbach
2009-07-09 10:02 ` Ethan Grammatikidis
1 sibling, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Russ Cox @ 2009-07-09 5:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
This conversation reminded me that I have been
meaning to clean up a program I wrote a while back
and integrate it into plan9port. It generates Plan 9
bitmap fonts on demand using the native window
system fonts. Right now it only works on OS X.
I would gladly accept X11 support and OS X bug fixes.
FONTSRV(4) FONTSRV(4)
NAME
fontsrv - file system access to host fonts
SYNOPSIS
fontsrv [ -m mtpt ] [ -s srvname ]
fontsrv -p path
DESCRIPTION
Fontsrv presents the host window system's fonts in the stan-
dard Plan 9 format (see font(7)). It serves a virtual direc-
tory tree mounted at mtpt (if the -m option is given) and
posted at srvname (default font).
The -p option changes fontsrv's behavior: rather than serve
a file system, fontsrv prints to standard output the con-
tents of the named path. If path names a directory in the
served file system, fontsrv lists the directory's contents.
The fonts are arranged in a two-level tree. The root con-
tains directories named for each system font. Each font
directory contains subdirectories named for a point size and
whether the subfonts are anti-aliased: 10 (bitmap) 10a
(anti-aliased greyscale) 12, 12a, and so on. The font
directory will synthesize additional sizes on demand: look-
ing up 19a will synthesize the 19-point anti-aliased size if
possible. Each size directory contains a font file and sub-
font files named x0000.bit, x0100.bit, and so on represent-
ing 256-character Unicode ranges.
Openfont (see graphics(3)) recognizes font paths beginning
with /mnt/font and implements them by invoking fontsrv; it
need not be running already.
EXAMPLES
List the fonts on the system:
% fontsrv &
% 9p ls font
or:
% fontsrv -p .
Run acme(1) using the operating system's Monaco as the
fixed-width font:
% acme -F /mnt/font/Monaco/13a/font
Run sam(1) using the same font:
% font=/mnt/font/Monaco/13a/font sam
SOURCE
/usr/local/plan9/src/cmd/fontsrv
SEE ALSO
font(7)
BUGS
Due to OS X restrictions, fontsrv does not fork itself into
the background when serving a user-level file system.
Fontsrv has no support for X11 fonts; on X11 systems, it
will serve an empty top-level directory.
On OS X, the anti-aliased bitmaps are not perfect. For
example, the lower case r in the subfont
Times-Roman/14a/x0000.bit appears truncated on the right and
too light overall.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Fonts
2009-07-09 3:17 ` erik quanstrom
2009-07-09 5:25 ` Russ Cox
@ 2009-07-09 10:02 ` Ethan Grammatikidis
1 sibling, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Ethan Grammatikidis @ 2009-07-09 10:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 9fans
On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 23:17:22 -0400
erik quanstrom <quanstro@quanstro.net> wrote:
> > Which vera font? I just looked up http://google.gr/ in Firefox & pasted the text into a terminal using Bitstream Vera Sans Mono & don't see any missing letters. Nor do I if I set the font to Bitstream Vera Sans or Serif, or Bitstream Charter
>
> i don't recall. the date on the original conversion from .ttf is 2005.
>
> > Odd thing is if I use hget or curl to get the page I get a lot of nulls. The page is encoded in utf-8 so I don't know what the google.gr servers might be doing.
>
> ; hget http://google.gr/
> <!doctype html><html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-7">
>
> i'm pretty sure that ISO-8859-7 != utf-8.
I guess that's server-side mucking about based on user-agent not reporting utf-8 capability or something stupid. Firefox page info feature reports the page as utf-8, and on inspection of the source:
<!doctype html><html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
I wonder if there's some 'prefered encoding' message the UA can send to the server.
--
Ethan Grammatikidis
Those who are slower at parsing information must
necessarily be faster at problem-solving.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Fonts
2009-07-09 5:25 ` Russ Cox
@ 2009-07-09 10:10 ` Ethan Grammatikidis
2009-07-15 21:01 ` David Leimbach
1 sibling, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Ethan Grammatikidis @ 2009-07-09 10:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 9fans
On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 22:25:17 -0700
Russ Cox <rsc@swtch.com> wrote:
> This conversation reminded me that I have been
> meaning to clean up a program I wrote a while back
> and integrate it into plan9port. It generates Plan 9
> bitmap fonts on demand using the native window
> system fonts. Right now it only works on OS X.
> I would gladly accept X11 support and OS X bug fixes.
Nifty idea but I have to ask what kind of X11 font support? There is the original old-school X font service, but it seems few actively-developed apps use that now. Most rely on fontconfig which only works with direct use of freetype by the application, or something like that. The two systems may be configured with completely different font paths at any rate. Modern yewnicks is _fun_. *shudders*
--
Ethan Grammatikidis
Those who are slower at parsing information must
necessarily be faster at problem-solving.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Fonts
2009-07-09 5:25 ` Russ Cox
2009-07-09 10:10 ` Ethan Grammatikidis
@ 2009-07-15 21:01 ` David Leimbach
2009-07-15 21:34 ` Russ Cox
1 sibling, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: David Leimbach @ 2009-07-15 21:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
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Just tried this from the mercurial snapshot from last night.
fontsrv appears to work but complains about fuse not being set up properly.
Does this mean acme is not going to work?
Should I be asking this on the plan9port mailing list?
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 10:25 PM, Russ Cox <rsc@swtch.com> wrote:
> This conversation reminded me that I have been
> meaning to clean up a program I wrote a while back
> and integrate it into plan9port. It generates Plan 9
> bitmap fonts on demand using the native window
> system fonts. Right now it only works on OS X.
> I would gladly accept X11 support and OS X bug fixes.
>
>
> FONTSRV(4) FONTSRV(4)
>
> NAME
> fontsrv - file system access to host fonts
>
> SYNOPSIS
> fontsrv [ -m mtpt ] [ -s srvname ]
>
> fontsrv -p path
>
> DESCRIPTION
> Fontsrv presents the host window system's fonts in the stan-
> dard Plan 9 format (see font(7)). It serves a virtual direc-
> tory tree mounted at mtpt (if the -m option is given) and
> posted at srvname (default font).
>
> The -p option changes fontsrv's behavior: rather than serve
> a file system, fontsrv prints to standard output the con-
> tents of the named path. If path names a directory in the
> served file system, fontsrv lists the directory's contents.
>
> The fonts are arranged in a two-level tree. The root con-
> tains directories named for each system font. Each font
> directory contains subdirectories named for a point size and
> whether the subfonts are anti-aliased: 10 (bitmap) 10a
> (anti-aliased greyscale) 12, 12a, and so on. The font
> directory will synthesize additional sizes on demand: look-
> ing up 19a will synthesize the 19-point anti-aliased size if
> possible. Each size directory contains a font file and sub-
> font files named x0000.bit, x0100.bit, and so on represent-
> ing 256-character Unicode ranges.
>
> Openfont (see graphics(3)) recognizes font paths beginning
> with /mnt/font and implements them by invoking fontsrv; it
> need not be running already.
>
> EXAMPLES
> List the fonts on the system:
>
> % fontsrv &
> % 9p ls font
>
> or:
>
> % fontsrv -p .
>
> Run acme(1) using the operating system's Monaco as the
> fixed-width font:
>
> % acme -F /mnt/font/Monaco/13a/font
>
> Run sam(1) using the same font:
>
> % font=/mnt/font/Monaco/13a/font sam
>
> SOURCE
> /usr/local/plan9/src/cmd/fontsrv
>
> SEE ALSO
> font(7)
>
> BUGS
> Due to OS X restrictions, fontsrv does not fork itself into
> the background when serving a user-level file system.
>
> Fontsrv has no support for X11 fonts; on X11 systems, it
> will serve an empty top-level directory.
>
> On OS X, the anti-aliased bitmaps are not perfect. For
> example, the lower case r in the subfont
> Times-Roman/14a/x0000.bit appears truncated on the right and
> too light overall.
>
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Fonts
2009-07-15 21:01 ` David Leimbach
@ 2009-07-15 21:34 ` Russ Cox
0 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Russ Cox @ 2009-07-15 21:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 2:01 PM, David Leimbach<leimy2k@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just tried this from the mercurial snapshot from last night.
> fontsrv appears to work but complains about fuse not being set up properly.
> Does this mean acme is not going to work?
> Should I be asking this on the plan9port mailing list?
No, yes, moved there.
Russ
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Fonts
2009-07-09 15:43 Chad Brown
@ 2009-07-09 15:55 ` Federico G. Benavento
0 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Federico G. Benavento @ 2009-07-09 15:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
ie=utf-8 works fine
On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 12:43 PM, Chad Brown<yandros@mit.edu> wrote:
> On Jul 9, 2009, at 3:02 AM, Ethan Grammatikidis wrote:
>
> ; hget http://google.gr/
>
> <!doctype html><html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type"
> content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-7">
>
> i'm pretty sure that ISO-8859-7 != utf-8.
>
> I guess that's server-side mucking about based on user-agent not reporting
> utf-8 capability or something stupid. Firefox page info feature reports the
> page as utf-8, and on inspection of the source:
>
> <!doctype html><html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type"
> content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
>
> I wonder if there's some 'prefered encoding' message the UA can send to the
> server.
>
> Accept-Charset is the http header that you want, but to do it `right' you
> probably want to muck about with http's q-value weighting system. The
> shorter form is that you'll have to tell the server you're ok with UTF, or
> it'll fall back to it's best-guess techniques, with the default fallback of
> iso-8859.
>
> *Chad
>
--
Federico G. Benavento
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Fonts
@ 2009-07-09 15:43 Chad Brown
2009-07-09 15:55 ` Federico G. Benavento
0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Chad Brown @ 2009-07-09 15:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
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On Jul 9, 2009, at 3:02 AM, Ethan Grammatikidis wrote:
>>> ; hget http://google.gr/
>> <!doctype html><html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type"
>> content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-7">
>>
>> i'm pretty sure that ISO-8859-7 != utf-8.
>
> I guess that's server-side mucking about based on user-agent not
> reporting utf-8 capability or something stupid. Firefox page info
> feature reports the page as utf-8, and on inspection of the source:
>
> <!doctype html><html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type"
> content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
>
> I wonder if there's some 'prefered encoding' message the UA can send
> to the server.
Accept-Charset is the http header that you want, but to do it `right'
you probably want to muck about with http's q-value weighting system.
The shorter form is that you'll have to tell the server you're ok with
UTF, or it'll fall back to it's best-guess techniques, with the
default fallback of iso-8859.
*Chad
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Fonts
2002-01-07 18:41 Russ Cox
@ 2002-01-07 20:16 ` Fariborz Tavakkolian
0 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Fariborz Tavakkolian @ 2002-01-07 20:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 9fans
My immediate goal was to import bitmaps of the glyphs in Farsi
alphabet and to fillin the fonts in those unicode ranges. Longer term
goal is to import the curve descriptions for scaling of the glyphs (MAYBE).
Later it might be useful to import things like OpenType's shaping
information (sounds more grandiose than it is). These are intstructions
for writing systems like Arabic, where, depending on a letter's location in
a word, one of upto 4 character variations can be used.
On second thought, it seems that "shaping" would properly belong in the
editing or input mechanism, as would the support for writing right-to-left.
At 01:41 PM 1/7/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>I don't think it would be too hard to adapt FreeType
>to be used to provide access to TrueType and Type1 fonts.
>The main issue that I don't understand is how to properly
>handle the Unicode character set; surely there is some
>comment inside the font files telling the encoding, and I
>expect you'd end up using description files just like we
>have today (cat $font).
>
>X bitmap fonts should be a bit easier -- just convert
>them into Plan 9 images, reorder the characters appropriately,
>and write a description file.
>
>For very small and even normal-sized terminal fonts,
>I think the Lucida fonts that Plan 9 uses are the clearest
>choice you've got, although I can imagine that if you
>wanted to write a WYSIAYG editor of sorts, you'd need
>some sort of rescalable fonts.
>
>Russ
>
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Fonts
@ 2002-01-07 19:04 forsyth
0 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: forsyth @ 2002-01-07 19:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 9fans
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i had an older freetype running under older plan 9
several years ago. i'm currently making freetype 2
work. the freetype library is done but i'm still converting
the older freetype conversion program. the freetype
interface has changed quite a bit and the documentation
i've got is less helpful than manual pages, and the example
i used last time hasn't yet been updated.
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To: 9fans@cse.psu.edu
Subject: Re: [9fans] Fonts
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 13:41:28 -0500
Message-ID: <20020107184129.B19A719A02@mail.cse.psu.edu>
I don't think it would be too hard to adapt FreeType
to be used to provide access to TrueType and Type1 fonts.
The main issue that I don't understand is how to properly
handle the Unicode character set; surely there is some
comment inside the font files telling the encoding, and I
expect you'd end up using description files just like we
have today (cat $font).
X bitmap fonts should be a bit easier -- just convert
them into Plan 9 images, reorder the characters appropriately,
and write a description file.
For very small and even normal-sized terminal fonts,
I think the Lucida fonts that Plan 9 uses are the clearest
choice you've got, although I can imagine that if you
wanted to write a WYSIAYG editor of sorts, you'd need
some sort of rescalable fonts.
Russ
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: [9fans] Fonts
@ 2002-01-07 18:41 Russ Cox
2002-01-07 20:16 ` Fariborz Tavakkolian
0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Russ Cox @ 2002-01-07 18:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 9fans
I don't think it would be too hard to adapt FreeType
to be used to provide access to TrueType and Type1 fonts.
The main issue that I don't understand is how to properly
handle the Unicode character set; surely there is some
comment inside the font files telling the encoding, and I
expect you'd end up using description files just like we
have today (cat $font).
X bitmap fonts should be a bit easier -- just convert
them into Plan 9 images, reorder the characters appropriately,
and write a description file.
For very small and even normal-sized terminal fonts,
I think the Lucida fonts that Plan 9 uses are the clearest
choice you've got, although I can imagine that if you
wanted to write a WYSIAYG editor of sorts, you'd need
some sort of rescalable fonts.
Russ
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* [9fans] Fonts
@ 2002-01-07 9:38 skipt
0 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: skipt @ 2002-01-07 9:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 9fans
Is there a way to import TrueType fonts? How about X .bdf's?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2009-07-15 21:34 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 30+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2009-07-08 19:00 [9fans] Fonts Devon H. O'Dell
2009-07-08 19:11 ` Joseph Stewart
2009-07-08 19:11 ` Joseph Stewart
2009-07-08 19:49 ` J. R. Mauro
2009-07-08 19:49 ` Bakul Shah
2009-07-08 20:05 ` Josh Wood
2009-07-08 20:14 ` erik quanstrom
2009-07-08 20:15 ` J. R. Mauro
2009-07-08 20:44 ` erik quanstrom
2009-07-08 21:44 ` J.R. Mauro
2009-07-08 21:51 ` erik quanstrom
2009-07-08 22:21 ` J.R. Mauro
2009-07-09 2:21 ` Ethan Grammatikidis
2009-07-09 3:17 ` erik quanstrom
2009-07-09 5:25 ` Russ Cox
2009-07-09 10:10 ` Ethan Grammatikidis
2009-07-15 21:01 ` David Leimbach
2009-07-15 21:34 ` Russ Cox
2009-07-09 10:02 ` Ethan Grammatikidis
2009-07-08 20:50 ` John Floren
2009-07-08 21:42 ` J.R. Mauro
2009-07-08 21:47 ` erik quanstrom
2009-07-08 21:49 ` J.R. Mauro
2009-07-08 20:23 ` Lyndon Nerenberg
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2009-07-09 15:43 Chad Brown
2009-07-09 15:55 ` Federico G. Benavento
2002-01-07 19:04 forsyth
2002-01-07 18:41 Russ Cox
2002-01-07 20:16 ` Fariborz Tavakkolian
2002-01-07 9:38 skipt
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